Coventry City owners invite council to talks over Sky Blues returning to Ricoh Arena (10 Viewers)

[bigfatronssba]

Why would you want them to over charge us for rent? I don't get it? You could then cheer when ACL's accounts are released like a true fan!

Why would you want sisu to own the freehold?

Just so you can cheer when sisu's accounts are released (18 months late) like a true fan? Meanwhile Ccfc continues to lose millions.

 

---

[Ripbuster]

If there are to be talks,I hope both parties are wearing a wire.

 

[Astute]

Why would you want them to over charge us for rent? I don't get it? You could then cheer when ACL's accounts are released like a true fan!

The bigger question is why own something you have to pay rent on? :thinking about:

 

[ajsccfc]

So this is one of those false dawns where I think there's a chance we might return home briefly before realising it's two groups of dickheads in suits playing 'they started it' right?

 

[Cheshire Sky Blue]

From the other post of the same name which is now Closed where Snoz stated:-
Quote Originally Posted by Snozz_is_god View Post

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/new...ouncil-6253773

This is nothing more than posturing by SISU ably supported by their lap dog Les Reid.

Look at the language in the statement, is that really the best way to engage?

CCC/ACL must never sell the Ricoh to SISU.

Can i ask why? I do not give a flying fig in all honesty if SISU get the ricoh, develop it and make money! Why should you?
We are not an attractive proposistion to buy right now. If they get the ricoh, we go home the club benefits, if they develop the land or even just sell us with a ground we own that's great too. People seem just concerned that sisu will make money gettting the ground so what, its the long term future of us that worries me. Right now, no ground, playing in some hole 35+ miles away we have no future. If they get what they want and sell up brilliant, if they get what they want and we start making money, buying players instead of selling and become succesfull again, happy with that also. This can not go on. They cant/wont sell something has to give, we need to own our ground. If doing it with sisu at the helm is the only way.....so be it

Why?
Historical evidence of inability to run a business (I.e. Continued failure to file accounts)
Deep mistrust of JS, TF & SISU generally caused by the errant manner they treat People and organisations
Their complete disregard for the people of Coventry & the Fans of CCFC
The belief (Supported by historical evidence) that SISU will do what is right for SISU not Coventry to the detriment of the City & folk of Coventry
The belief (Supported by historical evidence) that SISU care fig all about CCFC, they only have it as an inconvenient mechanism to bludgeon the council into submission to gain access to the RICOH

Could go on... I am with the Majority, Do not sell the freehold to SISU

I would suggest, Conditionally sell them ACL with the leasehold. After 10 years, if they have been fair and equitable partners then consider selling the freehold at preferential rates (Say 20% less than market value) They then can get on with running the business and the club, and demonstrate good faith to Coventry and its folk.

 

[Nick]

Why would you want sisu to own the freehold?

Just so you can cheer when sisu's accounts are released (18 months late) like a true fan? Meanwhile Ccfc continues to lose millions.

Where did I say I wanted that? I just asked why you would want ACL to overcharge the club rent again?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

So this is one of those false dawns where I think there's a chance we might return home briefly before realising it's two groups of dickheads in suits playing 'they started it' right?

Couldn't put it much better myself.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

SISU Posturing for PR purposes, that's all this is. They are in trouble due to sixfields and NOPM. They will never rent the Ricoh and they can't afford to pay what the freehold plus ACL is worth. Not even close. In any case, nothing can happen from CCC's side this side of the JR; AL has made that crystal clear. I expect and hope that after the JR, CCC will formally offer SISU the £150k rent deal plus access to revenue streams.

Then we will see once and for all what SISU are really here for.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

To be fair I don't want Sisu to own the arena like others I don't trust them.
But if certain covenants are put in place, then there maybe a deal suitable, Sisu however will want everything lock, stock and barrel for next to nothing.
This tells me IMO that ether they have failed to come to agreement on land purchase or are finding it harder then they thought to acquire some land where a ground can be built.
Or they never intended to do so and now that the deadline has come and gone and gone again they need to show us something?

