Is 'CovBackToRicoh' really a 'LetSisuHaveTheRicoh' Campaign? (6 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

I'm not disagreeing with you here, although in their defence the bloke on the radio last night said they did approach the Trust, and their view was 'if you want to do it, by all means go for it but we're not getting involved' (forgive the paraphrasing of remembering last night's phone-in, if wrong give me a thousand virtual beatings ).

Now personally I'd have hoped the Trust's view would have been more 'come along to our next meeting, then if you still decide you want to go ahead with it do' and maybe it was and something got lost in translation, but nonetheless...

Missed that (and can't say whether it's true or not) where would I hear the interview? Is it online anywhere?

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

Missed that (and can't say whether it's true or not) where would I hear the interview? Is it online anywhere?

It'll be the phone-in after the game yesterday.

 

[stupot07]

I never said it was, just that we have different views. I too agree that both sides are culpable to some degree, however only one actually has the power to do anything about it now. There is now no link between ACL and CCFC, if it's to be reinstated then the ball is in CCFC's court.

Michael Gove isn't culpable for everything that is wrong with education at the moment, but he sure is the most pressing concern.

I disagree, in the Q and A's ACL stated that the club had asked for a 3 year deal and ACL rejected it. When it came to the CVA ACL wanted a 10 year deal. Why don't ACL make the offer of identical terms to Northampton?


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[shmmeee]

I disagree, in the Q and A's ACL stated that the club had asked for a 3 year deal and ACL rejected it. When it came to the CVA ACL wanted a 10 year deal. Why don't ACL make the offer of identical terms to Northampton?


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Can you link to the Q&A?

Is this the Trust one before the admin proceedings or since Otium took control?

 

[skybluefred]

I don't thing they can build a new ground in time for Tuesday evening do you?

Given sisu's speed at producing plans for said new cow shed it will take till 2025 to start the foundations.

 

[stupot07]

Can you link to the Q&A?

Is this the Trust one before the admin proceedings or since Otium took control?

Here you go. Yes the one before admin. The 3 year deals is Q24.

http://www.skybluetrust.co.uk/index...-news/227-full-version-of-qaa-to-acl-and-ccfc


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[shmmeee]

Here you go. Yes the one before admin. The 3 year deals is Q24.

http://www.skybluetrust.co.uk/index...-news/227-full-version-of-qaa-to-acl-and-ccfc


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Well to be fair, at that point ACL thought they had a fairly cast iron lease agreement. Remember, we all thought CCFC Ltd was the club, none of the smoke and mirrors had appeared then. Why would ACL accept a three year deal if they thought they had 40 odd years left to run?

Besides, if you don't believe Sisu will build a ground (and it appears ACL didn't from that answer) then all a 3 year deal would do is postpone the silliness over distressing ACL for three years.

I do think though, that this comes under the heading of "sleeping dogs" and we need to look at where we are not where we were.

 

[skybluefred]

I certainly don't think SISU give a shit, but ACL? Really?

Wood & see & can't & trees.:blue:

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Well to be fair, at that point ACL thought they had a fairly cast iron lease agreement. Remember, we all thought CCFC Ltd was the club, none of the smoke and mirrors had appeared then. Why would ACL accept a three year deal if they should they had 40 odd years left to run?

That is the economic argument though, and suggests not looking out for the club as you suggested previously, but looking after own commercial interests.

As a social argument, club owning own ground in Coventry (area ) and extra leisure facility in the Ricoh is no bad thing for the city, is it?

Now I'm not surprised that they take the economic view (why shouldn't they?) but it's exactly decisions like that, that stop me taking sides. If it's one commercial company v the other in a commercial dispute, how can I take preference over who wins... beyond the club coming out more solid at the end of it all?

And yes, it might postpone it but... 3 years to sort out a better business plan going forward would have been beneficial to them commercially than what we have now, I'm sure. Even if they do sort out a plan going forward that doesn't include the club, an empty stadium probably isn't helping them maximise their opportunities!

 

[sky blue john]

Holding a question time session would be too successful & easy, which is why it will never happen!
Agree with Acl having more CCFC supporters than Sisu/Otium.

If Ricoh ever went to Sisu, I hope a
watertight contract is drawn up stating that CCFC & Ricoh are one, as what's stopping Sisu stick CCFC in one company & Ricoh in another associated & then charging a whopping rent bringing it back to square one!

We have some fans that don't care about the future of the club and will accept any cost just for the club to be back at the Ricoh !!!!!

