MichaelCCFC
New Member
Hard pressed to think of a better report on ccfc - http://www.theguardian.com/football...owners-northampton-league-one-sisu?CMP=twt_gu
"Coventry City owners lead club to Northampton and towards the abyss" (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter MichaelCCFC
- Start date
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
Despite everything, in the summer ACL still offered Sisu dramatic rent reductions, but Sisu refused and instead decided to move Coventry City to Northampton. The Football League board, chaired by Greg Clarke, worried that if they refused, Sisu might still not agree a rent at the Ricoh, and the club would have nowhere to play. So they allowed a five-year move, provided Sisu are making efforts to move back to Coventry, a decision bitterly criticised by many supporters, and Ainsworth.
How we doing on making efforts to move back ? Does one meeting with the council constitute "efforts"
:thinking about:
How we doing on making efforts to move back ? Does one meeting with the council constitute "efforts"
:thinking about:
WestEndAgro
Well-Known Member
Nothing in the report is new to us as avid followers of this mess, but it sums up our situation welli to non CCFC fans, hopefully it will be well read and highlight our plight.
I will read in a second !!
Finally a hardhitting Journalist picks up the Baton.
Just need him to do another Inside Out special like the one he did on Bates and Leeds, we all know what happened there ,the offshore owners quickly reverted Ownership to Bates ,if It were ever thus and he was gone in 6months.
Finally a hardhitting Journalist picks up the Baton.
Just need him to do another Inside Out special like the one he did on Bates and Leeds, we all know what happened there ,the offshore owners quickly reverted Ownership to Bates ,if It were ever thus and he was gone in 6months.
covmark
Well-Known Member
read the comment under the article by houch87, he sums it up quite nicely.
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
yep, they didnt pay any rent for the last year there were there, meaning they were already using it "rent free"
Danceswithhorses
Well-Known Member
Yes Mark, obviously a conspiracy-we don't want any independent journalists from national newspapers, criticising our glorious owners, do we ?
Nice to have an article written by someone who isnt involved in this train-wreck of a football club, so cannot be accused of being pro or anti SISU
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
and yet was instantly accused of being so !
Nick
Administrator
So did ACL offer SISU the ground rent free over the summer to try and keep them or not?
covmark
Well-Known Member
who's trying to absolve sisu of blame, they're a bunch of morons who I wouldn't trust with a back street kebab shop, but they're not the only greedy morons in this whole farce.
Nick
Administrator
I am all for an independent journalist writing things as long as they include all facts and that the facts are correct
covmark
Well-Known Member
Not once did I mention a conspiracy.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
The article by David Conn in Guardian 02/12/13
In the middle of English football's greatest ever boom, a proud club is being publicly strangled, and those who run the game are accused of being no more use than bystanders. Coventry City, formed in 1883 by workers at Singers' cycle factory, are owned 130 years later by Sisu, a hedge fund specialising in "distressed debt", using money from unnamed sources via the Cayman Islands.
Sisu's decision to take the club 35 miles from Coventry to Northampton Town's Sixfields Stadium, and play hardball with Coventry city council, which built and owns the high-quality, 32,000-seat Ricoh Arena, has proven catastrophically unpopular with supporters.
The manager Steven Pressley's remarkably positive start to the season, with a cut-price squad of mostly academy graduates, skidded to two home defeats last week: 5-1 to Tranmere then 3-0 to Rotherham. The crowds were 1,815 then 1,961, comfortably the lowest at any League One match, at the club served by Jimmy Hill, Willie Carr and Keith Houchen, which spent 34 years in the top division before relegation from the Premier League in 2001. The presence of around 7,000 fans watching Pressley's team win 3-1 at MK Dons on Saturday demonstrated abiding support for the club and overwhelming rejection of the move to Northampton.
The council, with the Alan Edward Higgs Charity which, as Arena Coventry Limited, jointly run the Ricoh, recently offered Sisu a return rent-free, paying only matchday costs, but Joy Seppala, Sisu's chief executive, has refused even those terms. She is insisting the council should sell Sisu the freehold ownership of the Ricoh Arena, which cost £113m to build; Mark Labovitch, a Sisu director, suggested to the Guardian that Sisu's valuation of the arena could be as low as £4m. The council, which spent £14m of council taxpayers' money building the arena, is not inclined to be harried into selling a major civic asset, and certainly not cheaply.