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

So this is one of those false dawns where I think there's a chance we might return home briefly before realising it's two groups of dickheads in suits playing 'they started it' right?

I'm afraid that that does seem probable

 

[Houchens Head]

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, borrrrrriiiiinnnnnggggg!!!

 

[bigfatronssba]

Where did I say I wanted that? I just asked why you would want ACL to overcharge the club rent again?

Where have I said I want acl to do that?

All I said was legally sisu could own the freehold but acl could still charge the club to play there.

 

[Astute]

So this is one of those false dawns where I think there's a chance we might return home briefly before realising it's two groups of dickheads in suits playing 'they started it' right?

Or one side willing to hold negotiations and the other side having a price in mind and nothing else will do.

 

[covcity4life]

anything that rushes a final decision is good news in my book.

 

[Nick]

Where have I said I want acl to do that?

All I said was legally sisu could own the freehold but acl could still charge the club to play there.

Apologies, it is early and I mis read!

 

[grego_gee]

The owners of the football club have decided they wish to own their own stadium freehold without any ties.
This is their prerogative alone. Your or my opinion on this is irrelevant.
They have indicated they will build a new stadium to achieve this if the Ricoh cannot be sold to them without ties.

The Council established the complex web of management around the Ricoh including creating ACL and the 50y lease to them, it is entirely of the councils own doing.
It is probable that the council is incapable of undoing that complex web and lease in order to sell the Ricoh freehold without any ties.
The freehold with the ties is very definitely not what is required and indeed is worth very little.
This is a last challenge to the council to unravel its own mess and sell the stadium as a worthwhile asset at a decent price.
I doubt if the council is capable of doing so.

It will fail and a new stadium will be built just outside Coventry boundaries.


imp:

 

[letsallsingtogether]

To be fair nobody wants that it is just that hatred and anger for Sisu is getting worse as the weeks go by, People me included are now blinded by all that Sisu say just want them to go away and let us have our club back.

They have brought this on themselves.

Where did I say I wanted that? I just asked why you would want ACL to overcharge the club rent again?

 

[Astute]

The owners of the football club have decided they wish to own their own stadium freehold without any ties.
This is their prerogative alone. Your or my opinion on this is irrelevant.
They have indicated they will build a new stadium to achieve this if the Ricoh cannot be sold to them without ties.

The Council established the complex web of management around the Ricoh including creating ACL and the 50y lease to them, it is entirely of the councils own doing.
It is probable that the council is incapable of undoing that complex web and lease in order to sell the Ricoh freehold without any ties.
The freehold with the ties is very definitely not what is required and indeed is worth very little.
This is a last challenge to the council to unravel its own mess and sell the stadium as a worthwhile asset at a decent price.
I doubt if the council is capable of doing so.

It will fail and a new stadium will be built just outside Coventry boundaries.


imp:

I am glad that SISU don't work in this way

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Or one side willing to hold negotiations and the other side having a price in mind and nothing else will do.

I disagree with that Astute if one side has 'a price in mind and nothing else will do' then why say this in this in their statement "Cllr Lucas has not so far confirmed that she will discuss a sale and does not appear to have commissioned an independent valuation to get the ball rolling". My point being if SISU were only willing to pay what they thought an acceptable value was for what they were bidding for, wouldn't they take the step of getting an independent valuation?

 

[The Gentleman]

It will fail and a new stadium will be built just outside Coventry boundaries.

Yes of course it will. In the meantime we will carry on seeing home games played at Sixfields for at least 8 years

 

[RoboCCFC90]

It will fail and a new stadium will be built just outside Coventry boundaries.

