Ricoh Value - 6.4 million in 2012 (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Nick
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Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
21 million pounds plus any increase since 2012
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Mortgage 14.4 plus value
Nick
Administrator
If it is only worth £6.4m then doesn't it mean they are in negative equity? I wonder who has given the figure of what it is worth.
If the council do value it at £6.4m then why should SISU pay off the mortgage for them if it isn't worth that?
If I had a house worth 100,000 but my mortgage was for 2.4 million it doesn't mean the house is worth 2.4 million does it?
If the council do value it at £6.4m then why should SISU pay off the mortgage for them if it isn't worth that?
If I had a house worth 100,000 but my mortgage was for 2.4 million it doesn't mean the house is worth 2.4 million does it?
Nick
Administrator
I was thinking that, we just need to know more about this £6.4m value and what is for I guess.
What is the valuation for? Is it the freehold, leasehold, CCC portion of ACL, bricks and mortar only, does it include goodwill for the business as a going concern (excluding CCFC of course) ?
kevinleftpeg
New Member
it would be worth buying at £6.4m just to knock it down & build on it. £6m is way off the mark in the commercial real world IMHO.
Must be just the seats, grass & dugouts
Must be just the seats, grass & dugouts
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Looks like those are the pertinent questions young man
DazzleTommyDazzle
Well-Known Member
If the Ricoh is worth anything anywhere near £6.4m, why would Otium be planning to build a much smaller ground for a reported £25m?
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
So 18 months ago Sisu were willing to take over the mortgage and buy Higgs share but now it should be just given to them?
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Using that argument then CCFC is worth around negative £60m.
Why didn't sisu sell when they had the chance?
Nick
Administrator
I'm not sure where anybody have said it should be handed over for free?
Nick
Administrator
Who did they have the chance to sell it to?
derbyskyblue
Well-Known Member
Send for osb. He might make sense of it.
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Dont know why you are interested in this if we go back you wont be there you hate the place
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
just to clear things up. its the lease hold that is worth £6.4M, the bit the club need for FFP
not the free hold, the bit joy needs to satisfy her investors.
not the free hold, the bit joy needs to satisfy her investors.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Haskell, the Chinese consortium that Hoffman got together.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Think the report they are referring to is the valuation CBRE did for Yorkshire bank to value the security for its mortgage. Such valuations are often discounted to something much less than open market value it may be the case here too. The question is did the council take an acceptable risk in the security they obtained within the local government rules - going to depend on the instructions for valuation i would have thought and what the rules for making Council loans are. In theory Councils have a discretion as to where they can invest and it isnt restricted to government bonds (ie little risk) but did they act correctly here?
Late 2012 ACL were under a lot of cashflow pressure, turnover apparently half of what it is now apparently, not surprising there was a very conservative valuation. You also have to look at who it was done for and why. Similarly if there was a plan to distress ACL to get the loan paid off cheaply you wouldnt want a valuation that said the loan was secure would you?
Just to be clear I am not saying the valuations were false or illegal or anything less than professional. A valuer will value on the basis of instructions he was given. We do not know those terms or the conditions in respect of the valuation
Since then ACL have restructured, cut normal operating costs and increased turnover. In terms of the business then the turnover increase if it is maintained at those levels adds value to ACL. If the loan set aside (quashed) and CCC has to revisit its processes then they could still come to the decision to lend the money. It is not as clear cut as saying it was only valued at £6.4m
Late 2012 ACL were under a lot of cashflow pressure, turnover apparently half of what it is now apparently, not surprising there was a very conservative valuation. You also have to look at who it was done for and why. Similarly if there was a plan to distress ACL to get the loan paid off cheaply you wouldnt want a valuation that said the loan was secure would you?
Just to be clear I am not saying the valuations were false or illegal or anything less than professional. A valuer will value on the basis of instructions he was given. We do not know those terms or the conditions in respect of the valuation
Since then ACL have restructured, cut normal operating costs and increased turnover. In terms of the business then the turnover increase if it is maintained at those levels adds value to ACL. If the loan set aside (quashed) and CCC has to revisit its processes then they could still come to the decision to lend the money. It is not as clear cut as saying it was only valued at £6.4m
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Nick
Administrator
Did Haskell make a bid for CCFC to SISU? Did Hoffman actually make a serious bid also?
ohitsaidwalker king power
Well-Known Member
Nick
Administrator
So is ACL effectively the lease? So to sell the lease they would be selling ACL?
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Well in the sceme of things 6.4 million is free compared to a 25 to 30 million shed
So worth about £66.4 million more than CCFC Then.
BinleyBlue
New Member
These valuations are no more than opinions based on assumptions. A true value can only be established when a willing seller and a willing buyer agree a price, by negotiation, through an auction or after a tendering process. Until that happens, valuations mean very little and can vary enormously. Just look at the Post Office sell off. What is the value of the Post Office? The amount placed on it when the Government offered it for sale? No, higher than that. The amount represented by current stock market prices? Probably lower than that, as there is still some "froth" in the market. But we probably have a better idea of the value of that than we do with the Ricoh. Anyone who purports to place a value as precise as £6.4 million is just flying a kite. It would only be the value if the Council would sell for that (I don't think they would) or if someone would pay that (I think many would - which suggests it is far too low a figure.)
Nick
Administrator
What are you talking about?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
i questioned this with les reid by email after he wrote about the value and he confirmed that the value was indeed for the lease and effectivally ACL.
i've deleated my emails from les now but i did start a thread on here and posted them in full if anyone can be bothered to look.
The problem is that there are more parts to buy in the Ricoh which are not being discussed. It is being made out as if it as simple as a house sale.
It is not that clear which part that valuation refered too. The only solution is a new valuation based on a purchase of all parts. I am betting it will be more than £6.4m
Then again lets all pretend it is as simple as Mr Reid makes out. That way there is still a flicker of hope that they could do a deal.
With your house Nick it would be like me having your garden valued and then offering that as the price of the house.
It is not that clear which part that valuation refered too. The only solution is a new valuation based on a purchase of all parts. I am betting it will be more than £6.4m
Then again lets all pretend it is as simple as Mr Reid makes out. That way there is still a flicker of hope that they could do a deal.
With your house Nick it would be like me having your garden valued and then offering that as the price of the house.