Sisu boss Joy Seppala rejects council offer to play at Ricoh Arena rent-free (20 Viewers)
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sky blue john
Well-Known Member
If no fans turn up it will force the football league to act. Before anyone says they are toothless which is right i think that the publicity of no fans turning up would definitely get a reaction !!!!
ohitsaidwalker king power
Well-Known Member
You know- sometimes; when a pile of poo looks like poo, smells like poo.. it probably is poo... its OK to trust your instincts once in a while- else one might be guilty of trying to polish a turd?
skybluericoh
Well-Known Member
I beleive SISU have some sort of agenda, buggered if I know what, but I don't think that anything they are doing is for the benefit of CCFC/ACL/CCC/ the fans or any other people connected to the club, city or surrounding area. They will have a game plan, a way to turn their spending into some sort of profit, even if it's by pumping debt from other areas into the club before folding it. But lets not forget some know facts.
- SISU, or one of their companies put CCFC into admin.
- They moved us out of the ricoh and reputed all attempts to keep them their, as did the SISU appointed administrator.
- The golden share was lost then found very conveniently by the administrator and the FL.
- I don't like or trust Tim Fisher, and I think he has told lie after lie- my opinion Tim bring it on if you want but the last time I checked I can express my opion in this country. 'It's all about the F&B' complete tosh Timmy!
- Transfer embargos. Contrary to what some believe, they are down to SISU not ACL etc. 1 for transfer/ loan payment / agreement misunderstanding, twice for ailing to file accounts. Using excuses like ' we could because we we in dispute with ACL. See my comment above for what I think on that one.
Now the JR I welcome it if it forces the truth out. If the CCC have been doing stuff wrong then they should be outed. But if they have been protecting an asset from a predator business, then that too should come out.
I was starting to weaken in my NOPM thinking if they do come back I'll renew and give SISU a second chance. This thread has just stiffened my resolve.
PUSB
- SISU, or one of their companies put CCFC into admin.
- They moved us out of the ricoh and reputed all attempts to keep them their, as did the SISU appointed administrator.
- The golden share was lost then found very conveniently by the administrator and the FL.
- I don't like or trust Tim Fisher, and I think he has told lie after lie- my opinion Tim bring it on if you want but the last time I checked I can express my opion in this country. 'It's all about the F&B' complete tosh Timmy!
- Transfer embargos. Contrary to what some believe, they are down to SISU not ACL etc. 1 for transfer/ loan payment / agreement misunderstanding, twice for ailing to file accounts. Using excuses like ' we could because we we in dispute with ACL. See my comment above for what I think on that one.
Now the JR I welcome it if it forces the truth out. If the CCC have been doing stuff wrong then they should be outed. But if they have been protecting an asset from a predator business, then that too should come out.
I was starting to weaken in my NOPM thinking if they do come back I'll renew and give SISU a second chance. This thread has just stiffened my resolve.
PUSB
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
My instincts are to find out all facts before jumping.
It serves me well.
Stops me assuming we're debt free, the fans should hand over their shares, and hedge funds are cuddly entities in it for the cheap thrill of a last minute equaliser v Watford.
ohitsaidwalker king power
Well-Known Member
Maybe.. but he who hesitates.......sometimes?
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Why would ACL be finished? They'd just borrow the money from a commercial lender pay the council back, Sisu score a point against the council and we stay in Northampton.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
...gets to the truth first.
This will be their
Plan. Mark my words.
This is why a hedge fund owning football is immoral. It is like fixing your horse to lose by doping the bugger. Ccfc promote unfair competition. It is a scandal and the FL are complicit.
ohitsaidwalker king power
Well-Known Member
Loses.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
How can Ann Lucas make such an offer? You, OSB etc. are always at pains to point out that ACL are a separate company
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
does it matter?
the problem isn't the offer, the problem is that it hasn't been taken up.
any other argument is just a self folly of a need for attention.
ohitsaidwalker king power
Well-Known Member
Im just watching central news... blokes rowing across the atlantic or similar... against the tide....?
Como
Well-Known Member
Long time follower, ex season ticket holder. First time poster.
I think I understood what SISU were trying to do when they acquired the club, however a lot of time has passed and a lot of things have changed.
Obviously SISU have no interest in the team, the game, a new stadium or anything that would not directly allow them to get out in the best possible financial position.
I can not believe that building a new stadium is in their plans, they would just be digging a deeper hole.
