A quick sum (1 Viewer)

[Maupet]

A quick sum shows that we do not need to own our own stadium. We are losing every home game at least 8000 fans at £15 a ticket. For 20 games comes to 2.4 million pounds. That is 16 years rent. So we dont need to own the stadium he they are prepared to lose that money

 

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[TheParsonsHose]

A quick sum shows that we do not need to own our own stadium. We are losing every home game at least 8000 fans at £15 a ticket. For 20 games comes to 2.4 million pounds. That is 16 years rent. So we dont need to own the stadium he they are prepared to lose that money

What about the billions of pies and pints of beer we are expected to consume?

 

[Skyblueweeman]

These quick sums have been done to death...we all know that but unfortunately, our owners need to see some return on their investment (and despite what some will say, they have invested...wages etc, bills for the large part) so they're not going to get any return on Sixfields. Ownership of the Ricoh, or another stadium they can sell on as part of a whole CCFC package, is the only way we're going to get rid of SISU.

WM

 

[The Gentleman]

These quick sums have been done to death...we all know that but unfortunately, our owners need to see some return on their investment (and despite what some will say, they have invested...wages etc, bills for the large part) so they're not going to get any return on Sixfields. Ownership of the Ricoh, or another stadium they can sell on as part of a whole CCFC package, is the only way we're going to get rid of SISU.

WM

If they don't buy the Ricoh for say £40 million, stands to reason they don't have the money for a £40 million new stadium which will be inferior to the Ricoh, what then?

 

[Skyblueweeman]

If they don't buy the Ricoh for say £40 million, stands to reason they don't have the money for a £40 million new stadium which will be inferior to the Ricoh, what then?

I get what you're saying, but there's nothing to say they don't have the money to buy the Ricoh. The current ownership of the Ricoh is the reason they don't own it. I wouldn't necessarily say they don't have money to buy either though..they just choose not to at the moment.

WM

 

[italiahorse]

We all know why they won't put a bid in yet because they believe the value without CCFC is coming down.
The JR just drags the time out more and I guess they have to balance there losses against the potential gains.

Oh yea Fcuk the fans.

 

[Noggin]

These quick sums have been done to death...we all know that but unfortunately, our owners need to see some return on their investment (and despite what some will say, they have invested...wages etc, bills for the large part) so they're not going to get any return on Sixfields. Ownership of the Ricoh, or another stadium they can sell on as part of a whole CCFC package, is the only way we're going to get rid of SISU.

WM

They aren't going to get a return on their investment by building a new stadium either, in fact all they are likely to do is lose a chunk more money. It's a ludicrous idea and I don't believe for a second they will attempt it. Sisu aren't stupid.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Skyblueweeman...I get what you're saying, but there's nothing to say they don't have the money to buy the Ricoh. The current ownership of the Ricoh is the reason they don't own it. I wouldn't necessarily say they don't have money to buy either though..they just choose not to at the moment...........................................................................................................No disrespect here SWM...All SISU have done over the last six(6) years is plead poverty.."We can't afford this"..."We can't afford that"..."We can't afford to pay the rent"...Suddenly "We are going to build a brand new Stadium"....Which one is it mate ffs???

 

[James Smith]

I get what you're saying, but there's nothing to say they don't have the money to buy the Ricoh. The current ownership of the Ricoh is the reason they don't own it. I wouldn't necessarily say they don't have money to buy either though..they just choose not to at the moment.

WM

You're right to a certain extent they managed to annoy the Ricoh & ACL owners by going on the rent boycott and legal action choosing only to negotiate once partial damage had been done. Damage (especially after last week) such that we're unlikely to be owners of ACL or the Ricoh anytime soon. Joy might have investors banging on the door wanting to invest in the mythical new stadium or the purchase of ACL, but if you've made yourself unpopular with the owners they're unlikely to sell.

 

[Astute]

I get what you're saying, but there's nothing to say they don't have the money to buy the Ricoh. The current ownership of the Ricoh is the reason they don't own it. I wouldn't necessarily say they don't have money to buy either though..they just choose not to at the moment.

WM

SISUE don't own our club. The investors do. SISUE don't have the money to build a stadium or to buy the Ricoh. The investors do.

SISUE are sharks. They are funded by other sharks. They are used to going in for the kill. They are used to having their victim being scared and letting them have what they want. But this time Higgs and CCC are not rolling over and letting them have what they want. Why should they be given the Ricoh in the hope it will make them leave?

