Annoyance is Growing (13 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

We'll have to agree to disagree here. I think a deal would be done somehow, maybe with a relegation and a points penalty just to prove a point, but I doubt we'd be all down the Butts for a Midland Football Combination game.

Thing is... if you're up for it, fair enough. As you know I've often bleated on tediously myself about the decreasing circles being more damaging in my view than the short, sharp, shock.

It would be one-eyed in the extreme however to deny any possibility of our club being wiped down the levels. To deny that possibility is the triumph of hope over precedent. It doesn't mean hope won't win, but it should never be relied on as the open goal.

 

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[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Honestly? I think we've had our lucky strike, and the only reason for getting that, their ineptitude.

Next time I'd say it's far more likely to be the Aldershot and Maidstone scenario, and bye-bye...

I think I'd characterise it as our "unlucky strike"

Perhaps I'm just being an optimist on this point, but after their behaviour of the last six months, I really struggle to see the FL going for the "bye bye" option.

 

[shmmeee]

Thing is... if you're up for it, fair enough. As you know I've often bleated on tediously myself about the decreasing circles being more damaging in my view than the short, sharp, shock.

It would be one-eyed in the extreme however to deny any possibility of our club being wiped down the levels. To deny that possibility is the triumph of hope over precedent. It doesn't mean hope won't win, but it should never be relied on as the open goal.

I agreed, it's a possibility, but so is Sisu bulldozing the Ricoh and 100 other possibilities.

Personally I don't think it's likely and even if it did happen, I'm personally happier with that as an outcome than with my council tax subsidising Joy Seppala's bad investments. But I would understand others not wanting this or having the same ideological beliefs as me, each to their own.

And as I said before, the precedent for us is a 10 point deduction and a slap on the wrist.

Also, I'd quite like a run up the leagues

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I think I'd characterise it as our "unlucky strike"

Perhaps I'm just being an optimist on this point, but after their behaviour of the last six months, I really struggle to see the FL going for the "bye bye" option.

It's how many lives do you give somebody though. I'd say we've gone well beyond nine!

As an aside, was it just me who was surprised we got away with no deductions when we set up a new holding company (SBS&L) on SISU buying the club? To me that always looked like sharp practice as well!

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

It's how many lives do you give somebody though. I'd say we've gone well beyond nine!

As an aside, was it just me who was surprised we got away with no deductions when we set up a new holding company (SBS&L) on SISU buying the club? To me that always looked like sharp practice as well!

I think that's actually why I'm more optimistic on this point than I'd otherwise be.

Under SISU's ownership the FL have interpreted their rules to meet SISU's requirements, beyond what many (well, me anyway!) would consider to be reasonable.

If NOPM leads SISU to choose the liquidation option, then there'll be a pretty straight line back to those FL decisions - I'd like to think that with a bit of pressure exerted here and there, that could work in our favour.

But as we have previously agreed - as with so much about our club - the only certainty is that this is all very uncertain!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

the only certainty is that this is all very uncertain!

Which is where I personally feel it's dangerous to conclude 'right' or 'wrong'. At the moment all we can do is state who we are, but the wrong move could see us sleepwalking into a position of cutting our own throats.

As I say, make a decision with eyes wide open. I accept me not giving the club cash might kill it off. It's not... ideal(!) but it is a consequence. It might be that those going are the saviours after all.

But as the currently absent LordSummerisle is fond of pointing out there was a pretty big pro-SISu bandwagon initially. It would be as futile to blame those pro-SISU'ers now for the consequences as seen now, as it would be to blame any 'side' later down the line, as if the worst does happen it needs everybody possible pulling together, not pointing the finger.

But uninformed or one-eyed bandwagons concern me, for sure.

 

[shmmeee]

I had no issue with Sisu until they moved the club. Despite all the crap that went before, I actually think they've done a decent job on the pitch and not particularly worse off it than any previous board I've seen, apart from Delieu who was bat shit insane.

Now I may have been being naive previously, but I felt that their "wrong doings" were more down to what I'd call proper fan debate topics (should we sell X, should we sack Y) rather than blatant disregard for the fans.

The closest thing I can remember to moving us to Northampton was McGinnity trying to change the badge, and even he realised how stupid that was before he did it.

 

[No future with SISU]

What a prick

Normal Quote from a person who has been found to be wrong.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Which is where I personally feel it's dangerous to conclude 'right' or 'wrong'. At the moment all we can do is state who we are, but the wrong move could see us sleepwalking into a position of cutting our own throats.

