Voice_of_Reason
Well-Known Member
Just wondering if SISU (Otium) don't get their own way they would liquidate - resulting no more CCFC ?
Are SISU vindicitive enough to liquidate Otuim ? (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Voice_of_Reason
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bradwellskyblues
Well-Known Member
They would not think twice if it suited them
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
would it be the only way they could get rid off the associated debt? assuming it is £60M the most they are likely to get for the club will be a quid and i assume the debt will still exist. to protect her investors interest (encase anyone's forgotten she only cares about her investors outside off her family) i think she would.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
No.
The name & rights to operate CCFC is worth something.
However they might sell some assets off before they sell the club if they think that would get a higher price.
The name & rights to operate CCFC is worth something.
However they might sell some assets off before they sell the club if they think that would get a higher price.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Who would take on a club with £60m debt though? And even if it's "restructured" what's to stop us being back to square one owing another company a similar amount.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Yup, we're just an irritation in the wider scheme of things.
Future negotiations aren't going to work out so well for them if people see a high profile case of them backing down.
Plus it's not necessarily spite anyway as rationally, and if it were any business other than a football club, we'd have been gone long ago! Only reason football clubs survive is people don't like to be thought of asthe person who brought them down; the irony here is it may be to their wider advantage to have that reputation!
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
i have to agree with you. i often think what we see as negative PR for sisu as CCFC fans, she see's as free advertising for her hedge fund.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
No one, the debts would have to be written off if a buyer is to be found.
When SISU bought CCFC they paid £8M external debt (eg mainly tax) and made a commitment (now lapsed) to pay £6M to GR if promotion to the Premiership was achieved.
They kept ~£35M debt to GR on the books, but that does not have to be paid back anywhere, it is just a number on the books.
Sky Blue Spud
Member
Yes, by the end of the season in all probability. They will not keep throwing good money after bad and the threat of building a new stadium is pure bullshit.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Without hesitation.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
If we're talking being vindictive then the obviously very nasty thing to do would be to put Otium into Administration. Then as the main creditor buy the assets which would be Ryton, the players although you'd probably sell those off first before Admin and the Club intelectual property i.e. the badge crest, name etc. That way you could prevent anyone from forming a new club under the Coventry City name.
Not suggesting that this is what would happen just what could.
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
Liquidating the club prevents the original name being used
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
all the more strange that they threaten to sue anyone who says anything then
Specs WT-R75
Well-Known Member
They will not just liquidate the club, as if they did this all the players would become free agents and in theory several of them have a transfer value.
The question you would ask when considering Administration#2 vs Liquidation, is can I sell off the players and assets for more than I could sell the whole package. The reality is that the package is always going to be worth more than a fire sale... well at least for now.
Sisu are not vindictive, they are just ruthless... they, unlike ACL, will not cut off their nose to spite their face (referring to the rejection of the CVA)
The question you would ask when considering Administration#2 vs Liquidation, is can I sell off the players and assets for more than I could sell the whole package. The reality is that the package is always going to be worth more than a fire sale... well at least for now.
Sisu are not vindictive, they are just ruthless... they, unlike ACL, will not cut off their nose to spite their face (referring to the rejection of the CVA)
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italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Not sure. Rangers were liquidated and are still called the same. Also there history seems to have stayed intact.
Nick
Administrator
Who else have they threatened that has said anything?
skybluebeduff
Well-Known Member
Why would they cover losses for moving to Sixfields, just to liquidate us? It to me makes no financial sense, they would gain nothing surely and all money spent would be down the drain?
jesus-wept
New Member
Has to be a worry. If you take a step back and consider what hedge funds do. They are like hyenas they pick the bones of almost dead businesses and then discard them any way the are able and don't give a shite. Think about Joy Sepalla's recent interview with that Les Reid bloke, she admitted to knowing sweet f/a about running a football club. She also admitted she didn't even know Coventry City Football Club was part of her sisu portfolio until fairly recently and has only just personally really got involved probably as a result of the shit hitting the fan last summer. Now as a result of the administration everything football wise is now under a single umbrella called otium. Nice and neat. This Sixfields farce is costing money or accruing debt more like, I would guess about half a million a month, there's little income. Won't worry Sepalla because she will just put otium into admin and clear those debts as what was done last time, won't care about us losing more points, players or whatever. Sepalla knows she has no chance of getting her hands on the freehold, councils don't sell freeholds so forget that and if she did don't think for one minute that would reprieve the football team and it is that that worries me, the team.
