Some Feedback from Les on SBT Leagal Action (7 Viewers)

[lewys33]

I am not happy with the current situation in the slightest, however the club needs to own it's full stadium now whether that is the Ricoh, Highfield Road or Lego Land it needs to be owned by the club to maximise revenues. If this sham of a situation helps us to return to the Ricoh as owners of the Freehold as painful as it says to say it should be done.

LET'S BUY LEGO LAND!!!!!

Sorry the inner-child escaped from me there ..........

 

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[cochese]

Because threats are often enough. I wonder if they will sue the Guardian? The Guardian wouldn't be as easily scared off as a few fans with modest means stirring up 'trouble' in a semi in Wyken, would they?

The Guardian article majored on the decline since SISU arrived. I think ACL/CCC may have played a part in one element of that. But even the 'horrendous' rent (if we ignore the almost division-best facilities that went with it) was only the same as the wages SISU gifted to the combined might of Bell and Wood for the season.

If you think the rent (c.10% of the totalist of declared losses at time of administration) is equal in 'blame' as everything else, then again, I profoundly disagree with you. A did the Guardian journalist; hence the article

And what about the now. Now that we're not paying Bell and Wood. Now that we have a team full of youngsters hungry to get in on the action. A Strike partnership worth fearing by other teams. A manager who wants the club to go places and seemingly signing the right players? Is this not SISUs doing as well? Do you not want all the match day revenue to go to the club to help the club to grow? From what I have read, ACL are not willing to give us this. But it's ok, because they aren't SISU so it's allowed to go unnoticed and we'll continue to let SISU know how badly the ran things when they first came on board (Which they did).

 

[fernandopartridge]

As both LS and myself pointed out the other day, the Guardian of all papers are more likely to welcome such action than most, they're also rather good at defending it.

And if people are willing to put up a fight, the actual court cases tend to see the truth come out one way or another... it's the threat of the costs involved that acts as the deterrent after all, and if somebody wants to respond to such threats, said court cases can often shine lights that otherwise wouldn't be shone.

As it is, probably a good thing that something directly related to the Guardian gets pushed, no, even if not directed explicitly at the Guardian (as of yet?) We need national attention, and what better way to get it.

I agree, it's interesting how, what would appear to be irrelevant facts, come out in a court case - look at Nigella Lawson for an example.

 

[The Gentleman]

I've said repeatedly if a 3 year deal is on offer, they should take it and get on with building their own stadium if that's what they say they'll do. I've said repeatedly their bluff should be called.

We're not actually arguing here, are we? it's just a desire from some to split other perspectives and make them different, when they're not.

As I said, condemning one action doesn't automatically mean I think other actions are right, and this is downright wrong!

You're right we're not arguing, but i think that you saying Sisu's current plan of moving us to Northampton is sustainable and part of a good plan is wrong. I don't think it does because if they had just taken the opportunity to negotiate a better deal when they had the chance , all this Sixfields bollocks and the further divisions it has created within our already depleted fanbase is not making us sustainable now or for the future.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Because not everybody in Coventry is a fan of CCFC and if this sham of a situation ends in Sisu getting the Ricoh and all around it for far less than it is worth and it in some way is detrimental to the people of Coventry, why should it be done ? should it be done just to make fans like you happy ?

I never said once that Sisu shouldn't pay anything less then market rate for the Ricoh, however market rate for the Ricoh is undetermined so what chances are there of Sisu bidding a satisfactory amount?

I speak to non CCFC fans who live in Coventry and the majority tell me that the Council should sell at the market rate or put a price on the Arena, after all the short term damage of not having the Football Club in the City may hurt the City as whole.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

LET'S BUY LEGO LAND!!!!!

Sorry the inner-child escaped from me there ..........

Us playing Blackpool in two years time..

 

[oldskyblue58]

I approached Les Reid via email to get his take on the letter received by the SBT from sisu's lawyers, he has asked me to post his replies in a new thread.

they are as follows.........................

can I ask what it was you actually asked Mr Reid?

