Why a new ground is the fair way forward (9 Viewers)

[cloughie]

Many, many posters on here proclaim that ACL and the council do not need the football. Many, many posters claim the club being at the Ricoh is a handicap.

Lots of other events could take place in the arena. Big truck racing (whatever that is) Northampton saints or Saracens rugby club, international show jumping, all year round rock concerts. Many believe that the facility souls outdo the NEC without the millstone of a football club. Apparently its worth many more millions than the club could afford and is a gold mine with the potential of new hotels. Again sure we are selfish to deny these scores of investors queuing for a piece of the action.

The backdrop to this is a council struggling to meet budgets and predictions of local service cuts and redundancies. So, surely the solution is obvious. The council identifies suitable sites in the city. It could sell unwanted land generating revenue and jobs while the Ricoh thrives as everyone says it will without the football club

Even you know that all council funds are ring fenced to each individual budge/ department. This affects nothing to do with cuts and redundunancies as you well know more smoke and mirrors

Seems a familiar theme from sisu also

PS sorry if I have missed capitals or punctuation , but I believe you can still read it

 

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[Grendel]

You do not believe they will build a new stadium. So a bit of a pointless post.

Hold on - yesterday you said the Ricoh is worth £60 million. That would wipe the budget defecit for the council. So if it is worth that there have to be interested parties (which you always say there are) who would pay the price. This isn't about sisu its about the council. Surely with this £60 million goldmine it's gross negligence if they do not sell to one of these many interested parties isn't it?

 

[Grendel]

Even you know that all council funds are ring fenced to each individual budge/ department. This affects nothing to do with cuts and redundunancies as you well know more smoke and mirrors

Seems a familiar theme from sisu also

PS sorry if I have missed capitals or punctuation , but I believe you can still read it

What is this do to with anything? You have said the sale of the Ricoh effects the taxpayer? Doesn't it then?

 

[ccfcway]

Hold on - yesterday you said the Ricoh is worth £60 million. That would wipe the budget defecit for the council. So if it is worth that there have to be interested parties (which you always say there are) who would pay the price. This isn't about sisu its about the council. Surely with this £60 million goldmine it's gross negligence if they do not sell to one of these many interested parties isn't it?

what do you think its worth grendal ?

 

[Houdi]

If you are selling the surrounding land for retail then it needs to be near Coventry. No point in having a shopping centre at Ryton or Brandon, nobody would go.
Also if you buy 60acres of green belt and sell it as retail to make your money, why hasn't someone else done it ? So many question.

There is already a new retail centre by Morrisons which I believe is struggling to attract tenants at Binley. From what was said last night, there is no chance of SISU ever considering a site within the jurisdiction of CCC. Any announcement of land purchase etc is many many months away, was the clear message .It is a hugely complicated time consuming process apparently. Of course some fans may just conclude it is just more meaningless spin.

 

[ccfcway]

There is already a new retail centre by Morrisons which I believe is struggling to attract tenants at Binley. From what was said last night, there is no chance of SISU ever considering a site within the jurisdiction of CCC. Any announcement of land purchase etc is many many months away, was the clear message .It is a hugely complicated time consuming process apparently. Of course some fans may just conclude it is just more meaningless spin.

wouldnt be SISU if it wasnt a "hugely complicated time consuming process"

 

[Grendel]

Simple. Coventry fans don't want a 12000 seater stadium that will mean we give up any ambition of Premier League.
Even Sisue don't really want it. A loyal few keep fighting their corner for them but they just provide something for us to laugh at and chastise.
Just do the figures, get back to the Ricoh and work on a relationship that will get the desired ownership and income.
Give up on your goal of using the club to make your money. In fact do us all a favour and fcku off.

This has nothing to do with SISU. You said the arena could be used for many other things -- it could take over from the NEC and Olympia for international show jumping. I'm with you. If it's a 12,000 stadium then so be it if it means the Coventry taxpayer benefits from the Arena realising its full potential and rivalling the NEC.

Or now are you saying we must disadvantage the tax payer and have the club back at the Arena even though ACL and the arena would then be preventing from hosting all these world class events and rock concerts all year round?

That's a very selfish view isn't it?

 

[skybluebal]

Dare I say there will be no new ground built by SISU.

Its Ricoh on the cheap or bust.

 

[cloughie]

What is this do to with anything? You have said the sale of the Ricoh effects the taxpayer? Doesn't it then?

Yes its an asset of Coventry City council / taxpayer and please explain why it should be given away for free or well below market value.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Hold on - yesterday you said the Ricoh is worth £60 million. That would wipe the budget defecit for the council. So if it is worth that there have to be interested parties (which you always say there are) who would pay the price. This isn't about sisu its about the council. Surely with this £60 million goldmine it's gross negligence if they do not sell to one of these many interested parties isn't it?