Yes of course it will. In the meantime we will carry on seeing home games played at Sixfields for at least 8 years

Really? Are we making it up as we go along now?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

In the region of 7-9 million I believe is what Sisu wanted to pay, doesn't seem reasonable to me when a 10,000 seater stadium will cost them 30 million without any other streams of income.

I disagree with that Astute if one side has 'a price in mind and nothing else will do' then why say this in this in their statement "Cllr Lucas has not so far confirmed that she will discuss a sale and does not appear to have commissioned an independent valuation to get the ball rolling". My point being if SISU were only willing to pay what they thought an acceptable value was for what they were bidding for, wouldn't they take the step of getting an independent valuation?

 

[Houchens Head]

It will fail and a new stadium will be built just outside Coventry boundaries.

Yes of course it will. In the meantime we will carry on seeing home games played at Sixfields for at least 8 years

8 years now is it? From 3, then to 5, now 8. Any more offers anyone? Why not stay in Northampton for life and call ourselves Cobblers Part Deux!

 

[RoboCCFC90]

In the region of 7-9 million I believe is what Sisu wanted to pay, doesn't seem reasonable to me when a 10,000 seater stadium will cost them 30 million without any other streams of income.

Wasn't that for the mortage to Yorkshire Bank?

 

[skybluebal]

This statement is clearly another PR blunder in trying to get CT and fans on their side. It wants to give the impression that they are reasonable, but all their actions to date clearly show that they are not. The statement does not in any way present a conciliatory tone out and spends most of its word count on blaming the Council. They must really think the fans are stupid that we can't see through this, I just find it unbelievable that they think they can put something like this out and the fans will all turn on the Council.

The NOPM and boycott of Sixfields is obviously working, so they issue this while at the same time trying to look as if everything is rosy with the need site acquisition. More positioning for the negotiations - but very weak.

Whoever is to blame, if you are going to hold out an olive branch, then don't put a branch of thorns along with it!

I've put my comments into the statement (more for my own peace of mind) so if you find it useful or not that's fine. Its just my opinion and perspective on this PR.

STATEMENT BY COVENTRY CITY FOOTBALL CLUB
We generally try to avoid tit-for-tat press releases why mention this other than the fact that they doing just that and hadn’t intended to respond to the statement rushed hardly rushed as it was just repeating what has been said before out by Cllr Lucas following the demonstration by fans outside the council house. Like many of the statements drafted by ACL’s London-based PR consultants, it contains more generalisations than specific action points.Lets have a go at the Council However, many fans when have they ever listened to "many fans" not the 8,000 or so on the protest about the move obviously have asked us to issue a response. In particular, they have asked us to cut through the spin and focus on specifics. We have all asked for this for a very long time without ever getting it
Most sensible people agree so if you don't agree you are not sensiblethat a football club, any football club, needs to own its stadium in order to be financially viable on a long-term basis. There can be no return to the old landlord-tenant relationship with ACL, which since 2005 saddled the club with an excessive rent and inflated service charges and deprived it of matchday revenues.

We have repeatedly asked the council to discuss a sale of the Ricoh Arena to the club. When it was offered SISU did not want it, then changed their strategy as to how to get it on the cheap The senior council officers who also serve as directors of ACL have told us that they have no authority to discuss this with us, only the council leadership can do so. So it is a very simple question for Cllr Lucas: is she prepared to discuss a freehold sale of the Ricoh? She has already said the Council are willing to discuss, unfortunately for SISU that means at fair market value
If so, we will sit down and talk. If not, we will build a new stadium seem to have been hearing this mantra for quite a long time with absolutely no evidence of any progress, just more debt being racked up agains the clubon the outskirts of Coventry. We can’t wait around well you said you have 3-5 years, perhaps the first step is to secure a site and get planning permission - this seems to be taking SISU a very long time, so where is the urgency much longer and are therefore pushing ahead with our efforts to acquire a site. Joy Seppala will be writing privately to Cllr Lucas shortly in order to find out exactly what the council’s position is.