 

[italiahorse]

I never said once that Sisu shouldn't pay anything less then market rate for the Ricoh, however market rate for the Ricoh is undetermined so what chances are there of Sisu bidding a satisfactory amount?

I speak to non CCFC fans who live in Coventry and the majority tell me that the Council should sell at the market rate or put a price on the Arena, after all the short term damage of not having the Football Club in the City may hurt the City as whole.

Does taking the football club away from the stadium reduce its value?
Does paying that reduced value and then bringing the team back give Sisue their profit?
Can Sisue EVER be forgiven for risking our team for their business games?
It's a NO from me.

 

[fernandopartridge]

can I ask what it was you actually asked Mr Reid?

I wondered that as parts of the response refer directly to points made in Tony's first letter.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Does taking the football club away from the stadium reduce its value?
Does paying that reduced value and then bringing the team back give Sisue their profit?
Can Sisue EVER be forgiven for risking our team for their business games?
It's a NO from me.

Can I applaud you for the SISUE name?

 

[The Gentleman]

I never said once that Sisu shouldn't pay anything less then market rate for the Ricoh, however market rate for the Ricoh is undetermined so what chances are there of Sisu bidding a satisfactory amount?

I speak to non CCFC fans who live in Coventry and the majority tell me that the Council should sell at the market rate or put a price on the Arena, after all the short term damage of not having the Football Club in the City may hurt the City as whole.

Sisu want it for a lot less than what it is worth (we all know this) and you saying this sham of situation gets Sisu the Ricoh then so be it, is really saying that though isn't it ? I am a Building Surveyor and it would be very easy to put a value on the Ricoh actually, so if Sisu are actually interested in it then get three valuations for a happy medium, then a satisfactory bid can actually be made by Sisu or anybody else for that matter. Not rocket science, not a murky world where all facts are not known, just simple honest good business practice. Which is pretty much from what I can gather is what the council have asked for.

 

[italiahorse]

Can I applaud you for the SISUE name?

Appreciation accepted.

 

[italiahorse]

Sisu want it for a lot less than what it is worth (we all know this) and you saying this sham of situation gets Sisu the Ricoh then so be it, is really saying that though isn't it ? I am a Building Surveyor and it would be very easy to put a value on the Ricoh actually, so if Sisu are actually interested in it then get three valuations for a happy medium, then a satisfactory bid can actually be made by Sisu or anybody else for that matter. Not rocket science, not a murky world where all facts are not known, just simple honest good business practice. Which is pretty much from what I can gather is what the council have asked for.

CCC Value with the team ?
Sisue Value without the team ?

Which one is correct?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Does taking the football club away from the stadium reduce its value?
Does paying that reduced value and then bringing the team back give

A lot of things would have to be taken into account with regards to the value of the Arena, but the Football Club not playing there would have an impact for sure.

 

[AndreasB]

The Trust and its various factions have been very foolish in losing the support of Les Reid - someone who objectively and incisively got to the heart of this situation. The bile on here today aimed at him is absolutely typical of a mindless, self destructive streak that has categorised the "protest". Reid could have been a massive asset in supporting getting City back to the Ricoh. Instead, the trust has done its usual thing of doing nothing until there is apparently an anti SISU story and then publicising the hell out of it.

 

[Captain Dart]

Chill guys..

 

[lewys33]

Us playing Blackpool in two years time..

Imagine the mexican wave!

 

[The Gentleman]

Imagine the mexican wave!

It would take fucking ages to do !

 

[The Gentleman]

The Trust and its various factions have been very foolish in losing the support of Les Reid - someone who objectively and incisively got to the heart of this situation. The bile on here today aimed at him is absolutely typical of a mindless, self destructive streak that has categorised the "protest". Reid could have been a massive asset in supporting getting City back to the Ricoh. Instead, the trust has done its usual thing of doing nothing until there is apparently an anti SISU story and then publicising the hell out of it.