As I say, make a decision with eyes wide open. I accept me not giving the club cash might kill it off. It's not... ideal(!) but it is a consequence. It might be that those going are the saviours after all.

But as the currently absent LordSummerisle is fond of pointing out there was a pretty big pro-SISu bandwagon initially. It would be as futile to blame those pro-SISU'ers now for the consequences as seen now, as it would be to blame any 'side' later down the line, as if the worst does happen it needs everybody possible pulling together, not pointing the finger.

But uninformed or one-eyed bandwagons concern me, for sure.

Can't disagree with any of that.

Except I'm not sure I remember any such posts from Lord S

 

[Sky Blues]

The closest thing I can remember to moving us to Northampton was McGinnity trying to change the badge, and even he realised how stupid that was before he did it.

IIRC, he* did it then backed down when everyone told him how stupid it was.

*or the board
(Happy to have my memory corrected if I'm wrong).

 

[James Smith]

Trying to be objective and realistic (bearing in mind I support NOPM and KCIC ) I feel the only way out of this is for ACL and CCC to sell the Ricoh to SISU - I don't want SISU as owners, but I think it is the only way out. If SISU owns the whole lot, hopefully they will then sell to someone else. I don't want a "new" tin pot Stadium. Unless SISU own the Ricoh we are stuck with them - and Northampton. Hurts me to say this, but pressure should also be put equally on ACL, CCC and SISU.

So how much is the Freehold worth and what is the value of ACL and do we think SISU will pay that much or anything close to that? I doubt and I will wait to see if SISU prove me wrong, that even if they were offered both for half price it would still be too much. They would still think themselves being better off building a new ground.

 

[Grendel]

Normal Quote from a person who has been found to be wrong.

Hardly - and the comment was deserved. If the best anyone can do is say your Tim Fisher - that's an appropriate remark.

 

[Grendel]

So how much is the Freehold worth and what is the value of ACL and do we think SISU will pay that much or anything close to that? I doubt and I will wait to see if SISU prove me wrong, that even if they were offered both for half price it would still be too much. They would still think themselves being better off building a new ground.

This point you keep making is ignoring the point made by VOR though isn't it.

 

[shmmeee]

This point you keep making is ignoring the point made by VOR though isn't it.

OK so where's the line? Sale at any cost? Market value? Whose valuation do you take? With or without the club?

By definition, would Sisu be willing to pay market value if their entire plan is based around selling the club + stadium to recoup their investment?

 

[Nick]

OK so where's the line? Sale at any cost? Market value? Whose valuation do you take? With or without the club?

By definition, would Sisu be willing to pay market value if their entire plan is based around selling the club + stadium to recoup their investment?

Surely take 3 independent valuations and average them?

 

[shmmeee]

Surely take 3 independent valuations and average them?

With or without the club in place?

Also, what kind of average? If mean then one low valuation skews the others (similarly one high one).

For the whole stadium or just the football bit? With or without ACL as a business?

Not being antagonistic, but these questions need to be cleared up. It's not as simple as "sell the Ricoh".

Personally I'd like to see an independent valuation of the bowl only (not the casino/development land) and see the Council sell that. But as I've said I have a funny feeling that the football bit isn't what Sisu want.

 

[Nick]

With or without the club in place?

I'd say without as the club aren't in place.

 

[shmmeee]

I'd say without as the club aren't in place.

See, while I can see the logic here, that sticks in my craw. It's disingenuous because the club only aren't there because Sisu moved the out artificially. Chances are if ACL can survive another couple of years the club will need to come back and the balance of power shifts the other way. The "value" that Sisu add to make money is the value they took away in the first place, I just find it wrong.

 

[Nick]

See, while I can see the logic here, that sticks in my craw. It's disingenuous because the club only aren't there because Sisu moved the out artificially. Chances are if ACL can survive another couple of years the club will need to come back and the balance of power shifts the other way. The "value" that Sisu add to make money is the value they took away in the first place, I just find it wrong.

If it was to Haskell would they now charge as if the club is there?

I reckon if there were 3 independent serious valuations they would be around the same (they are on homes under the hammer).

Could get valuations on all of it and just the bowl so there are options and all fair price.market values?

 

[shmmeee]

If it was to Haskell would they now charge as if the club is there?