The problem with selling an asset to bail out an annual deficit, if this is all that happens, is that the deficit will be back next year. So you will be in the same position, except that you no longer have that asset either. It will be better to sort out the underlying problem, and keep the asset, maybe even try to generate some income from it.

But I suspect you already know this, you cheeky monkey.

 

[Grendel]

Yes its an asset of Coventry City council / taxpayer and please explain why it should be given away for free or well below market value.

I haven't said that. It's a goldmine that makes the NEC look second rate. Screw sisu sell under their nose to one of the scores of property developers desperate to buy into it. It's selfish to even consider the club occupying such an asset - I'm converted Cloughie - sell it or get one of the scores of other tenants in.
The Council must be laughing. Maximise the asset and then they could offer some scrubland for SISU to buy and develop themselves.

 

[ccfcway]

Maximise the asset and then they could offer some scrubland for SISU to buy and develop themselves.

Ah, SISU who have developed 10,000 fans into less than 2,000

I wouldnt trust them to develop a film, let alone a stadium

 

[Harry Krishner]

Maybe we could have two football clubs..Coventry City and Coventry Utd.. one at the old ground and one at the new.

Like.

 

[ccfcway]

Maybe we could have two football clubs..Coventry City and Coventry Utd.. one at the old ground and one at the new.

Like.

and coventry sphinx

 

[kmj5000]

wouldnt be SISU if it wasnt a "hugely complicated time consuming process"

It's taken Tim more than 4 months to realise that - he said back July that they were weeks away from buying the land, and then his professional advisers said the same a month later.

With SiSUE it's bullshit after bullshit and it fools no-one.

 

[ccfcway]

but the good news is, his is now concentrating on it
:thinking about:

 

[Como]

I would not have thought that SISU have the in house property development expertise, it is not their area.

They would need to partner with someone who has.

Now I find it hard to believe they would want to do all of this, but 60 acres with development potential will not be cheap, I have no idea of what the going rate is. We then have a small part being allocated for Football, the rest would have to be developed.

It seems that the tail would be wagging the dog, if this is all about making a return what does Football add to it, better chance of getting planning permission?

Why would someone want to sell such a prime spot on the cheap to SISU, just seems to me that SISU would be digging themselves a deeper whole taking on such a project.

Makes no sense. But then very little does.

The only way they can make money out of the team would be a couple of promotions and then find an Oligarch to take it on. The chances of that seem very very slim.

As an aside there are quite a few US Government Pension Funds that need a return of 8% plus to be solvent, and have been going into higher risk strategies.

Quite how this one will produce any return is beyond me, but not all Hedge 'investments' will.

 

[Hobo]

Grendel as usual takes the facts and gives them a little twist to suit his argument.

There is a difference between the Ricoh being able to pay its own way without the football club and it's profitability appeal with it. As ACL and CCC have said we would rather have the club.

The other argument about council deficits and budgets..already answered by a poster you can either have it as an on going profit making concern or sell it once. If you sell off all the family silver what then?

Regarding SISU's expertise to develop the Ricoh, Joy Seppala claims that her and her partner are experts in real estate and that is their background?

I believe CCC problem with SISU is 1 they have never made an offer 2 They don't want to pay anyway near the market value 3 I think the most important, they haven't put forward their plans and vision as to how they would develop it. So CCC can't judge how the sale would benefit CCFC and the city.

 

[@richh87]

We don't need a new stadium in Coventry. The Ricoh is a fantastic venue. What we need is to have new owners who want to run a football club - not some unscrupulous investors who use us to bully a council.

How much did SISU contribute towards building the Ricoh again? Oh yes - sod all.

They are bullies. They've taken CCFC to Northampton to hold it to ransom. I see this as a personal battle between us and them.

We need to think what will happen in the longer term. We should form a fan owned breakaway club - then we could control our future. If SISU ever decided to leave CCFC we could take it off their hands and reincorporate the breakaway team.

SISU are counting on us having no balls and waiting 5-10 years before they build a stadium. Even then it won't be in Coventry.

Let's stick it to SISU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Otis]

A hell of a lot more people would be all over a new gound if it wasn't Sisu behind the plans. All I'm bothered about it having us playing in Coventry (or just outside).

Not quite the same for me, Hill.

Personally I think it is incredibly short-sighted to be thinking of a 12,000-15,000 seater stadium (if that is what it is to be). The Ricoh is NOT too big for us. If we were top end of the Championship or in the Premier then we would be getting crowds in the 20,000's regularly.