Cllr Lucas has not so far confirmed that she will discuss a sale and does not appear to have commissioned an independent valuation to get the ball rolling.why would the Council spend tax payers money on this until its clear that there is serious buyer. We are of course disappointed with this stance, as it was clear that the Council were prepared to sell the Ricoh to other parties, just not to the club’s ownersPerhaps it had something to do with the "take it or leave it offer" which did not match the sellers expectations. We believe don't SISU know? what happened to "cutting through the spin and focus on the specifics"that Cllr Lucas’ predecessor as leader, Cllr John Mutton, met with her very recently to confirm that he had been prepared to discuss stadium ownership with other parties and urged her to negotiate with us.

We are also disappointed that Cllr Lucas is using the Judicial Review application as an excuse Excuse me, you want to take someone to court (having had an initial hearing rejected) and then wonder why they are not in discussion with you until that is out of the way? not to answer questions. The application relates to a very specific area of the law and need not prevent the council from answering many of the perfectly sensible questions which fans are asking.Which sensible questions are these that are being asked? It takes 2 parties at least to come to an agreement. SISU know the JR appeal is going to be thrown out in the next couple of weeks During the initial stages of this process, the council, ACL and Walker Morris continued to make media statements and appearances. There is never any legal bar on the truth. We cannot believe that the council’s lawyers would ever advise Cllr Lucas that speaking the truth So the Council have been lying up until now have they? could prejudice any legal process.

And we’d still like to know the real reason why Cllr Lucas authorised ACL’s rejection of the CVA which cost “my beloved Sky Blues” another 10 points. Probably in the same way that the majority of fans would like to know the real reason SISU moved the club out of Coventry

 

[italiahorse]

If so, we will sit down and talk. If not, we will build a new stadium on the outskirts of Coventry.

They want to talk so they have not moved on as TF said. Get talking CCC the balls in your court.

Cllr Lucas has not so far confirmed that she will discuss a sale and does not appear to have commissioned an independent valuation to get the ball rolling.

This is key, surely asking why they have not commissioned and independant valuation implies they will pay market value.

And we’d still like to know the real reason why Cllr Lucas authorised ACL’s rejection of the CVA which cost “my beloved Sky Blues” another 10 points.

Yes please

 

[Astute]

I disagree with that Astute if one side has 'a price in mind and nothing else will do' then why say this in this in their statement "Cllr Lucas has not so far confirmed that she will discuss a sale and does not appear to have commissioned an independent valuation to get the ball rolling". My point being if SISU were only willing to pay what they thought an acceptable value was for what they were bidding for, wouldn't they take the step of getting an independent valuation?

As you have said not confirmed and does not appear. She has publicaly said that she was willing to talk.

And who said that it is only SISU that would have a price to stick to? It works both ways. It could be SISU that says for instance that 9m and no more. Or it could be CCC that says 50m and not a penny less. And CCC can't sell for less than outstanding loans. The odds are that SISU would also want the leasehold otherwise it is not worth them having the freehold unless they want to mortgage it.

We have slightly different views on the matter. We both want the same end result though. CCFC back in Coventry. It don't mean I only see good in ACL/CCC and bad in SISU because I slightly lean towards ACL and you don't see all good in SISU and only bad in ACL/CCC as you slightly lean towards SISU and getting the freehold at whatever price. The negotiations can fail on either side. And the majority would put the chances of this happening from SISU from past experiences.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

As you have said not confirmed and does not appear. She has publicaly said that she was willing to talk.

And who said that it is only SISU that would have a price to stick to? It works both ways. It could be SISU that says for instance that 9m and no more. Or it could be CCC that says 50m and not a penny less. And CCC can't sell for less than outstanding loans. The odds are that SISU would also want the leasehold otherwise it is not worth them having the freehold unless they want to mortgage it.

