Astute
Well-Known Member
Anyone who replaces players lost without heavily relying on youth players coming through has more ambitions than us.
Sandra Garlick (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter mark_ccfc
- Start date
Anyone who replaces players lost without heavily relying on youth players coming through has more ambitions than us.
Sky Blue Dal
Well-Known Member
A man on death row has more ambition than us!!!
Sky Blue Dal
Well-Known Member
No!!
Torch, stop manipulating history .. you know the day Richardson sold Highfield Road was the start of the club being financially damaged. ACL bleeding us dry is what you want to believe and you are way of the mark.
Oh and SISU knew about the rent before they bought the club. There lack of due diligence cannot be blamed on ACL. Business was done between the two parties and contracts signed, knowing what the rent was.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Everyone knows this. The problem Torch has is trying to stick up for SISUE. You have to feel sorry for him as it isn't easy after what they have done to our club and us fans.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So you've no issue with us being in Northampton have you. A new company owns the club they don't like the rent deal having done a due dillegence and business was done with Northampton town,
Astute
Well-Known Member
You can't have. You stick up for them at least as much as anyone else.
So why did they take so many years before doing anything about it and why won't they take us back for free this season and for less than they pay Northampton whilst building a stadium of their own whilst making millions more each season in income whilst giving us fans what we want?
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
With 'fans' such as you, with such a flippant regard for the roots and heritage of the club and it's associated city who's name it bears, is why our owners have been able to oversee the decline they have. You should be decrying it from the rooftops at every opportunity, not offering lame and smug support for the unjustifiable
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
Please justify to me how we need a bigger stadium then 22,000 based on the last 11 years average attendance stats:
00/01 20,582
01/02 16,150
02/03 14,812
03/04 14,816
04/05 16,047
05/06 21,031
06/07 20,342
07/08 19,123
08/09 17,407
09/10 17,305
10/11 16,309
11/12 15,118
12/13 10,948
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fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I think your thinking is fundamentally flawed. The club cannot afford to continue to pay fees and wages for new signings. The club doesn't and hasn't earned enough money to do so for a long time (at least 18 years).
Was signing Kevin Kyle and Leon McKenzie in a panic demonstrating ambition?
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Discussing any stadium capacity is an exercise in the fruitless, as you're all arguing over an irrelevance that'll never happen. It's akin to me lying awake at night wondering which sexual position I'll employ first when I finally bed Scarlett Johansson after charming her at Dandos Walsgrave...
Sky Blue Dal
Well-Known Member
Yes of course like you, I have an issue with City playing at Northampton (hence reason why you don't attend matches at sixfields) but don't you think the same company with a different name having done there due diligence with Northampton was a lesson learnt from there woe's with ACL.
There is a saying my dear mother hammered into me, always learn from your mistakes!! I can see SISU/OTIUM have in this case but its a bit too late now.
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Astute
Well-Known Member
So the averages don't show how many games had above this amount whilst being close to what it would hold. Saying that the numbers have drastically gone down since SISUE took over so you could be right if they stay
Due diligence is done before you purchase a company. You check out such things as liabilities e.g. rent contracts - how much do they cost, how long is the rental contract etc.. You don't normally go on to take on the rental contract and then five years later say " it's bleeding me dry " what am I doing here? " " the landlord is rapacious". You just say " I am not purchasing this company so long as the rent deal is like it is" and then you go away or the landlord offers a better deal. Simple really. They only have a short contract at Northampton, renewable every year so it's not difficult to see what the Maximum liability is.
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
So the averages don't show how many games had above this amount whilst being close to what it would hold. Saying that the numbers have drastically gone down since SISUE took over so you could be right if they stay
I will look at the amount of times we have gone over 22,000 and poost it shortly, I don't think you can put the decrease in attendances down to Sisu solely, the novelty of the Ricoh must have started to wear off, the team was no closer to promotion before and during Sisu and prices from what I had always seen froze at a similar amount.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The reason given by SISU for needing this new ground is we need access to more revenues. Since moving to the Ricoh there have been 54 games where the attendance has been greater than will be possible in the proposed new stadium, that's a lot of lost revenue in ticket sales alone. That is before you even begin to consider the huge drop off in attendances that we have seen under SISUs ownership and also ignoring the fact that we could, as unlikley as it seems at the moment, one day be back in the premier league. The new stadium is fine if everyone is happy being a low end championship / league 1 side.
Astute
Well-Known Member
And you will also have to consider all seats lost through segregation. And after that you would have to sell allocations fully of home and away fans as both would cause ticket losses. So maybe 20k from a 22k stadium?
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
So since moving to the Ricoh we have not filled the Ricoh on half of the occasions we have played! There is no justification for a ground bigger than between 20,000-25,000. The drop off in attendances cannot be blamed solely on Sisu, yes they've continued to dip since they took over but they dipped before they took over, they were on the way down.