I reckon if there were 3 independent serious valuations they would be around the same (they are on homes under the hammer).

Could get valuations on all of it and just the bowl so there are options and all fair price.market values?

Yeah I think they should. I think if we're all intellectually honest here we accept that the ground and club are in a symbiotic relationship and need each other.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

See, while I can see the logic here, that sticks in my craw. It's disingenuous because the club only aren't there because Sisu moved the out artificially. Chances are if ACL can survive another couple of years the club will need to come back and the balance of power shifts the other way. The "value" that Sisu add to make money is the value they took away in the first place, I just find it wrong.

yes it is wrong shmmeeee. SISU must never own the Ricoh. Only the most short sighted (but admittedly well intentioned) would disagree. It's interesting that SISU continue to state publicly that they can 'fund losses for x years' and are 'in it for the long term' blah blah, yet behind the scenes are the ones who are continuing to motivate support for the 'Give us the Ricoh' campaign.

My view is this: SISU can't continue to fund the losses being incurred as a result of their decision to move to Northampton. I've got no evidence, just a combination of gut feel and logical common sense; they're answerable to their investors and why would those investors permit them to continue to throw money at a venture if the pot of gold was no longer at the end of the rainbow?

The fans MUST stand firm and realise that CCFC renting the Ricoh from SISU is a bigger nightmare that the one we currently have.

Our aim MUST be to be rid CCFC of SISU and that will be achieved by 1) continuing the wonderful sixfields boycott solidarity and 2) encouraging ACL/CC to remain strong and resist SISU pressure to sell cheap.

 

[Nick]

yes it is wrong shmmeeee. SISU must never own the Ricoh. Only the most short sighted (but admittedly well intentioned) would disagree. It's interesting that SISU continue to state publicly that they can 'fund losses for x years' and are 'in it for the long term' blah blah, yet behind the scenes are the ones who are continuing to motivate support for the 'Give us the Ricoh' campaign.

My view is this: SISU can't continue to fund the losses being incurred as a result of their decision to move to Northampton. I've got no evidence, just a combination of gut feel and logical common sense; they're answerable to their investors and why would those investors permit them to continue to throw money at a venture if the pot of gold was no longer at the end of the rainbow?

The fans MUST stand firm and realise that CCFC renting the Ricoh from SISU is a bigger nightmare that the one we currently have.

Our aim MUST be to be rid CCFC of SISU and that will be achieved by 1) continuing the wonderful sixfields boycott solidarity and 2) encouraging ACL/CC to remain strong and resist SISU pressure to sell cheap.

You keep saying it is sisu behind the campaign, do you have any proof?

 

[Snozz_is_god]

yes it is wrong shmmeeee. SISU must never own the Ricoh. Only the most short sighted (but admittedly well intentioned) would disagree. It's interesting that SISU continue to state publicly that they can 'fund losses for x years' and are 'in it for the long term' blah blah, yet behind the scenes are the ones who are continuing to motivate support for the 'Give us the Ricoh' campaign.

My view is this: SISU can't continue to fund the losses being incurred as a result of their decision to move to Northampton. I've got no evidence, just a combination of gut feel and logical common sense; they're answerable to their investors and why would those investors permit them to continue to throw money at a venture if the pot of gold was no longer at the end of the rainbow?

The fans MUST stand firm and realise that CCFC renting the Ricoh from SISU is a bigger nightmare that the one we currently have.

Our aim MUST be to be rid CCFC of SISU and that will be achieved by 1) continuing the wonderful sixfields boycott solidarity and 2) encouraging ACL/CC to remain strong and resist SISU pressure to sell cheap.

My point of view exactly, I still belive that NOPM is with out a doubt working, it was never going to happen overnight. So keep strong, stay away from Sixfields and it will start to unravel before the season has finished.

 

[Grendel]

My point of view exactly, I still belive that NOPM is with out a doubt working, it was never going to happen overnight. So keep strong, stay away from Sixfields and it will start to unravel before the season has finished.

There is every doubt its working.

Even if it is - sisu can find some if the losses by selling some of the developing youth players. Is that what you want? A worsening of the squad just to protect a useless lump of concrete in Holbrooks?

 

[stupot07]

There is every doubt its working.

Even if it is - sisu can find some if the losses by selling some of the developing youth players. Is that what you want? A worsening of the squad just to protect a useless lump of concrete in Holbrooks?