Hahahahahahaha ! I wish I had him in my corner now :facepalm:

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Sisu want it for a lot less than what it is worth (we all know this) and you saying this sham of situation gets Sisu the Ricoh then so be it, is really saying that though isn't it ? I am a Building Surveyor and it would be very easy to put a value on the Ricoh actually, so if Sisu are actually interested in it then get three valuations for a happy medium, then a satisfactory bid can actually be made by Sisu or anybody else for that matter. Not rocket science, not a murky world where all facts are not known, just simple honest good business practice. Which is pretty much from what I can gather is what the council have asked for.

What is the alternative? Build a stadium outside the City's boundries in which half of our core support would turn up reguarly and the Ricoh sit as a painful reminder?

Sounds very simple, if it is that simple maybe you should suggest it to the SCG and they can mention it to Tim Fisher during the next meeting?

 

[lewys33]

It would take fucking ages to do !

the match would be over!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You're right we're not arguing, but i think that you saying Sisu's current plan of moving us to Northampton is sustainable and part of a good plan is wrong. I don't think it does because if they had just taken the opportunity to negotiate a better deal when they had the chance , all this Sixfields bollocks and the further divisions it has created within our already depleted fanbase is not making us sustainable now or for the future.

No, I'm saying these is indeed an argument to be made that by doing so, they've managed to shift goalposts that previously weren't shiftable. The evidence is there that that happens, the subpolot is we see ACL as a business (quite rightly) acting for its business's interests... but that isn't necessarily the club's interests either. The movement in positions from ACL shows this after all, as the lower the rent for the club the better, naturally!

The problem always has been, and this is the problem with SISU full-stop, it becomes wilful smoke and mirrors, the introduction of doubt in order to play the game... but the problem has always been that there's a relatively neutral and appropriate financial argument to be made that you take a short term hit for the long term gain. If the club came back with a valid deal that allows them to be sustainable going forward, and the club grows as a result, then it's a valid tactic.

The problem has always been that at the end of the day we're owned by a group who want profit for their investors, not for the football club. The tactic I just mentioned there is a long term tactic, and that doesn't tally with what SISU are, or their initial strategy for that matter. So then, because it doesn't tally, and because they don't communicate things beyond the superficial, it introduces doubt as to whether it's a benevolant looking after the club motivation or not. The same as, really, signing Fix, Dann, Eastwood wasn't looking after the club, as looking after the club would have been spending those transfer fees on the infrastructure, letting the league position slide if need be, but making sure the club was solid...

And that's the problem, and yes it should indeed be checked ve-ry carefully if they *are* looking after the club or not. The initial plan, after all, would have helped us had it worked and we fluked a promotion, but the pay-off was always likely to be a world of pain for us down the line if it didn't, as it was never likely to be the 'traditional' football approach of sell on to the next mug with a small amount of cash to spunk, who gets fans onside for a couple of years until they run out of money...

It's not the moving as such that creates divisions, it's the wilful smoke and mirrors behind the moving that creates divisions. Whether that's because SISU just aren't good at PR (their statements on the club website certainly say that!!) or because it's part of a deliberate strategy to create divisions, is open to debate.

You're right, the emotional wrench of going to Sixfields is the best argument not to do it, regardless. As things stood, with Mutton saying he was chanting SISU Out with the rest of them, the level of antagonism on both sides certainly looked like a power struggle, and it's certainly wrong, IMHO, to say the club solely moved. IMNSHO the club were *pushed* to move as much as they moved themselves.

Now that's a different argument to the present however. Ann Lucas has been far more savvy in her style, doing far more what I've always thought CCC should do, and offer flexibility and extend the olive branch. Ultimately, if a deal is on offer for the time to build a stadium, there is little reason for SISU not to move back... unless it exposes said position as nothing but a negotiating hand for a higher goal. The moving on to 'freehold or nothing' is an interesting paradigm shift too. Now there is the benign reason that SISU can't work with the council, and the council can't work with them - all fair enough. You'd have to ask what ultimate difference in operations and working relationships a peppercorn rent with a long term lease actually has, however...