Bob Ainsworth, Labour MP for Coventry north east, who has been extremely critical of Sisu's conduct and the Football League for agreeing to the Northampton move, said in a parliamentary debate last month "The club's hedge-fund owners and its boss, Joy Seppala, want the stadium, the freehold and the surrounding land, but they do not want to pay more than a pittance for it, and have moved the club out of the city and nearly destroyed it in order to achieve that."
Sisu bought the financially distressed club in December 2007, eyeing millions to be made by winning promotion to the Premier League. Little complaint was heard from Sisu then about the rental arrangement they accepted at the Ricoh, agreed under previous owners who had sold the club's old Highfield Road ground but then spent all the proceeds.
Seppala explained to the Guardian that Sisu's investment was made using private equity and hedge funds. The Arvo Master Fund, registered in Grand Cayman, now providing money to fund losses at Northampton which Sisu has projected as £3m a year, is a hedge fund. Seppala would not name any investors, but said they are European and Asian pension funds, and American universities' endowment funds. Most hedge funds, she said, are "domiciled" in tax havens like the Cayman Islands because it means they avoid paying capital gains tax.
Sisu burned through around £36m on players' wages, transfer fees and other losses, which brought them only relegation from the Championship. Asked how pension fund managers and American universities feel about so much of their money being lost on an English football venture, Seppala replied: "There is no timeframe in which one needs to crystallise value. We believe there is immense value creation to happen in the future."
Seppala, who says "I know nothing about football" almost as an expression of objectivity, explained she reviewed the investment two years ago, and decided, five years after buying the club, that their £1.2m annual rent at the Ricoh was "stratospheric" and they had to gain control of matchday income such as food sales and car parking.
Negotiations were held with ACL and the Higgs charity, but no deal was done, then in March 2012, Sisu simply stopped paying the rent. Sisu's failure to "honour its obligations", as the club's administrator later described it, put ACL under severe financial pressure. The council, to stabilise the position, borrowed money to pay off ACL's mortgage, effectively becoming ACL's banker itself, and earning a little profit from the interest payments.
Sisu actually sued the council, arguing it had acted illegally, a judicial review claim thrown out by Mr Justice Males in July. The judge said Sisu "had caused rent to be withheld as a means of exerting pressure [on ACL] in their commercial negotiations".
ACL had to sue for a net £600,000 owed, then when Sisu still did not pay, applied for the club to go into administration. Sisu were by far the largest creditor due to the hedge fund millions they had put in as loans, and so were able to buy the club back from administration.
Tim Fisher, working for Sisu as the club's chief executive, discussing the acrimonious detail, told a London supporters club meeting in July: "SISU is a distressed debt fund and therefore batters people in court."
Sisu brought the council back to court last week, overturning Mr Justice Males's judgment, gaining the right to proceed with its judicial review claim.
Despite everything, in the summer ACL still offered Sisu dramatic rent reductions, but Sisu refused and instead decided to move Coventry City to Northampton. The Football League board, chaired by Greg Clarke, worried that if they refused, Sisu might still not agree a rent at the Ricoh, and the club would have nowhere to play. So they allowed a five-year move, provided Sisu are making efforts to move back to Coventry, a decision bitterly criticised by many supporters, and Ainsworth.
Seppala rejects the accusation that she is seeking to put ACL and the council into financial distress to buy the arena on the cheap. She says she will not take the club back as tenants because the relationship with ACL has broken down – even though ACL have offered a rent-free return this season, and just £100,000 for the next two if the club is still in League One.
Seppala claims if Sisu do not get the arena, they will build their own stadium, on some site in the Coventry area covered for planning by a different council. That, an unusual project for offshore pension and US university endowment funds, with a 32,000 seat arena already built in Coventry, looks a very distant prospect.
The council leader, Ann Lucas, has said that although they want City back, she will not allow "paralysis" to continue. The suggestion is that if Sisu maintains its refusal, in the new year ACL will seriously consider a Ricoh Arena future without Coventry's football club. ACL believe more concerts, prestige sporting fixtures – the Ricoh hosted 12 Olympic football matches – possibly a rugby club tenant, will pay the arena's way.