Nowt wrong with the Ricoh. It's only the lack of success on the pitch that has made the place seem soulless.

Let's say for instance we did a Southampton and suddenly got 2 promotions in 2 years and made the Premiership. This expansion nonsense of a new stadium simply couldn't keep up with such progress.

We all know that if we had say a 15,000 stadium and were suddenly promoted, there is no way the stadium could be just expanded at the drop of a hat and in the close season.

For me I am totally against a new stadium because of the size of the stadium being mooted. Very narrow minded and short-sighted thinking. We need to be thinking bigger, because we all know that if we had the success on the pitch the crowds would rise significantly and would easliy be top 20,000 on a regular basis.

I think building something that is say 15,000 is defeatism and not forward thinking.

The key to everything is success on the pitch, not the stadium. If we had 25,000 at the Ricoh every week we wouldn't be in the mess we are now. How do we get 25,000 every week at the Ricoh? By having a successful CCFC team on the field of play.

The way things are being talked about is to splash out an awful lot of money for us to downsize and that for me is not the way to go, unless of course we just want to resign ourselves to being a lower league club for the foreseeable future.

Yes, the Ricoh is too big for us .... at the moment!

I am totally opposed to any new stadium because I feel this will be resigning ourselves into accepting we are just a lower league club and will remain that way.

The Ricoh is a fab stadium and is perfecty geared up for the Premiership and that surely has to be the ultimate aim for us hasn't it?

I just don't buy this expansion nonsense. The talk seems to be like we can just bolt something extra on with just a few weeks notice as soon as we have any success.

We have a perfectly decent stadium already here in Coventry and that is where we should play.

 

[really!]

There will not be a new stadium
The only prospect of a coventry city going forward is if sisu acquire the ricoh, and then are allowed to sell something of value

I passionately am anti - sisu - but this is not guess work, but from somebody in the know.
We need to hope that sisu get the ricoh - and soon

 

[jas365]

Excellent post Otis.

One of the other major issues for me in all this is regarding ownership of either a new stadium (won't happen) or the Ricoh. If SISU were eventually able to acquire the Ricoh for a massively reduced price (as they will never pay market value), I would feel better about if it were kept on the balance sheet of the football club and the club kept all the income streams and benefits, but we just know that won't happen.

SISU want the Ricoh for the benefit of SISU and not for the benefit of the football club.

 

[James Smith]

If SISU have no intention of building a new ground and everyone is in favour of that then I would expect them to change tack. If there is a groundswell of opinion in favour of a new stadium, then people will appear to try and dampen this new found interest and attempt to steer us back to thinking about the Ricoh. Maybe suggesting that the site(s) are proving difficult for a variety of reasons or something else, but always attempting to dissuade us from thoughts of the new stadium.

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Sisu haven't got the money for a new stadium, it's a joke which is obvious given the lack of any real progress, obvious to any but the dim like Grendull.

Sisu go and a new fit and proper owner buy the Ricoh.

 

[Grendel]

Sisu haven't got the money for a new stadium, it's a joke which is obvious given the lack of any real progress, obvious to any but the dim like Grendull.

Sisu go and a new fit and proper owner buy the Ricoh.

I think the real purpose of this thread has clearly gone above your head

Never mind

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

I think the concept of Sisu being the owner responsible for the success and well being of all aspects of CCFC, has never entered your head Grendull.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Otis...Let's say for instance we did a Southampton and suddenly got 2 promotions in 2 years and made the Premiership. This expansion nonsense of a new stadium simply couldn't keep up with such progress. We all know that if we had say a 15,000 stadium and were suddenly promoted, there is no way the stadium could be just expanded at the drop of a hat and in the close season.................................................................................................................................................................................................................This is the same scenario as Blackpool, restricted to 8-10k when promoted, and didn't have the financial backing to buy good players to "Make a fist" of staying up. Their ground capacity is now around 16-18k but nowhere near good enough to compete in the Premier League.

 

[Otis]

Otis...Let's say for instance we did a Southampton and suddenly got 2 promotions in 2 years and made the Premiership. This expansion nonsense of a new stadium simply couldn't keep up with such progress. We all know that if we had say a 15,000 stadium and were suddenly promoted, there is no way the stadium could be just expanded at the drop of a hat and in the close season.................................................................................................................................................................................................................This is the same scenario as Blackpool, restricted to 8-10k when promoted, and didn't have the financial backing to buy good players to "Make a fist" of staying up. Their ground capacity is now around 16-18k but nowhere near good enough to compete in the Premier League.

Yep.