We have slightly different views on the matter. We both want the same end result though. CCFC back in Coventry. It don't mean I only see good in ACL/CCC and bad in SISU because I slightly lean towards ACL and you don't see all good in SISU and only bad in ACL/CCC as you slightly lean towards SISU and getting the freehold at whatever price. The negotiations can fail on either side. And the majority would put the chances of this happening from SISU from past experiences.

I wouldn't disagree reading any of that and maybe I did assume you pointed out the standing point of value and purchase point because I assumed that you would lean in favour against SISU, which was wrong.

I agree strongly with the second statement in your last paragraph, 'we all want the same end result' I don't particularly care at the moment how these parties get to this conclusion either, I just want it done, so all the fans can go back to talking and watching Football in our city.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

If so, we will sit down and talk. If not, we will build a new stadium on the outskirts of Coventry.

They want to talk so they have not moved on as TF said. Get talking CCC the balls in your court.

Cllr Lucas has not so far confirmed that she will discuss a sale and does not appear to have commissioned an independent valuation to get the ball rolling.

This is key, surely asking why they have not commissioned and independant valuation implies they will pay market value.

And we’d still like to know the real reason why Cllr Lucas authorised ACL’s rejection of the CVA which cost “my beloved Sky Blues” another 10 points.

Yes please

The only thing I would say on that Italia and I agree with it all and maybe my question is relevant to most people instead of just yourself, Why do people believe Tim Fisher when he said that the club had 'moved on from the Ricoh Arena' yet are happy not to believe him and dismiss his comments when he says anything else?

 

[olderskyblue]

A poisonous press release, seemingly aimed at trying to force CCC into saying the freehold is not for sale, and thereby SISU will say "it's not us, it's them" thereby trying to increase fans support for SISU.

Unfortunately, it's so so easy to "bat back into their court".

CCC: "if a fair offer came in for the ricoh, that included the freehold, we would consider it" Make an offer SISU and we will consider it.

 

[Matty_CCFC]

Coventry City owners invite council to talks over Sky Blues returning to Ricoh Arena
30 Oct 2013 07:00Sisu calls on Coventry City Council to make it clear if is willing to sell stadium



Lets hope SISU are genuine in the suggestion, but why does JS have to write a ltter why not pick up a phone?

I do not trust SISU, might just be another ploy to encourage fans to possibly be tempted to go to Sixfields.

Also if the Council do sell, I hope its only at the right price and an agreement that the Football Club are looked after.


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Ricoh Arena
Coventry City have today issued a public invitation to council leader Ann Lucas to “sit down and talk” urgently about returning to the Ricoh Arena.
The message, issued exclusively in the Telegraph, warns time is running out.
It calls on Coventry City Council to finally make clear if it is prepared to sell the Ricoh freehold to club owners Sisu/Otium.
The statement says: “We have repeatedly asked the council to discuss a sale of the Ricoh Arena to the club.
“The senior council officers (Chris West and Martin Reeves) who also serve as directors of Arena Coventry Limited (ACL) have told us that they have no authority to discuss this with us, only the council leadership can do so.

“So it is a very simple question for Cllr Lucas: is she prepared to discuss a freehold sale of the Ricoh?
“If so, we will sit down and talk. If not, we will build a new stadium on the outskirts of Coventry.
“We can’t wait around much longer and are therefore pushing ahead with our efforts to acquire a site.”
The club’s statement says Sisu boss Joy Seppala will write “shortly” to Coun Lucas requesting she clarifies the council’s position.
The statement says fans had asked the club to respond to a speech by Coun Lucas made in the council chamber last Tuesday – after protesting fans outside handed in a petition with 800 names gathered in four days, calling for action to bring the club home.