Sisu, which bought a Championship club with eyes open, are perhaps overestimating their negotiating power to pressure a local council into ceding a public asset. The hedge fund are now Northampton Town's tenants, losing investors a further £3m a year, sending a small, very young squad into a League One winter. And the vast majority of Coventry City supporters are staying away, outraged that modern football has brought them to this.
In the middle of English football's greatest ever boom, a proud club is being publicly strangled, and those who run the game are accused of being no more use than bystanders. Coventry City, formed in 1883 by workers at Singers' cycle factory, are owned 130 years later by Sisu, a hedge fund specialising in "distressed debt", using money from unnamed sources via the Cayman Islands.
Sisu's decision to take the club 35 miles from Coventry to Northampton Town's Sixfields Stadium, and play hardball with Coventry city council, which built and owns the high-quality, 32,000-seat Ricoh Arena, has proven catastrophically unpopular with supporters.
The manager Steven Pressley's remarkably positive start to the season, with a cut-price squad of mostly academy graduates, skidded to two home defeats last week: 5-1 to Tranmere then 3-0 to Rotherham. The crowds were 1,815 then 1,961, comfortably the lowest at any League One match, at the club served by Jimmy Hill, Willie Carr and Keith Houchen, which spent 34 years in the top division before relegation from the Premier League in 2001. The presence of around 7,000 fans watching Pressley's team win 3-1 at MK Dons on Saturday demonstrated abiding support for the club and overwhelming rejection of the move to Northampton.
The council, with the Alan Edward Higgs Charity which, as Arena Coventry Limited, jointly run the Ricoh, recently offered Sisu a return rent-free, paying only matchday costs, but Joy Seppala, Sisu's chief executive, has refused even those terms. She is insisting the council should sell Sisu the freehold ownership of the Ricoh Arena, which cost £113m to build; Mark Labovitch, a Sisu director, suggested to the Guardian that Sisu's valuation of the arena could be as low as £4m. The council, which spent £14m of council taxpayers' money building the arena, is not inclined to be harried into selling a major civic asset, and certainly not cheaply.
Bob Ainsworth, Labour MP for Coventry north east, who has been extremely critical of Sisu's conduct and the Football League for agreeing to the Northampton move, said in a parliamentary debate last month "The club's hedge-fund owners and its boss, Joy Seppala, want the stadium, the freehold and the surrounding land, but they do not want to pay more than a pittance for it, and have moved the club out of the city and nearly destroyed it in order to achieve that."
Sisu bought the financially distressed club in December 2007, eyeing millions to be made by winning promotion to the Premier League. Little complaint was heard from Sisu then about the rental arrangement they accepted at the Ricoh, agreed under previous owners who had sold the club's old Highfield Road ground but then spent all the proceeds.
Seppala explained to the Guardian that Sisu's investment was made using private equity and hedge funds. The Arvo Master Fund, registered in Grand Cayman, now providing money to fund losses at Northampton which Sisu has projected as £3m a year, is a hedge fund. Seppala would not name any investors, but said they are European and Asian pension funds, and American universities' endowment funds. Most hedge funds, she said, are "domiciled" in tax havens like the Cayman Islands because it means they avoid paying capital gains tax.
Sisu burned through around £36m on players' wages, transfer fees and other losses, which brought them only relegation from the Championship. Asked how pension fund managers and American universities feel about so much of their money being lost on an English football venture, Seppala replied: "There is no timeframe in which one needs to crystallise value. We believe there is immense value creation to happen in the future."
Seppala, who says "I know nothing about football" almost as an expression of objectivity, explained she reviewed the investment two years ago, and decided, five years after buying the club, that their £1.2m annual rent at the Ricoh was "stratospheric" and they had to gain control of matchday income such as food sales and car parking.
Negotiations were held with ACL and the Higgs charity, but no deal was done, then in March 2012, Sisu simply stopped paying the rent. Sisu's failure to "honour its obligations", as the club's administrator later described it, put ACL under severe financial pressure. The council, to stabilise the position, borrowed money to pay off ACL's mortgage, effectively becoming ACL's banker itself, and earning a little profit from the interest payments.
Sisu actually sued the council, arguing it had acted illegally, a judicial review claim thrown out by Mr Justice Males in July. The judge said Sisu "had caused rent to be withheld as a means of exerting pressure [on ACL] in their commercial negotiations".
ACL had to sue for a net £600,000 owed, then when Sisu still did not pay, applied for the club to go into administration. Sisu were by far the largest creditor due to the hedge fund millions they had put in as loans, and so were able to buy the club back from administration.