So, personally I hope Ann Lucas keeps going on with her current tack, an offer to help SISU find some land for their new stadium would be good too, make them either follow through on that tactic in a place we'd be happy with, or mean they have to shift their own negotiations elsewhere. After all, what has worked best for painting SISU into a corner so far? I'd say Ann Lucas's 'I'll talk to you about anything' has meant SISU's negotiating positions look increasingly absurd, while the Trust's more reasonable perception recently sees them threatened with a legal letter.

The 'reasonable' position from both paints SISU into a corner far better than trying to butt heads with them.

 

[mark82]

Why don't you grow up man, what is the point of continually going back over old ground FFS, how far do you want to go to look where our troubles started 5, 10, 20 years, whats the fucking point ? if you are always looking back how are you ever going to move forward. It is stubborn minded people like you, Sisu, certain people at ACL/CCC and journalists who cannot move on that will kill off our club. I do see it as our club really as we were here from the beginning and we will be here when Sisu/Otium crawl off into the sunset. I know that big companies also put money in and tv etc, but without us there is no club. I think that if Sixfields was filled every week then Sisu win, if no-one went at all and the place was completely empty, we would get our club back HOME very quickly. But to continually drag out the past at every given opportunity helps no-one.

So you would be willing to forgive Sisu to move forward?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

The Trust and its various factions have been very foolish in losing the support of Les Reid - someone who objectively and incisively got to the heart of this situation. The bile on here today aimed at him is absolutely typical of a mindless, self destructive streak that has categorised the "protest". Reid could have been a massive asset in supporting getting City back to the Ricoh. Instead, the trust has done its usual thing of doing nothing until there is apparently an anti SISU story and then publicising the hell out of it.

Lunacy. Heart of the issue? How about the one everyone keeps on asking (and as I posted at #80 in this thread): 'Why the insistence on freehold; when a long lease with low rents and access to football related; or SISU-inspired revenues should suffice?'

I think the loss is not the Trust losing Les; it's Mr Reid failing to investigate and comment upon the concerns of the vast percentage of City fans

 

[AndreasB]

Lunacy. Heart of the issue? How about the one everyone keeps on asking (and as I posted at #80 in this thread): 'Why the insistence on freehold; when a long lease with low rents and access to football related; or SISU-inspired revenues should suffice?'

I think the loss is not the Trust losing Les; it's Mr Reid failing to investigate and comment upon the concerns of the vast percentage of City fans

Thats not his job to blindly support your conspiracy theories not matter how widely held they are.

 

[mark82]

You, like many others, mistake being impartial with accrediting equal blame to both sides.

It's not impartial to say "the Nazis and the Jews were both to blame for the holocaust" because the facts don't support that.

Les Reid's job is to find and report on facts. Not his opinion, not what he feels, facts. After all Comment is free, but facts are sacred.

To imply that the vast majority of CCFC fans are misguided and unable to find their own way through this maze of crap is not just insulting to us, it shows what a poor job he has done of informing us.

There is an ever decreasing minority on here (and GMK) who think that it's an untouchable position to blame both sides, as if this is the pinnacle of reason. Whereas in fact, it just shows an inability to make up your mind or make judgements based on the facts available.

As for why wouldn't he back a protest against the Council, perhaps we should ask why he hasn't backed the many other protests against Sisu or the FL?

I have changed my opinion, if you look back, from supporting ACL to believing both sides have a case to answer. This is based upon the council & ACLs lack of willingness to talk. One meeting where they were meant to discuss a purchase and offered a rental deal (it was not free rent if you check the facts) through a third party does not change things.

To be fair I don't think I would be willing to enter into a rental agreement with a landlord who just 6 months ago tried to forceably remove me from my business because they had found someone else to run it. That is the real reason we find ourselves in Northampton, a failed coup.