They have a reason for suggesting that is a possibility, they have a reason for not wanting to go back to the Ricoh apparently on any terms.
So what is their strategy, what is their exit policy?
You have to look at it from their perspective.
I can only assume that they think they can somehow get the Ricoh for pennies in the Pound and then be able to sell both club and stadium as a going proposition to somebody. How much can the cub be worth now, either as tenant of Sixfields or the Ricoh?
As far as us going down, that makes no sense, the better the teams position is the better the exit strategy is. My guess is that the difference in income between the Ricoh and Sixfields is at least short term, chump change.
I think I understood what SISU were trying to do when they acquired the club, however a lot of time has passed and a lot of things have changed.
Obviously SISU have no interest in the team, the game, a new stadium or anything that would not directly allow them to get out in the best possible financial position.
I can not believe that building a new stadium is in their plans, they would just be digging a deeper hole.
They have a reason for suggesting that is a possibility, they have a reason for not wanting to go back to the Ricoh apparently on any terms.
So what is their strategy, what is their exit policy?
You have to look at it from their perspective.
I can only assume that they think they can somehow get the Ricoh for pennies in the Pound and then be able to sell both club and stadium as a going proposition to somebody. How much can the cub be worth now, either as tenant of Sixfields or the Ricoh?
As far as us going down, that makes no sense, the better the teams position is the better the exit strategy is. My guess is that the difference in income between the Ricoh and Sixfields is at least short term, chump change.
hutch1972
Well-Known Member
But the reason ACL had council money was because they were close to defaulting on the commercial loan they had , they would end up with huge rates of interest on any new commercial loan given their previous struggles.
Como
Well-Known Member
ACL would need to show how they could fund any interest payments, I sort of assumed at the moment they could not.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
They only were worrying the Yorkshire Bank because we weren't paying the rent. Supposedly (and we only have the word of ACL) they're doing much better and if they've got their act together and can present a decent business plan it's not beyond the realms of possibility. Doesn't get us back to Coventry but then neither are SISU on current evidence.
Just noticed this in today's Times, another reason why ACL will miss CCFC a little less if it happens.
Barry Hearn replying to criticism of the staging of the UK Snooker Championship
"Hearn acknowledged that there had been logistical problems at York Barbican this year, but maintained that matters would improve after the expected move to a larger venue next year. The Ricoh Arena in Coventry is one of those in the running."
Barry Hearn replying to criticism of the staging of the UK Snooker Championship
"Hearn acknowledged that there had been logistical problems at York Barbican this year, but maintained that matters would improve after the expected move to a larger venue next year. The Ricoh Arena in Coventry is one of those in the running."
Grendel
Well-Known Member
If we were only 9% of the turnover that is baloney especially as half the rent was in a holding account. Have the bank ever made that claim?
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Good point, someone made the claim and actually I don't know if the bank ever did. I'll have to check who first mentioned the bank being concerned and get back to you.
Bill Glazier
Active Member
Never forget, this is a hostage situation- Coventry won't get its club back til the ransom is paid.
As a secondary thought ,If CCC Is exposed to the Cheap takeover of the Freehold due to the lease of ACL,and that Is why SISU are so fixated on getting It .Enabling them to subsequently knock over ACL ,a rental agreement would immediately increase the freehold value and potentially ward off such a move.
Never Pay the Hostage taker .
It was Fisher on CWR after he had suggested It first ,then a week later he came on making out how concerned he was that the bank was threatening the whole set up of all parties ,club as well.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Receives a mention on this page http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/judge-throws-out-sky-blues-5667471 about the Judicial Review
Oh and if you read the article Lucas didn't (and couldn't) make the offer ACL did.
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swanageskyblue
New Member
Could this be it OSB? I've just copied this from another thread I just posted it onto...
Apologies if this has been discussed and dismissed elsewhere already, but I'll float my theory anyway of just what SISU's strategy is...
Their case for JR has 4 strands to it - most of the attention has been on the loan itself and how ACL would re-finance the loan if it is found to be improper, but the related arguments that SISU made were that this was a strategy to drive them out of Coventry...and it succeeded. So, if they win the JR, they will move on to the issue of compensation for the damages incurred as a result of being driven out of Coventry by the improper actions of CCC:
1. Loss of income - many threads have said 'do the maths, SISU, you are losing millions by playing at Northampton'. They are doing it, and the longer they are out of Coventry, the bigger the total. A shortfall of 10,000 fans a match is around 3-4 million a season, plus programme and shop sales, food and drink, car parking etc. So they may be racking up 5 million a season here, plus interest of course.