 

[sky blue john]

We know the sums it doesn't make sense playing at sixfields.
Sisu are relying on winning the JR at which point a massive claim for damages including lost revenue because of playing games at sixfields....

 

[Snozz_is_god]

We know the sums it doesn't make sense playing at sixfields.
Sisu are relying on winning the JR at which point a massive claim for damages including lost revenue because of playing games at sixfields....

That's exactly what they are up to. All this crap about a new ground is just playing for time with the FL.

 

[Taga]

A quick sum shows that we do not need to own our own stadium. We are losing every home game at least 8000 fans at £15 a ticket. For 20 games comes to 2.4 million pounds. That is 16 years rent. So we dont need to own the stadium he they are prepared to lose that money

Hi Maupet. What you simply explain here is the operational (day to day) loss/profit from the stadium situation. What SISU are looking for is an increase in the capital value of the business, a saleable commodity that in the mid/long term will provide them with some sort of return on their investment.

Your model would work well for a debt free club with a strategy of pure re-investment in the club itself, maybe a supporters trust ownership or the old fashioned local businessman chairman. Unfortunately, SISU have a responsibility to its investors first and foremost, something we all knew from the start.

As a 3rd tier club, the main capital value will come from land, property and the occasional increase in player value. All the revenues from tickets and matchday will typically be swallowed by operating cost.....and in SISU's case, hefty management fee's.

SISU are in a hole and stand to make a major loss on our club, unless they can increase the capital value to appease its investors.....not likely in the short term.

 

[shmmeee]

But that capital value will be realised by Sisu not CCFC.

Even if we were gifted the Ricoh, te sensible thing to do from Sisu's POV would be to take a mortgage out on it for say £60m, use that cash to pay off investors then either hope for a quick sale (not likely) or liquidate the club (more likely).

The idea that once Sisu have the Ricoh/new ground they'll sell up to a nice owner is fantasy. Who would buy us after Sisu have extracted thier "investment"?

 

[jesus-wept]

Reading financial reports on another website suggests to me SISU don't have anywhere near the spondoolies they had 5/6 years ago. Not suggesting they are on skid row at least not yet but it looks like financialy the going is tough presently as it is for many in the murky world of finance. So building a new stadium although it would be with borrowed money looks a crazy decision when they could buy one. No doubt we, the football club are a millstone round the sisu neck so I worry a bit about their next moves.

 

[Taga]

But that capital value will be realised by Sisu not CCFC.

Even if we were gifted the Ricoh, te sensible thing to do from Sisu's POV would be to take a mortgage out on it for say £60m, use that cash to pay off investors then either hope for a quick sale (not likely) or liquidate the club (more likely).

The idea that once Sisu have the Ricoh/new ground they'll sell up to a nice owner is fantasy. Who would buy us after Sisu have extracted thier "investment"?

Absolutely it will be SISU that benefit from any increase in the capital value of the club. It could then become a saleable commodity, something it certainly isn't at the moment.

 

[Astute]

Absolutely it will be SISU that benefit from any increase in the capital value of the club. It could then become a saleable commodity, something it certainly isn't at the moment.

And to add to this you should also say that you don't know what they would do with the Ricoh as none of us know this. But it will not help our club whatever they do with it. They already charge our club 2.5m a year management fees and 1.2m interest fees. And this was in 2011 after it had been going up each year. So what would the interest payments be if they did manage to buy the Ricoh? Even then would it belong to our club? If it did all they would have to do is liquidate our club to take ownership of the stadium.

 

[Ashdown1]

Hi Maupet. What you simply explain here is the operational (day to day) loss/profit from the stadium situation. What SISU are looking for is an increase in the capital value of the business, a saleable commodity that in the mid/long term will provide them with some sort of return on their investment.

Your model would work well for a debt free club with a strategy of pure re-investment in the club itself, maybe a supporters trust ownership or the old fashioned local businessman chairman. Unfortunately, SISU have a responsibility to its investors first and foremost, something we all knew from the start.

As a 3rd tier club, the main capital value will come from land, property and the occasional increase in player value. All the revenues from tickets and matchday will typically be swallowed by operating cost.....and in SISU's case, hefty management fee's.

SISU are in a hole and stand to make a major loss on our club, unless they can increase the capital value to appease its investors.....not likely in the short term.

I agree with all that but at the moment 8-10000 more bums on seats will at least help with those said 'operating costs' plus renewed spend on merchandise etc. If SISU could swallow their pride and get back in the Ricoh on a low rent then at least they could negotiate their way forward from inside the door rather than the car park !

 

[RegTheDonk]

But that capital value will be realised by Sisu not CCFC.