 

[stupot07]

Well to be fair, at that point ACL thought they had a fairly cast iron lease agreement. Remember, we all thought CCFC Ltd was the club, none of the smoke and mirrors had appeared then. Why would ACL accept a three year deal if they thought they had 40 odd years left to run?

Besides, if you don't believe Sisu will build a ground (and it appears ACL didn't from that answer) then all a 3 year deal would do is postpone the silliness over distressing ACL for three years.

I do think though, that this comes under the heading of "sleeping dogs" and we need to look at where we are not where we were.

True, but i still think ACL could make that offer, it's too easy to say it's all in sisu's court.


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[shmmeee]

True, but i still think ACL could make that offer, it's too easy to say it's all in sisu's court.


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Who do they make it to? By all accounts Sisu won't talk to them and publicly Sisu are stating they don't want a rental deal.

That's the kicker for me, Lucas has written to Seppala, Seppala hasn't replied, Nikki Sinclaire promised to get her in a room and failed, the Trust are being ignored with requests for both sides to get together. It's easy to say "oh all sides are to blame" but only one side has ever agreed to actually talk about a new deal.

To put a positive spin on this: Personally I'd get behind two campaigns: "Offer/Accept the £150k rental deal" and "Split/Buy the football part of the Ricoh only" (also "build HR2 in the city centre" but only as a last resort)

 

[stupot07]

Who do they make it to? By all accounts Sisu won't talk to them and publicly Sisu are stating they don't want a rental deal.

That's the kicker for me, Lucas has written to Seppala, Seppala hasn't replied, Nikki Sinclaire promised to get her in a room and failed, the Trust are being ignored with requests for both sides to get together. It's easy to say "oh all sides are to blame" but only one side has ever agreed to actually talk about a new deal.

They put it in writing to the club. Like I said its easy to make excuses for ACL, there is nothing to stop them trying to make the first move.

To be honest the Trust took a very anti- sisu stance until recently so I can see why they might not want to engage with the trust.



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[Deleted member 5849]

Who do they make it to? By all accounts Sisu won't talk to them and publicly Sisu are stating they don't want a rental deal.

Instead of the 'woman to woman' thing, wouldn't an open letter have been better served calling the bluff, apologising for certain positions in the past, and saying they'd match the Northampton deal at the Ricoh?

As of yet, no offer has actually been made, it's always been filtered through prisms where it's not as it seems. it does, I hesitate to say, look like a bit of politicking to win over public opinion than actual genuine offers (and it's here where I can see why you might lose patience and say you can't work with the council anymore).

If it *is* a bluff, then saying you'll match the Northampton offer, and saying you'll help the club find a suitable site so it can build its own ground and not have to work with the council again (if it can't, as Seppala claims) surely stops the subterfuge?

 

[skybluefred]

So we stay at Sixfields then?

Only until sisu see sense and do one.:blue:

 

[covmark]

Only until sisu see sense and do one.:blue:

doesn't seem likely atm

 

[shmmeee]

Instead of the 'woman to woman' thing, wouldn't an open letter have been better served calling the bluff, apologising for certain positions in the past, and saying they'd match the Northampton deal at the Ricoh?

As of yet, no offer has actually been made, it's always been filtered through prisms where it's not as it seems. it does, I hesitate to say, look like a bit of politicking to win over public opinion than actual genuine offers (and it's here where I can see why you might lose patience and say you can't work with the council anymore).

If it *is* a bluff, then saying you'll match the Northampton offer, and saying you'll help the club find a suitable site so it can build its own ground and not have to work with the council again (if it can't, as Seppala claims) surely stops the subterfuge?

They put it in writing to the club. Like I said its easy to make excuses for ACL, there is nothing to stop them trying to make the first move.

To be honest the Trust took a very anti- sisu stance until recently so I can see why they might not want to engage with the trust.



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I agree with both of you, the Council do themselves no favours in terms of PR. I hope upon hope that Lucas will come out and talk to the protest on Monday, but I doubt it.

Like I said, I'd get behind a "Offer/Accept £150k deal" protest, now THAT is a truly neutral position.

 

[Nick]

I agree with both of you, the Council do themselves no favours in terms of PR. I hope upon hope that Lucas will come out and talk to the protest on Monday, but I doubt it.

Like I said, I'd get behind a "Offer/Accept £150k deal" protest, now THAT is a truly neutral position.

If she came out and said how it was and what has been offered you can't say fairer than that can you? Then we could really see what is going on.