Tim Fisher, working for Sisu as the club's chief executive, discussing the acrimonious detail, told a London supporters club meeting in July: "SISU is a distressed debt fund and therefore batters people in court."
Sisu brought the council back to court last week, overturning Mr Justice Males's judgment, gaining the right to proceed with its judicial review claim.
Despite everything, in the summer ACL still offered Sisu dramatic rent reductions, but Sisu refused and instead decided to move Coventry City to Northampton. The Football League board, chaired by Greg Clarke, worried that if they refused, Sisu might still not agree a rent at the Ricoh, and the club would have nowhere to play. So they allowed a five-year move, provided Sisu are making efforts to move back to Coventry, a decision bitterly criticised by many supporters, and Ainsworth.
Seppala rejects the accusation that she is seeking to put ACL and the council into financial distress to buy the arena on the cheap. She says she will not take the club back as tenants because the relationship with ACL has broken down – even though ACL have offered a rent-free return this season, and just £100,000 for the next two if the club is still in League One.
Seppala claims if Sisu do not get the arena, they will build their own stadium, on some site in the Coventry area covered for planning by a different council. That, an unusual project for offshore pension and US university endowment funds, with a 32,000 seat arena already built in Coventry, looks a very distant prospect.
The council leader, Ann Lucas, has said that although they want City back, she will not allow "paralysis" to continue. The suggestion is that if Sisu maintains its refusal, in the new year ACL will seriously consider a Ricoh Arena future without Coventry's football club. ACL believe more concerts, prestige sporting fixtures – the Ricoh hosted 12 Olympic football matches – possibly a rugby club tenant, will pay the arena's way.
Sisu, which bought a Championship club with eyes open, are perhaps overestimating their negotiating power to pressure a local council into ceding a public asset. The hedge fund are now Northampton Town's tenants, losing investors a further £3m a year, sending a small, very young squad into a League One winter. And the vast majority of Coventry City supporters are staying away, outraged that modern football has brought them to this.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
although it sums up nicely what has happened, i cant help but think that joy diversion see's this as nothing but good publicity for her hedge fund.
think about it, billionaires with more money than principles read this and think now here's a woman who we walk over anyone to get a return on my investment. charaties, local goverment a 130year old institution, whoever. a good bit of free advertising for sh1tsu i would say and she still dont give a fook about us or our club so for joy diversion the article is a win/win.
its the FL who need the spotlight on them not the hedge funds they pass as fit owners.
think about it, billionaires with more money than principles read this and think now here's a woman who we walk over anyone to get a return on my investment. charaties, local goverment a 130year old institution, whoever. a good bit of free advertising for sh1tsu i would say and she still dont give a fook about us or our club so for joy diversion the article is a win/win.
its the FL who need the spotlight on them not the hedge funds they pass as fit owners.
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
I am all for an independent journalist writing things as long as they include all facts and that the facts are correct
Sisu, which bought a Championship club with eyes open, are perhaps overestimating their negotiating power to pressure a local council into ceding a public asset. The hedge fund are now Northampton Town's tenants, losing investors a further £3m a year, sending a small, very young squad into a League One winter. And the vast majority of Coventry City supporters are staying away, outraged that modern football has brought them to this.
............................
Seems correct to me Nick !
covmark
Well-Known Member
certain bits are correct, no disputing that.
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
A few things with this article:
"Sisu's decision to take the club 35 miles from Coventry to Northampton Town's Sixfields Stadium, and play hardball with Coventry city council, which built and owns the high-quality, 32,000-seat Ricoh Arena." - David Conn makes it sound as it CCFC gave nothing for the Arena and that it was built all out of the heart by the council. We gave up our spiritual home at Highfield Road and everything that came with it to move into the Ricoh.
"The presence of around 7,000 fans watching Pressley's team win 3-1 at MK Dons on Saturday demonstrated abiding support for the club and overwhelming rejection of the move to Northampton." - I agree to an extent, but it's not all fueled by the SISU - Council saga, we took 4998 fans to MK Dons last year and I think the word has spread positively about the stadium and the area in which made the game last season, not just a great game but also a fantastic occasion in general.