Even if we were gifted the Ricoh, te sensible thing to do from Sisu's POV would be to take a mortgage out on it for say £60m, use that cash to pay off investors then either hope for a quick sale (not likely) or liquidate the club (more likely).

The idea that once Sisu have the Ricoh/new ground they'll sell up to a nice owner is fantasy. Who would buy us after Sisu have extracted thier "investment"?

Hi shmmeee - apologies but can you, or someone, please explain how liquidating the club is a likely scenario and how this benefits SISU? If they do have the ground with a mortgage, would it not make sense to keep CCFC going until someone eventually buys the whole package? I genuinely don't understand how this works.

 

[Noggin]

Absolutely it will be SISU that benefit from any increase in the capital value of the club. It could then become a saleable commodity, something it certainly isn't at the moment.

The club will not increase in value by the cost of the new stadium so it makes no sense. When was the last time a league 1 club (being exceptionally generous by assuming we'd still be league 1 after 5 years away from Cov) sold for 50+mill which is what they need for building the new stadium to be a good idea and for them to get a reasonable amount of their investment back?

There is absolutely no market for league 1 clubs for sale at tens of millions and certainly not for league 2/conference teams which is where we will be.

 

[Captain Dart]

Hi Maupet. What you simply explain here is the operational (day to day) loss/profit from the stadium situation. What SISU are looking for is an increase in the capital value of the business, a saleable commodity that in the mid/long term will provide them with some sort of return on their investment.

Your model would work well for a debt free club with a strategy of pure re-investment in the club itself, maybe a supporters trust ownership or the old fashioned local businessman chairman. Unfortunately, SISU have a responsibility to its investors first and foremost, something we all knew from the start.

As a 3rd tier club, the main capital value will come from land, property and the occasional increase in player value. All the revenues from tickets and matchday will typically be swallowed by operating cost.....and in SISU's case, hefty management fee's.

SISU are in a hole and stand to make a major loss on our club, unless they can increase the capital value to appease its investors.....not likely in the short term.

I think it would be wonderful if SISU are forced out and we end up in that situation.

 

[sky blue john]

Hi
shmmeee - apologies but can you, or someone, please explain how liquidating the club is a likely scenario and how this benefits SISU? If they do have the ground with a mortgage, would it not make sense to keep CCFC going until someone eventually buys the whole package? I genuinely don't understand how this works.

You tend to find its staunch Sisu supporters that use the term and like to threaten with the word liquidation.
The most valuable asset the club has is the golden share which would be rendered worthless going down the liquidation route.

 

[Astute]

Hi shmmeee - apologies but can you, or someone, please explain how liquidating the club is a likely scenario and how this benefits SISU? If they do have the ground with a mortgage, would it not make sense to keep CCFC going until someone eventually buys the whole package? I genuinely don't understand how this works.

They have put about 30m into our club. If they mortgage the ground for 40m they have made 10m profit. Then they liquidate. Or they could liquidate our club and as the debt is owed to SISUE/Otium/ARVO or whatever they call themselves this week they would get the freehold and we are left without a football club and they keep the arena. Any new club started would need a stadium so then.........

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Skyblueweeman...I get what you're saying, but there's nothing to say they don't have the money to buy the Ricoh. The current ownership of the Ricoh is the reason they don't own it. I wouldn't necessarily say they don't have money to buy either though..they just choose not to at the moment...........................................................................................................No disrespect here SWM...All SISU have done over the last six(6) years is plead poverty.."We can't afford this"..."We can't afford that"..."We can't afford to pay the rent"...Suddenly "We are going to build a brand new Stadium"....Which one is it mate ffs???

No disrespect taken. To be fair though, they've only not paid bills for two of six years. They've not pleaded poverty for that long. The one major crime that can be levelled at them over the past 6 years is awful due dilligence over the Ricoh when they took over.

WM

 

[chiefdave]

They have put about 30m into our club. If they mortgage the ground for 40m they have made 10m profit. Then they liquidate. Or they could liquidate our club and as the debt is owed to SISUE/Otium/ARVO or whatever they call themselves this week they would get the freehold and we are left without a football club and they keep the arena. Any new club started would need a stadium so then.........

They wouldn't even need to liquidate, just stop paying the bills and wait for someone to put them into admin then don't submit a bid to buy the club back out of admin. If someone else comes in the have to make a pence in the pound offer to repay SISU, if noone comes in club ceases to exist.