Also we have to look at what the proposal for a new stadium would be. Hand on heart here (whatever side you are on), what do you think it will be? A brand new state of the art, brilliantly designed stadium, or a cheap build, get it up quick, cheap and cheery effort?

With money very much the issue here, I can only see it being the latter.

Could well be we move from an excellent Premiership standard stadium with great facilities, to a cheap build effort with less than half the capacity and something that simply wouldn't be able to compete at the highest level.

 

[Joy Division]

I think the real purpose of this thread has clearly gone above your head

Never mind

What was the purpose of this thread?

 

[lewys33]

There are a couple of fair solutions I think.

1. Purchase the Ricoh at market value

2. Build a new stadium in Coventry but play at the Ricoh whilst that happens


Surely if SISU came out and said we want to buy PLOT X in Coventry to build the new stadium, however the council wont sell to us out of spite, then I would be the first to say lets put pressure on the council to sell PLOT X to them to build the stadium? I also think that we should be putting pressure on SISU to play at the Ricoh to accept the latest rent offer whilst they build their new stadium.

Building a stadium outside of Coventry is not an option for me (obviously I am not going to be childish and say the border is half a mile away that is it!)

 

[Grendel]

Yep.

Also we have to look at what the proposal for a new stadium would be. Hand on heart here (whatever side you are on), what do you think it will be? A brand new state of the art, brilliantly designed stadium, or a cheap build, get it up quick, cheap and cheery effort?

With money very much the issue here, I can only see it being the latter.

Could well be we move from an excellent Premiership standard stadium with great facilities, to a cheap build effort with less than half the capacity and something that simply wouldn't be able to compete at the highest level.

How many clubs who are successful in the Premiership either don't own their stadium or don't have total access to matchday revenues?

Southampton would still be floundering if they'd had Coventry council to deal with.

 

[lewys33]

Not quite the same for me, Hill.

Personally I think it is incredibly short-sighted to be thinking of a 12,000-15,000 seater stadium (if that is what it is to be). The Ricoh is NOT too big for us. If we were top end of the Championship or in the Premier then we would be getting crowds in the 20,000's regularly.

Nowt wrong with the Ricoh. It's only the lack of success on the pitch that has made the place seem soulless.

Let's say for instance we did a Southampton and suddenly got 2 promotions in 2 years and made the Premiership. This expansion nonsense of a new stadium simply couldn't keep up with such progress.

We all know that if we had say a 15,000 stadium and were suddenly promoted, there is no way the stadium could be just expanded at the drop of a hat and in the close season.

For me I am totally against a new stadium because of the size of the stadium being mooted. Very narrow minded and short-sighted thinking. We need to be thinking bigger, because we all know that if we had the success on the pitch the crowds would rise significantly and would easliy be top 20,000 on a regular basis.

I think building something that is say 15,000 is defeatism and not forward thinking.

The key to everything is success on the pitch, not the stadium. If we had 25,000 at the Ricoh every week we wouldn't be in the mess we are now. How do we get 25,000 every week at the Ricoh? By having a successful CCFC team on the field of play.

The way things are being talked about is to splash out an awful lot of money for us to downsize and that for me is not the way to go, unless of course we just want to resign ourselves to being a lower league club for the foreseeable future.

Yes, the Ricoh is too big for us .... at the moment!

I am totally opposed to any new stadium because I feel this will be resigning ourselves into accepting we are just a lower league club and will remain that way.

The Ricoh is a fab stadium and is perfecty geared up for the Premiership and that surely has to be the ultimate aim for us hasn't it?

I just don't buy this expansion nonsense. The talk seems to be like we can just bolt something extra on with just a few weeks notice as soon as we have any success.

We have a perfectly decent stadium already here in Coventry and that is where we should play.

People seem to forget that the Ricoh is a high end championship/premiership quality stadium when they argue that "CCC bleeding us dry" and "the rent was too high"

 

[fernandopartridge]

People seem to forget that the Ricoh is a high end championship/premiership quality stadium when they argue that "CCC bleeding us dry" and "the rent was too high"

Was the rent not too high then?

 

[lewys33]

How many clubs who are successful in the Premiership either don't own their stadium or don't have total access to matchday revenues?

Southampton would still be floundering if they'd had Coventry council to deal with.

Its all well and good saying that, but have Coventry had a turnover which suggests that the only thing resulting in CCFC being "in the shit" is the rent and no access to F&B?

 

[italiahorse]

How many clubs who are successful in the Premiership either don't own their stadium or don't have total access to matchday revenues?

Southampton would still be floundering if they'd had Coventry council to deal with.

Yes a £1.4M per year rent runs up £60M of debt in 5 years