 

[The Gentleman]

So you would be willing to forgive Sisu to move forward?

What ? Where did I say I would be willing to forgive. Look, I just want to watch my team play a HOME match in Coventry. The sad part is that as a direct result of Sisu, I am not able to do this. Do I like Sisu, no. Would I go and watch us play at the Ricoh, yes. Is this me forgiving Sisu, no. Is this me being a hypocrite, no. Would I rather Sisu fucked off, yes.

 

[The Gentleman]

I have changed my opinion, if you look back, from supporting ACL to believing both sides have a case to answer. This is based upon the council & ACLs lack of willingness to talk. One meeting where they were meant to discuss a purchase and offered a rental deal (it was not free rent if you check the facts) through a third party does not change things.

Were you at the meeting ?, were you made privy to all that was said ? You must be important then. I am sure ACL/CCC would rather keep something that they say is now starting to bear fruit wouldn't you agree ? So if I were them that would be the stance I would have taken, it is up to Sisu to make an offer if ACL/CCC if they want to buy it. But then if you know it all you must know if they made an offer, surely ? Also, can I have your landlords name please, I would love one that pays for my gas, electric, council tax, sky, phone, garden upkeep, decoration and everything else that comes with it.

 

[Nick]

Were you at the meeting ?, were you made privy to all that was said ? You must be important then. I am sure ACL/CCC would rather keep something that they say is now starting to bear fruit wouldn't you agree ? So if I were them that would be the stance I would have taken, it is up to Sisu to make an offer if ACL/CCC if they want to buy it. But then if you know it all you must know if they made an offer, surely ? Also, can I have your landlords name please, I would love one that pays for my gas, electric, council tax, sky, phone, garden upkeep, decoration and everything else that comes with it.

Have you got the link to where SISU have said they want ACL to pay all maintenance bills?

On another note, when people have bought houses and cars have they always paid the asking price or tried to get it for as little as possible?

 

[SkyBlueScottie]

What he has failed to do it to comprehend the horrendous slide in every aspect of our club since SISU's arrival; and at the same time fail it get answers to very basic questions. For example:

Why the insistence on freehold; when a long lease with low rents and access to football related; or SISU-inspired revenues should suffice?

What is the status with the new stadium? The paper trail of failed promises is easy to pick up on. If such uncertainty still abounds; why leave the Ricoh? For this season at least?!?

What's the plan to adhere now to FFP rules moving forward, irrespective of location, given the gross over estimation of Sixfields attendances?

When the above start to get addressed by Mr Reid, and the 'I've got 20 years experience' nonsense finishes; along with the pantomimesque and childish retweeting from his sycophants, I'll respect more his view. Until then, and with big issues still on the table seemingly unanswered, I don't think he has scrutinised all parties with equal endeavour

We can't keep on harking back to the previous regime though, can we? Besides, sustainability isn't the long term objective here is it? Otherwise we wouldn't be playing to a Montego full of men 40 miles away, would we?

Don't preach sustainability to me, when were currently less sustainable than we were under the rental agreement you're oh-so-quick to flap about

Why does he need to comprehend the slide under Sisu? take it as read he thinks they have contributed greatly to the currrent situation and take it as read he thinks they have been disastrous at other times, perhaps he ought to fill each article he writes with a list load of disclaimers about previous mistakes they have made. There is also the point that a lot of their previous disastrous decisions have been by and large about the football side of things, by and large they should have been covered by the sports journos, Reid has only ever really concentrated on this dispute.

Ref your questions, all are valid and need answering, I presume you are a member of the trust, can the Trust not propose these questions to Reid and perhaps start some meaningful dialogue with him, I see this as a win win situation as a strong relationship between the Trust and a journalist who is fairly well involved in the situation can only be a good thing.

 

[cochese]

I have changed my opinion, if you look back, from supporting ACL to believing both sides have a case to answer. This is based upon the council & ACLs lack of willingness to talk. One meeting where they were meant to discuss a purchase and offered a rental deal (it was not free rent if you check the facts) through a third party does not change things.

Were you at the meeting ?, were you made privy to all that was said ? You must be important then. I am sure ACL/CCC would rather keep something that they say is now starting to bear fruit wouldn't you agree ? So if I were them that would be the stance I would have taken, it is up to Sisu to make an offer if ACL/CCC if they want to buy it. But then if you know it all you must know if they made an offer, surely ? Also, can I have your landlords name please, I would love one that pays for my gas, electric, council tax, sky, phone, garden upkeep, decoration and everything else that comes with it.

here you go http://www.housematesrooms.co.uk/

admittedly Macclesfield might be a bit far away and it's only a room....

 

[The Gentleman]

Have you got the link to where SISU have said they want ACL to pay all maintenance bills?

On another note, when people have bought houses and cars have they always paid the asking price or tried to get it for as little as possible?

Why won't they take the deal then if all they have to pay is matchday costs ? Don't teams have to pay their way anymore or is it just Sisu who think they should never pay ? Can you tell me the justification for not taking the latest offer ?

We all want the best deal we can get. However, most people pay somewhere near the asking price, or is this not true ? do you see a house for 200k and make an offer of 50k and pitch a tent outside and make a racket to force them to move, don't be silly and before you or anyone comes back and says "but Sisu haven't made an offer so how do you know", if they want it, make an offer to buy it, the longer they drag this on only further alienates us as fans. Are you going to carry on going to Sixfields indefintely on the hope that Sisu get the Ricoh for next to nothing ?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Ref your questions, all are valid and need answering, I presume you are a member of the trust, can the Trust not propose these questions to Reid and perhaps start some meaningful dialogue with him, I see this as a win win situation as a strong relationship between the Trust and a journalist who is fairly well involved in the situation can only be a good thing.

Not a bad idea actually.

Reid thinks the trust aren't impartial and the rebuttals are either NO YOU'RE WRONG! or prove him wrong by working with him, not against him.

Or in trying to work with him, prove *him* wrong about his own impartiality.

 

[Nick]

Why won't they take the deal then if all they have to pay is matchday costs ? Don't teams have to pay their way anymore or is it just Sisu who think they should never pay ? Can you tell me the justification for not taking the latest offer ?

We all want the best deal we can get. However, most people pay somewhere near the asking price, or is this not true ? do you see a house for 200k and make an offer of 50k and pitch a tent outside and make a racket to force them to move, don't be silly and before you or anyone comes back and says "but Sisu haven't made an offer so how do you know", if they want it, make an offer to buy it, the longer they drag this on only further alienates us as fans. Are you going to carry on going to Sixfields indefintely on the hope that Sisu get the Ricoh for next to nothing ?

Where did I say I knew why they rejected it? I totally agree teams should pay their way and they are paying their way in Northampton so I don't think it is just the fact of having to pay their way, there must be more to it?

I think that independent valuations should be done (3 of) and then an average taken which gives the "value" and a starting figure and that is when offers can be made. The way some people speak is that SISU should pay nothing less than the build cost / value because tax payers will be outraged and hard done by.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Why won't they take the deal then if all they have to pay is matchday costs ? Don't teams have to pay their way anymore or is it just Sisu who think they should never pay ? Can you tell me the justification for not taking the latest offer ?

We all want the best deal we can get. However, most people pay somewhere near the asking price, or is this not true ? do you see a house for 200k and make an offer of 50k and pitch a tent outside and make a racket to force them to move, don't be silly and before you or anyone comes back and says "but Sisu haven't made an offer so how do you know", if they want it, make an offer to buy it, the longer they drag this on only further alienates us as fans. Are you going to carry on going to Sixfields indefintely on the hope that Sisu get the Ricoh for next to nothing ?

Because then ACL and CCC still benefit from CCFC despite the Sisu's request for a JR.