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
Which considering our attendance average for eleven seasons including one season in the Premier League (albeit relegation season) would be absolutely suitable for this clubs needs, yes we have had higher attendances during the first few years during the Ricoh years and when the big boys came to town or when we had derby fixtures, but except that it doesn't tally.
lifelongcityfan
Well-Known Member
they were on the way down due to the complete lack of success and succesive relegations. The decline has markedly increased since SISU have arrived
If we get once scent of success the gates will rise
If we get once scent of success the gates will rise
The whole point of being a sports club in a league is to acheive sporting success. Or at least it was… If you restrict the stadium size, you are admitting that we are where we are and we will never rise again. This may be true, but that is not the point. The dream must be there that things can get better - or why are the team even trying? Do we want to be league 1? I followed a Premier club from a city with a population of over 300,000 plus a catchment area around it. We are not Rotherham and we don't need a Rotherham II stadium in a village or small town in the countryside. The potential to pull over 25000 is still there, as the Crewe match proved. We may be an asset on a Hedge Fund's balance sheet at the moment, but let's hope we return to being a football club at some time.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Good point. Crewe game was sold out despite the attendance being about 1300 below capacity.
HR used to be "sold out" at about 22k despite the capacity being well over 23k.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
So your argument is that if we ignore all the big games where the crowd would be too big for the proposed stadium the ground will be big enough?
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
As I said previously the average attendances do not lie, since we have been at the Ricoh we have not averaged beyond 22,000 a season.
Why should a ground be built that has bigger attendance only the third of the time in which we have been a stadium that has been able to hold that capacity?
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ccfcway
Well-Known Member
Is "Dandos" a bit like "freshco" in Corrie ?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
What your missing is the financial accounts that show we were giving many tickets away - Colchester is a game where we had 25,000 as tickets were £5. Many of the other games offered guests of season ticket holders massive discounts.
If the club managed to really sell out in say an 18,000 stadium
Revenue would be much higher than any season in the Ricoh.
Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
I surprised Fisher doesn't want a bigger ground as surely he would think it's better to have 25,000 at £5 than 18,000 at a higher price, as a few extra people might buy a pie, or maybe a pack of Minstrels.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Well that argument can be levelled at any expenditure.
The Ricoh added 5k fans onto the gate on its own. At £10/ticket average that's £1.15m over the season, before you add in sponsorship or the pull for players/managers, etc. For a club expecting to go up not down I'd say that's a fair return.
The mistake the club made was (as always in those days) not thinking it was going to get any worse. They should've agreed to the sliding scale, either originally or now.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Specs WT-R75
Well-Known Member
Assuming a new stadium has to happen...12k or 20k I don't really care as long as the prospective site has the potential to expand.
There is no point having a 32k stadium when your average attendances are 11k in league 1... however, the ability to add a stand or even 2 stands to the stadium when promotions are achieved would need to be part of the plans. Ideally with the stands constructed in such a way that it would not need to be closed to add the additional tiers...
A german-style safe-standing area would be awesome... possibly cheaper if the conversion to seating wasn't compulsory from the offset.
I'd like to see the council call Sisue's bluff. Offer to sell them land with permission inside the city... then if the club did buy that land then there would then be no logical reason why a short term lease on the Ricoh would not be possible... on the other hand if the council did offer land and it was still rejected then we know for sure that aquiring the Ricoh is the only thing sisue are after....
My 2cs.
Specs
There is no point having a 32k stadium when your average attendances are 11k in league 1... however, the ability to add a stand or even 2 stands to the stadium when promotions are achieved would need to be part of the plans. Ideally with the stands constructed in such a way that it would not need to be closed to add the additional tiers...
A german-style safe-standing area would be awesome... possibly cheaper if the conversion to seating wasn't compulsory from the offset.
I'd like to see the council call Sisue's bluff. Offer to sell them land with permission inside the city... then if the club did buy that land then there would then be no logical reason why a short term lease on the Ricoh would not be possible... on the other hand if the council did offer land and it was still rejected then we know for sure that aquiring the Ricoh is the only thing sisue are after....
My 2cs.
Specs
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
The new ground will be 12000. Have I missed something?
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Yes 5 years to get 12,000 then how long before they see fit to expand.
Also the Arguments that they have to own the stadium to be able to sell have now fallen flat.
How much is a football team worth with a maximum 12,000 stadium.(how much is Northampton worth) they will have a similar size ground.
So any new owner will have to knock it down and rebuild if the team became successful utter madness
Also the Arguments that they have to own the stadium to be able to sell have now fallen flat.
How much is a football team worth with a maximum 12,000 stadium.(how much is Northampton worth) they will have a similar size ground.
So any new owner will have to knock it down and rebuild if the team became successful utter madness