2. Curtailed performance - through the above loss of income, on-pitch performance is curtailed by the necessity of staying within FFP limits. It sounds tenuous but - say we miss out on promotion by a few points - a good lawyer could convincingly argue that, without the limitations imposed by CCC's actions - the squad would have been strengthened, improved results achieved and promotion obtained, and all the resultant additional revenues that would have followed from that. Plus more income from more TV appearances, more ticket sales etc.
3. Reputational damage - our once-proud and greatly-respected club has taken so many hits to its standing and reputation that they might even try this one, even though they have arguably been responsible for most of them! A brand has a value and ours has been diminished by being forced out of our home city.
If SISU win this JR, and after loads more legal argument - not least about what is permissible to claim within the law - expect a big claim for damages against CCC, then a load more legal argument, more negotiation and eventually an agreement - "give us the Ricoh to settle our claims and we will let you off any further action".
Please tell me I am hallucinating, as I would really hate to see it turning out like this.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Did CCC force our club out of Coventry?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Of course your honour!
They illegally propped up a company to prevent us from buying it on terms the club could afford, knowing that there was no alternative!
Grendel
Well-Known Member
This is becoming so dull i can feel Rigamortis coming on.
Snozz_is_god
New Member
Then do one
Hobo
Well-Known Member
I respect fans who have chosen to continue supporting the team by going to Sixfields. I respect that a lot of them are supporting manager and players rather than regime.
But it would be nice just to have one game where people don't turn up and show solidarity...this situation is wrong.
But it would be nice just to have one game where people don't turn up and show solidarity...this situation is wrong.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
So in summary
JS meets AL in London. JS says only way back for CCFC is if it is as stadium owners of the whole site (that ties in with public statements in press). AL probably says all options are open but ACL have long lease on the site and it is not usual Council policy to sell freeholds. Nor can AL talk about a rental deal because only ACL can do that but in any case it would be a short conversation because JS just not interested in such deal. (AL did not make the rent free proposal that was done by ACL). Stalemate, meeting ends with nothing achieved, no statement issued because in essence there is nothing to say.
ACL approach FL to ask them to broker talks about a rent deal, giving them details of the proposals including a proposal for rent free for the rest of this season only payment of match day expenses. FL approach Otium with the proposals, which are rejected and no meeting set up to discuss a rent deal. It isnt a direct approach so both sides can say it hasnt been formalised or that no response received.
Little snippets are leaked from here and there about who said what and when. nothing changes there then. Opinion is swayed this way and that by the various parties involved
In mean time team dips and then reinvigorated by 3 signings, Otium open a Coventry shop, SISU win a battle in court, owners feel more confident. ACL get on with their business, stay quiet except to say that their turnover has increased even without ccfc and door open to a rent deal. Council stay quiet except to say that they are still willing to talk about bringing CCFC back. National press gets involved and stirs the pot. The fans become ever more frustrated by the whole damn thing.
about covers it I think ...........
JS meets AL in London. JS says only way back for CCFC is if it is as stadium owners of the whole site (that ties in with public statements in press). AL probably says all options are open but ACL have long lease on the site and it is not usual Council policy to sell freeholds. Nor can AL talk about a rental deal because only ACL can do that but in any case it would be a short conversation because JS just not interested in such deal. (AL did not make the rent free proposal that was done by ACL). Stalemate, meeting ends with nothing achieved, no statement issued because in essence there is nothing to say.
ACL approach FL to ask them to broker talks about a rent deal, giving them details of the proposals including a proposal for rent free for the rest of this season only payment of match day expenses. FL approach Otium with the proposals, which are rejected and no meeting set up to discuss a rent deal. It isnt a direct approach so both sides can say it hasnt been formalised or that no response received.
Little snippets are leaked from here and there about who said what and when. nothing changes there then. Opinion is swayed this way and that by the various parties involved
In mean time team dips and then reinvigorated by 3 signings, Otium open a Coventry shop, SISU win a battle in court, owners feel more confident. ACL get on with their business, stay quiet except to say that their turnover has increased even without ccfc and door open to a rent deal. Council stay quiet except to say that they are still willing to talk about bringing CCFC back. National press gets involved and stirs the pot. The fans become ever more frustrated by the whole damn thing.
about covers it I think ...........