bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Nick? Do you know anything about it at all?
Blaze offer for City fans (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter CJ_covblaze
- Start date
Nick? Do you know anything about it at all?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
What actually happened? I remember when I was a kid there was Solihull Barons. Then when I moved back from Canada with an interest in hockey there was the Blaze and still the Barons so who did we move?
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Memory of it is a bit hazy but IIRC the Solihull Barons went bust around 1997. That club no longer existed. Somebody then (cant remember who) wanted to reform them as the Birmingham Blaze, playing at a new rink somewhere near the airport. That would clearly have been a new team being set up. The ex-Solihull staff would have just transferred over.
However the new rink didn't happen (for reasons I cant remember) so they had to set up camp in the old Solihull rink (which was very dilapidated) until something could be sorted. Few years later the Skydome was built, so the Blaze moved over here, Solihull Barons reformed.
Im sure CJ can answer it better!
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
So essentially the Blaze were a new team who happened to play in Solihull while waiting for a new rink, Coventry coming into the frame when the plans in Birmingham fell through. That doesn't really seem like franchising to me.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
That's how I understand it. I might be wrong, CJ is more the man to answer.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Well I did the Google as requested, and the reasons for the move are greater revenues on access elsewhere than Solihull.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
But when they were in Solihull was that ever a permanent thing? It sounds like the plan was to use a new rink in Birmingham but when that didn't happen they had to use Solihull as an interim venue while finding somewhere of a size in line with the rest of the league. In terms of revenue all you're really looking at is capacity aren't you? Blaze didn't own the rink in Solihull and they don't own the SkyDome do they so other revenues would most likley go to the owners.
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Can't find anything about any new rink in Birmingham, or Solihull as an interim venue.
Though they may have been having financial problems, so the owners moved to a larger area with more potential fans(rather like Wimbledon did to Milton Keynes).
Of course the Coventry Blaze a couple of years ago were in serious trouble financially and crowds were down around 25%, so lucky they didn't just up sticks to somewhere else.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
From Paul Thompsons autobiography.
Chairman Neil Ratcliffe wanted to move to Birmingham in the summer of 1996. Talks were held with the NEC but nothing came of it. However the plan to rename the team the Birmingham Blaze still, and eventually move there was still a long term aim. However it turned out that Neil Ratcliffe had no money, and the company and club was wound up in 1997.
The Solihull Blaze emerged, and made it clear that they couldn't play long term at the Solihull Ice Rink. Then in 1999 Solihull Council sold the arena to a private builder. His plan was to remove all the terracing in the arena and replace it with fast food outlets (this was to help with income from general skaters). Obviously this was unacceptable to the Hockey team, and at the same time a new rink was being built in Coventry so it seemed a natural move.
As for the financial problems, most of that was due to the collapse of a major sponsor rather than the crowds.
However due to the unique club fan relationship at the Blaze, once these financial problems were announced, the crowds flocked to games and the club got through its financial problems.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Is that still available anywhere?
I think the thing that comes through here are that Ice Hockey is more of a franchise sport with teams regularly starting up and ceasing to exist or moving. A quick google seems to indicate that the first Barons team was actually in Birmingham and then moved to Solihull and over there years there's been many different Barons teams but they are really all different clubs who happen to share the same name. Also read that Milton Keynes were moved to Solihull for a season! I guess none of the teams own their rinks and with that they are reliant on the owners to maintain a suitable rink, if they close down or make changes to the rink the teams either fold or move.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
I got it off Amazon, only goes up to 2005, but its still a really good read.
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Think you hit upon the crux of the matter there.
It is a sport that lends itself to franchising, as are many others, Rugby Union and League are quite prone to it too, and American Football obviously.
Why you could never really put your heart and soul into supporting a team like The Blaze, as they could fuck off tomorrow if get a better offer.
sky blue zam
Member
as far as im aware all food and drink revenues go to planet ice, apart from drink sales in crosbys which blaze own. all ticket and merchandising sales go to blaze aswell. i personally cannot see blaze moving anywhere again. they are very active with school visits, have fan v player nights and also have around 300 children in the blaze academy. the players mix with fans after matches are very approachable and that included matt beleskey from anaheim ducks in th nhl last season
i first started going in blazes 2nd season at the "dome" and there were only a few hundred going then. i found it strange and took a while to get into it but now ive been going for bout 11years and love it. win lose or draw you can tell he players work hard something which some city players past and present dont do every game.
as for a local rivalry, nottingham panthers matches are always feisty affairs and there is a bad blooded history with the cardiff devils (although not local).
thommos book also had me in stitches.
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D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
So they had problems with their arena's owners, and the arena's owners taking decisions not necessarily in the club's interest... so moved to another town as a way of gaining access to greater revenues for the club?
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Would never happen in football.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
They should have done it the SISU way and moved to a much smaller stadium with lower revenues
The difference would be you would expect a football club to have a long term lease. A hockey team probably runs season to season and may even rent on a game by game basis. I'm guessing you're referring to our situation but I'm sure if ACL said we're taking all the seats out and using the stands for catering facilities noone would have complained about us moving elsewhere.
oscillatewildly
Well-Known Member
Perspection a go-go! Top comment LS.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Well one thing I do have knowledge of is representation, and the entire internet is awash about how they moved for the cash!