 

[Astute]

No disrespect taken. To be fair though, they've only not paid bills for two of six years. They've not pleaded poverty for that long. The one major crime that can be levelled at them over the past 6 years is awful due dilligence over the Ricoh when they took over.

WM

Taking us to Northampton was a much bigger crime.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

SISUE don't own our club. The investors do. SISUE don't have the money to build a stadium or to buy the Ricoh. The investors do.

SISUE are sharks. They are funded by other sharks. They are used to going in for the kill. They are used to having their victim being scared and letting them have what they want. But this time Higgs and CCC are not rolling over and letting them have what they want. Why should they be given the Ricoh in the hope it will make them leave?

First of all, the adult, grown up name for them is SISU.
Secondly, I've not said they should be given the Ricoh. My point is that a football club with a stadium, is an easier package to sell and a better proposition to buy, than a football club with no stadium.

WM

 

[Astute]

They wouldn't even need to liquidate, just stop paying the bills and wait for someone to put them into admin then don't submit a bid to buy the club back out of admin. If someone else comes in the have to make a pence in the pound offer to repay SISU, if noone comes in club ceases to exist.

Not if the plan is to keep a hold on the arena.

 

[Astute]

First of all, the adult, grown up name for them is SISU.
Secondly, I've not said they should be given the Ricoh. My point is that a football club with a stadium, is an easier package to sell and a better proposition to buy, than a football club with no stadium.

WM

So they say that CCFC owe them 70m. You don't want the Ricoh given to them. 20m would be cheap. So there is 90m. Are you saying that with the stadium someone would give SISUE 90m for our club?

And yes whilst they are suing everyone including a local charity I will call them SISUE.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Taking us to Northampton was a much bigger crime.

If they hadn't of committed crime one, crime two wouldn't have happened....

WM

 

[Skyblueweeman]

So they say that CCFC owe them 70m. You don't want the Ricoh given to them. 20m would be cheap. So there is 90m. Are you saying that with the stadium someone would give SISUE 90m for our club?

And yes whilst they are suing everyone including a local charity I will call them SISUE.

I'm not sure where this £70m figure has come from? Have I missed something or is this something that the doom and gloom merchants have plucked from thin air?

£20m would be cheap? Didn't the Higgs offer to sell their half for something like £4.6m? If that's the case, the £20m is very expensive.

And in anycase, it doesn't matter what figures we're talking about, a club with a stadium is more attractive that a club without a ground. Surely you can see that?!

WM

 

[shmmeee]

Hi shmmeee - apologies but can you, or someone, please explain how liquidating the club is a likely scenario and how this benefits SISU? If they do have the ground with a mortgage, would it not make sense to keep CCFC going until someone eventually buys the whole package? I genuinely don't understand how this works.

My point was who would buy the package?

At that point we would have massive mortgage payments to make. Even if someone bought us it'd be another Sisu situation where we're just waiting for the life support to be turned off.

It'd be better to let us go into admin first. At which pint whether we survive or not is down to our creditors, the biggest of which is Sisu. Putting Sisu in the position of ACL last summer.

Do you think they'd play fair? Or do you think there's a bit of spite? We'd be reliant on someone offering to clear the mortgage debt and offer more to Sisu than they would get through liquidation. More debt to be paid.

My point is, if the club is loaded with debt it may not go bust tomorrow, but it'll certainly happen at some point. The club itself is no better off long term, and in many ways worse than when they arrived.

 

[James Smith]

If they hadn't of committed crime one, crime two wouldn't have happened....

WM

Yep if Sisu hadn't put us into Administration there wouldn't have been a CVA to reject.

 

[sky blue john]

I'm not sure where this £70m figure has
come from? Have I missed something or is this something that the doom and gloom merchants have plucked from thin air?

£20m would be cheap? Didn't the Higgs offer to sell their half for something like £4.6m? If that's the case, the £20m is very expensive.

And in anycase, it doesn't matter what figures we're talking about, a club with a stadium is more attractive that a club without a ground. Surely you can see that?!

WM

The figure of 70million comes from fisher and appleton at around the time of admin.

 

[Grendel]

I'm not sure where this £70m figure has come from? Have I missed something or is this something that the doom and gloom merchants have plucked from thin air?

£20m would be cheap? Didn't the Higgs offer to sell their half for something like £4.6m? If that's the case, the £20m is very expensive.

And in anycase, it doesn't matter what figures we're talking about, a club with a stadium is more attractive that a club without a ground. Surely you can see that?!

WM

£70 million is the official debt in appletons report. Astute along with everyone else knows the true debt to ARVRO is substantially less but he likes to use it when it fits his argument.