In a recent newspaper article we were one of 6 football clubs deemed to be in grave danger of ceasing to exist, these names weren't just plucked out of the air, they were real issues behind that statement a lot of which perhaps cannot be made public in this era of litigation we now live in. So yes I am very concerned we are heading towards oblivion as Coventry City, would that signify a new club, maybe but in what division ?
In a recent newspaper article we were one of 6 football clubs deemed to be in grave danger of ceasing to exist, these names weren't just plucked out of the air, they were real issues behind that statement a lot of which perhaps cannot be made public in this era of litigation we now live in. So yes I am very concerned we are heading towards oblivion as Coventry City, would that signify a new club, maybe but in what division ?
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duffer
Well-Known Member
I still don't see why SISU would liquidate, gaining nothing, if there's the option to sell for something.
I don't doubt their unpleasantness to deal with, it's part of why we are were are, but I don't think they're dumb enough to turn down even a relatively small return if that's all that's on the table.
As it stands at the moment, my club's pretty much gone anyway in my eyes.
I don't doubt their unpleasantness to deal with, it's part of why we are were are, but I don't think they're dumb enough to turn down even a relatively small return if that's all that's on the table.
As it stands at the moment, my club's pretty much gone anyway in my eyes.
Old Warwickshire lad
Well-Known Member
In one word "YES"
James Smith
Well-Known Member
I wasn't sure that it did (I could see that being the case for the company name but who cares about the name Otium) and so I never mentioned liquidation, just admin.
jesus-wept
New Member
One reaon the can dump debt, another thing hedge funds do. What realistically would they get for the football club 5-10 million tops, they can dump loads more than that on OtiumI still don't see why SISU would liquidate, gaining nothing, if there's the option to sell for something.
I don't doubt their unpleasantness to deal with, it's part of why we are were are, but I don't think they're dumb enough to turn down even a relatively small return if that's all that's on the table.
As it stands at the moment, my club's pretty much gone anyway in my eyes.
duffer
Well-Known Member
There's nothing stopping them doing that, going into admin, and paying themselves (as presumably the main creditors) pennies in the pound, and still selling the remnant off. A bit like the CCFC Ltd farce.
There's no need to liquidate the club to do that.
mark_ccfc
Well-Known Member
This is according to wikipedia:-
"A failure to reach agreement with creditors on 14 June 2012 led to The Rangers Football Club Plc (since renamed RFC 2012 Plc)[SUP][85][/SUP] entering the process of liquidation.[SUP][86][/SUP] A new company, Sevco Scotland Ltd, then purchased the business, assets and history of The Rangers Football Club PLC,[SUP][87][/SUP] which then applied unsuccessfully for membership of the Scottish Premier League"
I think main problem is losing league status.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Then how are Otium using it? Or do you mean assuming no assets are sold from liquidation?
I'd expect in the event someone to buy the rights, even if it's just a fans group.
Many posts are about this evil 'hedge fund' and we all think 'Gordon Gekko'.
They are supposed to strip us of all assets and throw away the rest.
All while they make a ton of money.
But so far they have only managed to act as your common capital investment fund. Investing £30m or maybe even £35m during their reign.
And sisu seem to have recouped nothing from the initial £20m and then only get some interest on the loans from ARVO (the latest investor addition).
The often quoted management fees have never left the SBS&L group - it was an instrument to move money/debts between Holdings and Limited.
So could we stop blaming them for being a 'asset stripping hedge fund' - they don't operate like one in regards to the club.
There are plenty of other stuff we can repeatedly blame them for, just not treating us like Gordon Gekko would.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
for once i think you're 100% correct, i believe this is why VS Rugby are now Rugby Town. i think they can get the name back but the associated debt thats with it has to be dealt with at the same time. or something along those lines.
Harry Krishner
Well-Known Member
........Yes
duffer
Well-Known Member
A bit like the way they dropped 60m on CCFC Ltd.
You don't need to liquidate to dump debt, Ltd could have been sold as a going concern to someone else and still used a a debt dump, had SISU wanted to do it that way.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
tbf, it's the Private Equity part of SISU that invests in the club, isn't it?
There would of course be a fair chance ACL were in part backed by a hedge fund, too...