Exactly, the way we're playing - fleck, Thomas, Wilson and christie will all be attracting attention.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors

 

[Moff]

My view is this: SISU can't continue to fund the losses being incurred as a result of their decision to move to Northampton. I've got no evidence, just a combination of gut feel and logical common sense; they're answerable to their investors and why would those investors permit them to continue to throw money at a venture if the pot of gold was no longer at the end of the rainbow?

The fans MUST stand firm and realise that CCFC renting the Ricoh from SISU is a bigger nightmare that the one we currently have.

Our aim MUST be to be rid CCFC of SISU and that will be achieved by 1) continuing the wonderful sixfields boycott solidarity and 2) encouraging ACL/CC to remain strong and resist SISU pressure to sell cheap.

Yes they probably cant keep funding the losses so will sell our better players to fund the losses in the next transfer window. Yes NOPM is effective of starving SISU of cash, but will probably have dire consequences on the team, as its the only asset left they have to sell, and at the moment we seem to be producing some promising assets.

Still will give people more to go apopletic about when we get relegated.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Personally I'd like to see an independent valuation of the bowl only (not the casino/development land) and see the Council sell that. But as I've said I have a funny feeling that the football bit isn't what Sisu want.

I'd rather see that anyway.

All the talk's ended up about what a wonderful bit of property development is awaiting our next owner overlooking the facts:

We're a football club, not a construction company(!)

If it's that wonderful, finance should have been easy to get for ACL to do it regardless.

have the football club focus on its core being for a while, that of being a football club!

 

[skybluefred]

Yes they probably cant keep funding the losses so will sell our better players to fund the losses in the next transfer window. Yes NOPM is effective of starving SISU of cash, but will probably have dire consequences on the team, as its the only asset left they have to sell, and at the moment we seem to be producing some promising assets.

Still will give people more to go apopletic about when we get relegated.

Selling any player they can get money for is a sisu way of life, Relegation is also a sisu way of life, and making ludicrous
decisions like moving the club to Northampton on a lie is also a sisu way of life, Get used to it because as long as sisu are here it will continue to happen. :blue:

 

[shmmeee]

There is every doubt its working.

Even if it is - sisu can find some if the losses by selling some of the developing youth players. Is that what you want? A worsening of the squad just to protect a useless lump of concrete in Holbrooks?

If Sisu sell players because income is down from moving to Sixfields, only Sisu are to blame.

 

[Grendel]

Selling any player they can get money for is a sisu way of life, Relegation is also a sisu way of life, and making ludicrous
decisions like moving the club to Northampton on a lie is also a sisu way of life, Get used to it because as long as sisu are here it will continue to happen. :blue:

How many players have they sold in 5 years for a profit?

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

There is every doubt its working.

Even if it is - sisu can find some if the losses by selling some of the developing youth players. Is that what you want? A worsening of the squad just to protect a useless lump of concrete in Holbrooks?

You might have a point Grendel- this is a very real risk that all those who boycott Sixfield potentially promote- even you... so does this mean you will be attending on Tuesday or a game(s) thereafter?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

You keep saying it is a useless shit hole in Holbrooks? never liked it so why the hell would you even entertain going there.
I feel the same about Northampton so I don't go.

There is every doubt its working.

Even if it is - sisu can find some if the losses by selling some of the developing youth players. Is that what you want? A worsening of the squad just to protect a useless lump of concrete in Holbrooks?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Now that is a question we would all like answering but as all there deals are undisclosed we may never know?
But they will always be hat way no matter where we play. We owned highfield road had all the takings but still had to sell all our players our ground and our souls. somethings will never change.

How many players have they sold in 5 years for a profit?

 

[skybluefred]

We wouldn't if Haskell or any other business owner purchased the free hold either.

Did you copy that stupid comment from the Dandy or the Beano.

 

[Moff]

Selling any player they can get money for is a sisu way of life, Relegation is also a sisu way of life, and making ludicrous
decisions like moving the club to Northampton on a lie is also a sisu way of life, Get used to it because as long as sisu are here it will continue to happen. :blue:

Sorry Fred I didnt see you and others complaining when SISU gave Coleman the chequebook to bring in his average players, nor did I hear many complaining when they let the useless turd Thorn bring in a glut of uselss turds at the start of least season. Still SISU couldnt sell them could they, they couldnt even give them away :facepalm: