Some Feedback from Les on SBT Leagal Action (5 Viewers)

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Thats not his job to blindly support your conspiracy theories not matter how widely held they are.

A conspiracy only remains so whilst there's an absence of facts to either prove or disprove it. As such, Reid's lack of investigative thrust on the key issues you make reference to feeds the conspiracy theorist as it leave doubt lingering. Does that mean you now disagree with your first post?

 

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[Grendel]

You won't fucking reply to my point and decided to call me a twat instead! Fucking moron.

Says the poster who accuses me of being abusive. As soon as he is questioned out comes the same plethora of bilge.

 

[The Gentleman]

Where did I say I knew why they rejected it? I totally agree teams should pay their way and they are paying their way in Northampton so I don't think it is just the fact of having to pay their way, there must be more to it?

I think that independent valuations should be done (3 of) and then an average taken which gives the "value" and a starting figure and that is when offers can be made. The way some people speak is that SISU should pay nothing less than the build cost / value because tax payers will be outraged and hard done by.

Sisu want it for a lot less than what it is worth (we all know this) and you saying this sham of situation gets Sisu the Ricoh then so be it, is really saying that though isn't it ? I am a Building Surveyor and it would be very easy to put a value on the Ricoh actually, so if Sisu are actually interested in it then get three valuations for a happy medium, then a satisfactory bid can actually be made by Sisu or anybody else for that matter. Not rocket science, not a murky world where all facts are not known, just simple honest good business practice. Which is pretty much from what I can gather is what the council have asked for.

Above is exactly what I said a few pages ago, but why won't they do it ?

 

[ArchieLittle]

There needs to be a basis for discussion between the parties first.
Valuations are all well and good, but the way the market is at present I know that if my house was valued, it may well be a "fair" valuation but not a value I would be prepared to sell at.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

so if Sisu are actually interested in it then get three valuations for a happy medium, then a satisfactory bid can actually be made by Sisu or anybody else for that matter.

You won't get an argument with me there either. It'd, after all, then call the council's bluff if they can point to a figure.

I'd even suspect the value of the stadium would be substantially less than some of the outlandish figures bandied about on here too, so it'd even engage the rules of debate at a more realistic level for SISU.

 

[The Gentleman]

Because then ACL and CCC still benefit from CCFC despite the Sisu's request for a JR.

Well then we are truely fucked. Surely they could have accepted the deal whilst still pressing on with this ? the only people who would benefit would be us playing at HOME. I know of council tenants who sue councils for problems in their houses whilst they still live there and pay rent. Is this not similar ?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Well then we are truely fucked. Surely they could have accepted the deal whilst still pressing on with this ? the only people who would benefit would be us playing at HOME. I know of council tenants who sue councils for problems in their houses whilst they still live there and pay rent. Is this not similar ?

Sisu are trying to make things as difficult as possible for CCC at this time, Sisu know that CCC don't have an exteneded budget to take this war through the courts so it's cutting off one of their supply line's in the Arena that would be my guess anyhow.

 

[lewys33]

I quite enjoy watching coventry fans justify why we are still playing at northampton. Where is my popcorn ........

 

[magic82ball]

It is even more annoying when you must be able to calculate a percentage of blame to please some people.

Speaking for myself here Nick I think what grates with me is a seeming reluctance from some to accredit any blame with SISU. It seems the same people, yourself included, jumping to the defence of what has to be the worst ownership in the clubs history, and what for? because you and others feel there are more parties to blame. Maybe there are, but this does not absolve SISU of any blame surely? Hence why people get angry when the usual suspects spring to their defence.

Putting aside the ground move, there is enough ammunition for most right-minded people to crucify SISU for a lifetime so why defend them all the time? Or does an attack on SISU now need to come with percentages of blame attached to please some people in the name of balance?

 

[Noggin]

The problem always has been, and this is the problem with SISU full-stop, it becomes wilful smoke and mirrors, the introduction of doubt in order to play the game... but the problem has always been that there's a relatively neutral and appropriate financial argument to be made that you take a short term hit for the long term gain. If the club came back with a valid deal that allows them to be sustainable going forward, and the club grows as a result, then it's a valid tactic.

Again though what do you mean by long term gain? because I get the impression you mean a painful 5 years for gain after that, I don't accept that there is an appropriate financial arguement for that in the slightest. many people, including myself if I remember correctly produced some example figures many months ago to show how much worse off building the stadium makes us. If you mean long term 25-30 years kinda long term then I accept thats a different discussion.

 

[Nick]

Speaking for myself here Nick I think what grates with me is a seeming reluctance from some to accredit any blame with SISU. It seems the same people, yourself included, jumping to the defence of what has to be the worst ownership in the clubs history, and what for? because you and others feel there are more parties to blame. Maybe there are, but this does not absolve SISU of any blame surely? Hence why people get angry when the usual suspects spring to their defence.

Putting aside the ground move, there is enough ammunition for most right-minded people to crucify SISU for a lifetime so why defend them all the time? Or does an attack on SISU now need to come with percentages of blame attached to please some people in the name of balance?

I think because sometimes the blame for SISU is common sense so doesn't need to be said in every thread. Nobody has ever said they are blameless and by saying "how can you blame sisu" when Jordan Clarke misses a header or something equally as random.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Again though what do you mean by long term gain? because I get the impression you mean a painful 5 years for gain after that, I don't accept that there is an appropriate financial arguement for that in the slightest. many people, including myself if I remember correctly produced some example figures many months ago to show how much worse off building the stadium makes us. If you mean long term 25-30 years kinda long term then I accept thats a different discussion.

Course I mean 25-30 years. i was actually thinking 50 years plus!

In my view the custodians of the club have a duty to set it up not necessarily for me, but the fruit of my loins and those who go after them.

That's the difference between a club and a business, and the problem with the trap football as a whole falls into. It's all about jam today, and sod what happens tomorrow.

 

[Covstu]

Sisu are trying to make things as difficult as possible for CCC at this time, Sisu know that CCC don't have an exteneded budget to take this war through the courts so it's cutting off one of their supply line's in the Arena that would be my guess anyhow.

But we are making the assumption that SISU want to come back to Cov and more specifically the Ricoh arnt we? They have already told us that this is plan B, plan A is to build again. Whether that is reality or not this is what the current stance is, this might also explain why no deal can be done i.e. they dont really want it but if CCC accept a stupidly low offer then it can work for SISU.

We have one side saying they can live without a football club and the other saying they dont want to return unless they own it lock, stock. They are both lying IMO but if this remains, the reality is that we will never get back.

Personally i wish we could just know either way and put us out of our misery!

 

[skybluetony176]

I quite enjoy watching coventry fans justify why we are still playing at northampton. Where is my popcorn ........

if i get a big bag of revels can i join you. i'll have the coffe ones.

 

[Noggin]

Course I mean 25-30 years. i was actually thinking 50 years plus!

In my view the custodians of the club have a duty to set it up not necessarily for me, but the fruit of my loins and those who go after them.

That's the difference between a club and a business, and the problem with the trap football as a whole falls into. It's all about jam today, and sod what happens tomorrow.

Fair enough thanks, I agree building a stadium could be beneficial to the club over the very long term, though this isn't the way to go about it, in fact saving up the money over a period of say 15 years and building it without loans at all while continuing to play in coventry would be the best way. You'd also have that pot of money ready to buy the ricoh should it become available.

Of course we don't have the income to save up a pot of money but that also means we dont have the income to pay interest on loans of 20+mill.

 

[magic82ball]

I am not happy with the current situation in the slightest, however the club needs to own it's full stadium now whether that is the Ricoh, Highfield Road or Lego Land it needs to be owned by the club to maximise revenues. If this sham of a situation helps us to return to the Ricoh as owners of the Freehold as painful as it says to say it should be done.

Don't be naïve enough to think either

1) Owning the Ricoh would be for the benefit of CCFC and not SISU.
2) The damage done by SISU in the tactics used would be undone by acquiring the Ricoh. SISU's appalling PR job will ensure there will be plenty of stay away fans even after a return. As well as a potentially lost generation of fans should this debacle extend to the full 5 years as I would expect.

You are right in what you say that there needs to be a sustainable model in place, that cannot be argued, to my mind the best solution for CCFC given the council/ACL reluctance to sell would have been to rent long term on a revised rental agreement that suits both parties. From what I understand from offers made recently, this would be achievable, but of course this would not be what is best for SISU. What is best for CCFC and what is best for SISU are two very different things. Don't be fooled by the propaganda.

 

[magic82ball]

I think because sometimes the blame for SISU is common sense so doesn't need to be said in every thread. Nobody has ever said they are blameless and by saying "how can you blame sisu" when Jordan Clarke misses a header or something equally as random.

If everyone agrees that they are not blameless, why is there thread after thread of pointless bickering between one faction of supporters and another? Is it the oppositions crusade to be fair minded and balanced? That would be all well and good should there be parity in blame, but there evidently isn't! SISU are scoundrels and have proven they don't have the supporters interest in mind time and time again, there is no need, or foundation to support them all the bloody time!

EDIT: Re-reading your post I will agree that they are not to blame for Jordan Clarke being a little bit shit, or every ill that befalls our club in a match, if anything I would say this is one area, since relegation they have done rather well, but this doesn't excuse them selling every tom dick and harry knowing we would get relegated in the first place.

 

[lewys33]

if i get a big bag of revels can i join you. I'll have the coffe ones.

sorted!

 

[Noggin]

Les Reid fails to comdemn it, in fact he misrepresents it instead, saying

@TheSkyBlueTrust's now published #CCFC letter. Seems to advise removing @guardian article link IF #CCFC takes action http://www.skybluetrust.co.uk/attachments/article/324/slet.png …

which isn't what it says at all.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

But we are making the assumption that SISU want to come back to Cov and more specifically the Ricoh arnt we? They have already told us that this is plan B, plan A is to build again. Whether that is reality or not this is what the current stance is, this might also explain why no deal can be done i.e. they dont really want it but if CCC accept a stupidly low offer then it can work for SISU.

We have one side saying they can live without a football club and the other saying they dont want to return unless they own it lock, stock. They are both lying IMO but if this remains, the reality is that we will never get back.

Personally i wish we could just know either way and put us out of our misery!

Completely agree.

 

[sky blue john]

Read the statement John, Les has said previously that he has written political articles for the Guardian !!!!!

I must admit to not seeing that part maybe that was the point i was losing the will to live.

 

[wingy]

Have you got the link to where SISU have said they want ACL to pay all maintenance bills?

On another note, when people have bought houses and cars have they always paid the asking price or tried to get it for as little as possible?

Why don't you listen to this @ 6.30 mins in http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...shire_Sport_The_Sky_Blues_phonein_06_12_2013/

It certainly Implies that they don't recognise what are genuine matchday costs to any football club owner ,and were to Fisher last season @ £10K. per game ,Why Insist Its rent when It clearly Is'nt .

He seems Innaccurate also suggesting Nil lamptey revealed the deal ,not accurate ,and then when Clive asks come back for the fans ,when anyone feels the need to say Quite Honestly after their response Is being Insincere.

 

[lewys33]

Les Reid fails to comdemn it, in fact he misrepresents it instead, saying

@TheSkyBlueTrust's now published #CCFC letter. Seems to advise removing @guardian article link IF #CCFC takes action http://www.skybluetrust.co.uk/attachments/article/324/slet.png …

which isn't what it says at all.

aww bless him!

 

[oldskyblue58]

was thinking when was the last time ACL, the Council or Charity actually gave an interview and were questioned rather than issued a statement? Was guessing it was around early August.

Anyone know?

 

[The Prefect]

Why don't you listen to this @ 6.30 mins in http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...shire_Sport_The_Sky_Blues_phonein_06_12_2013/

It certainly Implies that they don't recognise what are genuine matchday costs to any football club owner ,and were to Fisher last season @ £10K. per game ,Why Insist Its rent when It clearly Is'nt .

He seems Innaccurate also suggesting Nil lamptey revealed the deal ,not accurate ,and then when Clive asks come back for the fans ,when anyone feels the need to say Quite Honestly after their response Is being Insincere.

You didn't really listen closely enough... ACL's statement indicated that there was no rent however, they're asking the club to cover their (ACL's) costs of granting them the use of the facility. I'd see this as ACL wanting the club to pay their costs for the upkeep of the pitch and the facility but no rent for using it. It's not unreasonable as ACL shouldn't be subsidising the club to use the facility. That it would be £12,000 a game doesn't surprise me. The club will be paying a good proportion of this to play at Sixfields. My guess is that the club will be paying rent to Northampton but they'll also be paying for maintenance and wear and tear to the pitch etc. so I'm not sure what the point is. Rent is not delaps - any business that temporarily rents a location knows that.

It's difficult. Whatever one side says the other will say there is an issue. ML doesn't bring anything new to the debate - it's the same old theme we've heard a hundred times before. I'm not buying the problem with the offer for the Ricoh going through third parties. SISU seem willing to let third parties do their bidding (think the Trust letter about the Guardian) yet complain when ACL do the same.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

was thinking when was the last time ACL, the Council or Charity actually gave an interview and were questioned rather than issued a statement? Was guessing it was around early August.

Anyone know?

Weren't they questioned by Cov Back to Ricoh (CBTR) last week or week before?

 

[Nick]

Didn't Tim Fisher say that everything was included as part of the rent?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Didn't Tim Fisher say that everything was included as part of the rent?

No, and even he knows that. A whilst withholding rent, they continued to pay such match-day costs; although latterly he did claim some of these match-day costs were a signal of their payments to ACL and therefore their 'reasonableness'. Ahem

 

[Nick]

Sorry, I meant at Sixfields. His words were:

At Northampton, Rent includes; all stadium related first team match day services including pitch maintenance, utilities, refuse collection and covers the following facilities - the pitch, the stadium, the stadium seating, the changing rooms, hospitality suites and banqueting areas, match day staff facilities, media facilities.

The stadium also provide all catering staff, all grounds men. The licensee (the club) separately provide stewards, crowd doctor, crowd ambulance, player ambulance.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Weren't they questioned by Cov Back to Ricoh (CBTR) last week or week before?

You mean the stuff that was reported on the Nii Lamptey pod cast Robo? Wasnt an interview with ACL or Charity though, was two council officers. Aside from that I dont remember much else do you?

 

[wingy]

You mean the stuff that was reported on the Nii Lamptey pod cast Robo? Wasnt an interview with ACL or Charity though, was two council officers. Aside from that I dont remember much else do you?

Was that an Interview or two fans who had requested a chat ?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

You mean the stuff that was reported on the Nii Lamptey pod cast Robo? Wasnt an interview with ACL or Charity though, was two council officers. Aside from that I dont remember much else do you?

No I remember a Tweet about Ann Lucas was going to be attending a small Q&A with the Cov Back to Ricoh group after the JR Review decision. Must have been a week ago now OSB.

 

[oldskyblue58]

must have missed that ........... has there been any report back on it?

Still doesnt include the other two members of the trilogy though

 

[valiant15]

Sorry, I meant at Sixfields. His words were:

Banqueting areas pmsl.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

must have missed that ........... has there been any report back on it?

Still doesnt include the other two members of the trilogy though

I haven't seen anything since.