"The council, with the Alan Edward Higgs Charity which, as Arena Coventry Limited, jointly run the Ricoh, recently offered Sisu a return rent-free, paying only matchday costs, but Joy Seppala, Sisu's chief executive, has refused even those terms." - Does he mean the deal that was offered to Paul Appleton, who answered by saying "I wouldn't have a team to field"??
"She is insisting the council should sell Sisu the freehold ownership of the Ricoh Arena, which cost £113m to build; Mark Labovitch, a Sisu director, suggested to the Guardian that Sisu's valuation of the arena could be as low as £4m. The council, which spent £14m of council taxpayers' money building the arena, is not inclined to be harried into selling a major civic asset, and certainly not cheaply" - Starting to sound like David Conn is trying to make this sound like "My cock's bigger than yours in respect to the council." As I have already elluded too Coventry City gave up so much and put so much money into the Ricoh, who do you think realistically gave more, CCFC or the Council?
Just a few things I noticed reading it first time round..
"Sisu's decision to take the club 35 miles from Coventry to Northampton Town's Sixfields Stadium, and play hardball with Coventry city council, which built and owns the high-quality, 32,000-seat Ricoh Arena." - David Conn makes it sound as it CCFC gave nothing for the Arena and that it was built all out of the heart by the council. We gave up our spiritual home at Highfield Road and everything that came with it to move into the Ricoh.
"The presence of around 7,000 fans watching Pressley's team win 3-1 at MK Dons on Saturday demonstrated abiding support for the club and overwhelming rejection of the move to Northampton." - I agree to an extent, but it's not all fueled by the SISU - Council saga, we took 4998 fans to MK Dons last year and I think the word has spread positively about the stadium and the area in which made the game last season, not just a great game but also a fantastic occasion in general.
"The council, with the Alan Edward Higgs Charity which, as Arena Coventry Limited, jointly run the Ricoh, recently offered Sisu a return rent-free, paying only matchday costs, but Joy Seppala, Sisu's chief executive, has refused even those terms." - Does he mean the deal that was offered to Paul Appleton, who answered by saying "I wouldn't have a team to field"??
"She is insisting the council should sell Sisu the freehold ownership of the Ricoh Arena, which cost £113m to build; Mark Labovitch, a Sisu director, suggested to the Guardian that Sisu's valuation of the arena could be as low as £4m. The council, which spent £14m of council taxpayers' money building the arena, is not inclined to be harried into selling a major civic asset, and certainly not cheaply" - Starting to sound like David Conn is trying to make this sound like "My cock's bigger than yours in respect to the council." As I have already elluded too Coventry City gave up so much and put so much money into the Ricoh, who do you think realistically gave more, CCFC or the Council?
Just a few things I noticed reading it first time round..
SISU want the Arena for as low as £4 million..................Wankers !! If it was going for as cheap as that, 10,000 of us could chip in £400 and match their derisory valuation ! Not sure about all the facts and merits of this article but it's sympathetic to the 000's of City fans who want an end to this bullshit and that's good enough for me !
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
So out of that post what is not correct?
cofastreecity
New Member
A very well drafted piece, by a national non contaminated newspaper, Mr Reid should indeed read the contents, and given the strength of feeling at MK on Saturday during the 10 minute applause, he may well get some insight into the depth of feeling of the fans. Good on you Mr Conn, at last someone takes notice.
Nick
Administrator
That is only a small snippet though isn't it? I wasn't questioning that bit.
I'm not doubting that some of it is true, we all know that.
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
Lets start with this BHSB "Coventry city council, which built and owns the high-quality, 32,000-seat Ricoh Arena." Was the Council the only entity to input money into the Arena's construction and if so much by how much in % of the total cost?
Nick
Administrator
When did SISU / CCFC get offered rent free or for 100k?
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Read my post
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Read my post
cofastreecity
New Member
The way I read the Guardian article the offer is much more recent, perhaps the past few days or weeks. Zero rent and SISU still say no, tells its own story now.
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
"Say my name"!
They were certainly offered £400,000 plus a share of F & B and they didn't want to know. That was a reasonable deal for a stadium of the ilk of the Ricoh and with the club paying about £240,000 a year to the likes of David Bell the hypocrisy in turning it down was laughable !
Nick
Administrator
Which post?
Nick
Administrator
Wouldn't we have heard about it if it was recently though? You are saying "tells its own story" like you know for a fact this offer is recent? Do you know something?