 

[shmmeee]

doesn't seem likely atm

I disagree, time moves slowly on the Internet, but in reality Sisu have shifted position in a matter of months, with the focus now on owning the Ricoh (perhaps they realised they won't get the ground built?). And movement, however small, in the right direction is progress.

This latest campaign has been going barely a week, give them until Christmas at least before deciding they won't go anywhere.

 

[shmmeee]

If she came out and said how it was and what has been offered you can't say fairer than that can you? Then we could really see what is going on.

Agreed. Shall we start a campaign group?

 

[Nick]

Agreed. Shall we start a campaign group?

Why not? We could surely make a joke of lucas sounding like ass? See what I did?

Not enough fans groups.

 

[shmmeee]

Why not? We could surely make a joke of lucas sounding like ass? See what I did?

Not enough fans groups.

#Accept/OfferTheRentDeal it is, I'll get the press release together...

 

[Astute]

It was good to read this thread. People that can't normally even say anything without sniping at each other have just had a decent debate. I hope we can keep it up.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I agree with both of you, the Council do themselves no favours in terms of PR. I hope upon hope that Lucas will come out and talk to the protest on Monday.

She'll be a day early if she does!

 

[shmmeee]

She'll be a day early if she does!

Like I said, they can't do anything right in terms of PR that council...

 

[Cheshire Sky Blue]

Like who?

The fans, they are the only wholly innocent party in the issue. Yes, there are issues about how ccc & ACL have managed things in the past, but I genuinely believe that any anti CCC / ACL campaign only serves to make SISU stronger. And as we have found out to our lasting detriment, even a weak SISU is lethal if you are a Coventry City Fan.

 

[covmark]

I disagree, time moves slowly on the Internet, but in reality Sisu have shifted position in a matter of months, with the focus now on owning the Ricoh (perhaps they realised they won't get the ground built?). And movement, however small, in the right direction is progress.

This latest campaign has been going barely a week, give them until Christmas at least before deciding they won't go anywhere.

I hope you are right, but I just can't see them walking away so easily.

 

[Jack Griffin]

True, but i still think ACL could make that offer, it's too easy to say it's all in sisu's court.

I think SISU's JR is stymieing any such public offer. Hopefully ACL & CCC will make a few public statements to clarify the position once it is chucked out of court, but I can't see them saying anything till after Nov 28th.

 

[shmmeee]

I hope you are right, but I just can't see them walking away so easily.

Oh I didn't say it'd be easy. I expect all the kicking and screaming you'd get from a small toddler as that's how Sisu play ball. But just like with a toddler the trick is to stick your course and ignore the tantrums.

 

[stupot07]

I agree with both of you, the Council do themselves no favours in terms of PR. I hope upon hope that Lucas will come out and talk to the protest on Monday, but I doubt it.

Like I said, I'd get behind a "Offer/Accept £150k deal" protest, now THAT is a truly neutral position.

Yeah, I would also back that as an interim measure.


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[shmmeee]

I think SISU's JR is stymieing any such public offer. Hopefully ACL & CCC will make a few public statements to clarify the position once it is chucked out of court, but I can't see them saying anything till after Nov 28th.

This is a fair point, I'm not sure how much they actually can't say from a legal position, but I'd imagine that, knowing lawyers, they've been advised to say nothing to be safe.

The JR decision can't come quick enough, it's a real road block in terms of sensible negotiations.

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah, I would also back that as an interim measure.


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I think most people would. Even if we end up with a new stadium, why put the fans through this torment in the mean time? A 3 year deal (worst case) gives everyone a chance to plan for the future, whatever that means.

 

[skybluefred]

Absolutely agree with you on "one size fits all", listen to this excellent Ken Robinson talk for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

Unfortunately, as a teacher I'm being told to ignore that idea and all existing research so that we can have a system Gove has in his head where kids all do the same thing and learn by rote.

And with the meeting of CCFC and education policy I'm out of here before my blood pressure explodes

shmmeee, Many thanks for posting that link. I have a great grandson who suffers with ADHD and that is a great help.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

I have to agree with you on this one Nick

I still don't see the need for more splinter groups

 

[shmmeee]

shmmeee, Many thanks for posting that link. I have a great grandson who suffers with ADHD and that is a great help.

Just remember that the school system is by no means a measure of a child's potential or likely success. A loving, supportive home is the biggest factor. We leave so many good kids behind and make them think they are worthless because they don't perform certain tasks well at a certain age. It's more important to find something the kid loves and focus their attention there than to worry too much about the academic route, unless you're wed to the idea of University, but it's not for a large portion of people.