Leader of Coventry City Council Ann Lucas It adds the club is “disappointed” Coun Lucas was using Sisu companies’ forthcoming renewed judicial review application into the council’s £14million taxpayer bail-out of ACL as “ an excuse not to answer questions” from fans.
The statement also asks why Coun Lucas “authorised” ACL’s rejection of a Company Voluntary Arrangement which led to manager Steven Pressley’s high-performing young team losing ten League One points.
Coun Lucas, while not clarifying if the stadium was for sale, said last week she would meet any party willing to discuss the “long term future” of the club and stadium, adding, “Let’s bring the club home for Christmas.”
The statement in full...

STATEMENT BY COVENTRY CITY FOOTBALL CLUB
We generally try to avoid tit-for-tat press releases and hadn’t intended to respond to the statement rushed out by Cllr Lucas following the demonstration by fans outside the council house. Like many of the statements drafted by ACL’s London-based PR consultants, it contains more generalisations than specific action points. However, many fans have asked us to issue a response. In particular, they have asked us to cut through the spin and focus on specifics.
Most sensible people agree that a football club, any football club, needs to own its stadium in order to be financially viable on a long-term basis. There can be no return to the old landlord-tenant relationship with ACL, which since 2005 saddled the club with an excessive rent and inflated service charges and deprived it of matchday revenues.
We have repeatedly asked the council to discuss a sale of the Ricoh Arena to the club. The senior council officers who also serve as directors of ACL have told us that they have no authority to discuss this with us, only the council leadership can do so. So it is a very simple question for Cllr Lucas: is she prepared to discuss a freehold sale of the Ricoh?
If so, we will sit down and talk. If not, we will build a new stadium on the outskirts of Coventry. We can’t wait around much longer and are therefore pushing ahead with our efforts to acquire a site. Joy Seppala will be writing privately to Cllr Lucas shortly in order to find out exactly what the council’s position is.
Cllr Lucas has not so far confirmed that she will discuss a sale and does not appear to have commissioned an independent valuation to get the ball rolling. We are of course disappointed with this stance, as it was clear that the Council were prepared to sell the Ricoh to other parties, just not to the club’s owners. We believe that Cllr Lucas’ predecessor as leader, Cllr John Mutton, met with her very recently to confirm that he had been prepared to discuss stadium ownership with other parties and urged her to negotiate with us.

We are also disappointed that Cllr Lucas is using the Judicial Review application as an excuse not to answer questions. The application relates to a very specific area of the law and need not prevent the council from answering many of the perfectly sensible questions which fans are asking. During the initial stages of this process, the council, ACL and Walker Morris continued to make media statements and appearances. There is never any legal bar on the truth. We cannot believe that the council’s lawyers would ever advise Cllr Lucas that speaking the truth could prejudice any legal process.
And we’d still like to know the real reason why Cllr Lucas authorised ACL’s rejection of the CVA which cost “my beloved Sky Blues” another 10 points.

 

[rodders]

Having lost so much money already I think sisu are perhaps now looking to make a slow buck but if Ann Lucas really thinks we have a chance of getting back for Christmas the ball is now well and truly in her court come on Ann tell us what's going on stop hiding behind supposed legalis and make things happen

 

[olderskyblue]

The only thing I would say on that Italia and I agree with it all and maybe my question is relevant to most people instead of just yourself, Why do people believe Tim Fisher when he said that the club had 'moved on from the Ricoh Arena' yet are happy not to believe him and dismiss his comments when he says anything else?

Maybe because people hope that just once, he may tell the truth?

 

[Sub]

Having lost so much money already I think sisu are perhaps now looking to make a slow buck but if Ann Lucas really thinks we have a chance of getting back for Christmas the ball is now well and truly in her court come on Ann tell us what's going on stop hiding behind supposed legalis and make things happen

what a crock of shit, seppalla has been asked to meet with lucas and has not bothered so how you can state that anne is hiding behind legals when SISU are the one issuing the Judicial reviews and keeping companies in court is beyond me

 

[ajsccfc]

'We have moved on' is exactly the same as 'the club is not for sale' or anything about players not for sale for almost every club in the world. The right terms invalidate any of these statements, they're just invitations.