So then fine, people want to go and see them, no problem with that... but has the trust not even considered what kind of message it sends out that on the one hand they're protesting against football clubs moving around (and as a result have never actively mailed me or made an offer encouraging me to see Coventry City in Northampton - fine, I wouldn't expect them to) but instead actively encourage me to go and see... a team who moved because of a lack of agreement on way forwards with their landlords. Why not just leave it blank in this instance, as they do with the Sixfields Northampton Coventry horror.
In a battle we're not going to win by ourselves, it's about time we did some joined up thinking and not this shambles we get instead. It smacks of an insular 'I'm alright Jack' mentality, and a determination to put one reading, and one reading only onto messages sent out... and sod the evidence plastered all over the internet, that YOU yourself told me to go and check!
How are we supposed to get support from other parties if we actively encourage attendance at a sport renowned for its teams upping sticks whenever a better financial offer comes along?!?
Fine... no problem with people going to see it, but the Trust needs to think about what messages it sends out.
As, indeed, it seems prepared to do when actively NOT endorsing the football club moving because it wants a financially better deal!
So then fine, people want to go and see them, no problem with that... but has the trust not even considered what kind of message it sends out that on the one hand they're protesting against football clubs moving around (and as a result have never actively mailed me or made an offer encouraging me to see Coventry City in Northampton - fine, I wouldn't expect them to) but instead actively encourage me to go and see... a team who moved because of a lack of agreement on way forwards with their landlords. Why not just leave it blank in this instance, as they do with the Sixfields Northampton Coventry horror.
In a battle we're not going to win by ourselves, it's about time we did some joined up thinking and not this shambles we get instead. It smacks of an insular 'I'm alright Jack' mentality, and a determination to put one reading, and one reading only onto messages sent out... and sod the evidence plastered all over the internet, that YOU yourself told me to go and check!
How are we supposed to get support from other parties if we actively encourage attendance at a sport renowned for its teams upping sticks whenever a better financial offer comes along?!?
Fine... no problem with people going to see it, but the Trust needs to think about what messages it sends out.
As, indeed, it seems prepared to do when actively NOT endorsing the football club moving because it wants a financially better deal!
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Even if what you say is accurate, how has the football club moving helped its financial situation? Less than 1k city fans tonight, worked well for them hasn't it?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
It is a move to help the financial situation. Surely we don't have to go through this AGAIN! The whole point of the club moving is so it gets a financially better deal from the stadium it occupies, so it asserts. In fact, the club asserts it wants a financially better deal in COVENTRY.
Pretty much as the Blaze wanted, and they appear to be welcomed for desiring that!
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CJ_covblaze
Well-Known Member
The club moved as the rink was unusable. There was no other option. If it had been down to pure greed of the owners wouldn't it have been more worthwhile for the club to move to Birmingham rather than here? Another point is that most of the fans (for what it's worth, myself included) supported the idea and still travel now. Hence the number of Villa, Blues, Dingles and Baggies you see around the place.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Still think your comparison is poor.
The Solihull Blaze existed for about 3 years before moving to Coventry, you cant compare that to 130 years. The Blaze simply weren't part of the community over there.
CJ_covblaze
Well-Known Member
This is kinda of correct. However essentially we are the original club.
CJ_covblaze
Well-Known Member
This was mainly due to a sponsor not paying up. CPP engineering in Coventry were owned by the same guy that owned Portsmouth. When he got found out for several misdemeanours (could be wrong but IIRC this included removing a large sum of account holders deposits from one of the banks he owned) he had his assets frozen.
Correct and Milton Keynes currently play in Coventry!
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I'm not seeing how these are remotely the same situation. For a start hockey is a sport based on a franchise model and teams moving. Look at the Elite League, it's only been going since 2003 and despite only having 10 teams only 5 of those teams have been there since the start!
From what I've seen in this thread and from looking around the net this afternoon the Blaze were formed in 1996 with the intention of playing in Birmingham however lack of a rink saw them playing in Solihull, a rink that was too small for them to be sustainable (hence previous Solihull based teams, including a team franchised in from Milton Keynes, going bust) so when the capacity of their rink was reduced further at the same time as a rink of suitable size became available they moved, this happened in 2000 after the club had only been in existence for 4 years. So they've played 4 years in Solihull and 14 in Coventry which you're comparing to us being moved after being playing in Coventry for 130 years since formation.
Are you really saying CCFC moving out of Coventry after 130 years from a 30,000 capacity Olympic Standard stadium to a planned 12,000 capacity stadium (not to mention god know how many years playing in Northampton with a sub 10,000 capacity) is the same thing as the Blaze moving from a dilapidated old rink with limited to capacity of under 1,000 to a brand new 3,000 capacity arena is the same thing?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
So at this time of all times, we want the trust to be proactively encouraging such a model for sport?
Why don't we encourage football to adopt a similar model, would do away with all the anguish when a team buggers off!
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Clearly football doesn't follow the same model due to it's history, clubs have been in the same location for generations and are not supposed to be permitted to move according to regulations. Given that pretty much everywhere has a team this makes sense as any team moving would be encroaching on someone else's territory. Now if you were setting up football leagues from scratch today it is quite likely you'd follow a different model as anyone would looks at 90 plus professional teams and tell you it wouldn't be sustainable.