Freehold of The Arena AND all its surrounds?!? (9 Viewers)

[Gint11]

"Ooh, but my android phone is SO customisable"

"Yeah but does it work all of the time?"

"No"

"Shut up then"


But yeah, ipads are a waste of time though.

Completely disagree about Ipads. I use mine every day. They are class.

 

---

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

If they want the freehold at all they have to pay market price, if they want the unfettered freehold well they simply aren't going to get it, while it might technically be possible it would cost a massive ammount more than it's worth and be incredibly complex, they could however buy the freehold and acl which is nearly the same as having the unfettered freehold and a million times more reasonable.

Much though many will try and steer the debate away from this central position; this is where we are at. The question remains, is this a fair demand from SISU to bring our football club back to the Ricoh? For me, it's asking the impossible. A more reasoned stance should be access to the leasehold and/or revenues; this coming after they show that they are able to evidence the sort of cost control that was sadly missing in their early days with he club and/or reduced 'management costs' or interest charges

 

[Noggin]

I have slightly confused things there and my apologies, but if Sisu could purchase the freehold and managed to dispose of the current lease (whether this be by purchasing ACL or a another) they could then simply set up a new lease to replace the existing one.

No Worries

Yes but buying acl seems to be the only reasonable way to do this and thats not what they are saying they want.

They want the council to dispose of the lease and then sell them the freehold which is impossible.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

No Worries

Yes but buying acl seems to be the only reasonable way to do this and thats not what they are saying they want.

They want the council to dispose of the lease and then sell them the freehold which is impossible.

I agree this seems the simpler way, but when has Sisu done simple?

If I was Sisu I would start but dragging Fisher abnormaly large back to the negotiating table with Higgs for their share and not PWKH, I would speak to Son Higgs (I forget the lads name) he is Sky Blue and would be responsible enough to negotiate.

 

[smouch1975]

though many will try and steer the debate away from this central position;

I hold your postulations in the highest contempt!!!

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I hold your postulations in the highest contempt!!! 

Join the club!

 

[No future with SISU]

I assume acl own the contracts? What would happen if prior to sake the loan was demanded back and they were liquidated? What happens to the contracts?

Their contracts would transfer over to the company who was owed the morgage debt, as that is the council they would still have to buy out the contracts to get total controll of the ricoh.

 

[hill83]

Completely disagree about Ipads. I use mine every day. They are class.

Point proven.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Their contracts would transfer over to the company who was owed the morgage debt, as that is the council they would still have to buy out the contracts to get total controll of the ricoh.

Are you sure?

 

[Grendel]

Their contracts would transfer over to the company who was owed the morgage debt, as that is the council they would still have to buy out the contracts to get total controll of the ricoh.

I don't see how that would happen. Why?

 

[Noggin]

I don't see how that would happen. Why?

It's irrelevent anyway.

If the council call back the loan which they almost certainly can't do and wouldn't do if they could, then acl would try to refinance, if they were unable to do this the council would have to take them to court for the money, it would likely end up with acl going into administration, at this point the administrator would either attempt to sell acl or they would sell off acls assets ie the lease.

In none of these circumstances does the lease get broken allowing the council to sell the unfettered freehold and it likely hurts the council as a acl is half theirs and b it would probably prevent them getting back what is owed.

It's a silly suggestion in order to try and defend the indefensible of the club expecting the council to sell what they are completely unable to do.

 

[duffer]

Ah, with regard to SISU, ACL the council and the freehold, I have just come across an inspiring quote.

"For every complex problem there is an answer which is clear, simple and wrong." (H.L.Mencken).

This one I think relates especially to Timmy, and the odd person here perhaps, who seem to think that the council can simply liquidate ACL, unpack all of the other contracts and liabilities, and flog off the arena in it's entirety to SISU. (And uphold their statutory duty to maximise returns on public assets).

The quickest and sanest way back has to be under a rental deal, allowing further negotiations for the stuff above, and if they fail for the club to genuinely move on and build elsewhere (should they have the wherewithal). Of course, that's not going to happen until SISU are forced to that point by either the FL or financial reality finally taking hold.

To go back to the OP, I sense from Lucas's tone that the freehold sale is a dead duck now.

Either things will move quickly after the JR, and subsequent appeal, or it's going to take years to sort out.

And I think I'm repeating myself, so I guess I better just go away!

 

[will am i]

I'm sorry MMM, I'm with grenduffy on this. The whole package. A night in a hotel, 3 meals. Booze and games in a casino. Valet parking. Other outlets benefiting from sales. That's the key

90 mins and a balti pie. Forget it

So is this the model for the new stadium they are building, or is it just a stadium they are building. I genuinely don t know, so could someone enlighten me

 

[Gint11]

Point proven.

My review is good enough!

 

[The Gentleman]

Two points. Firstly, do you have any evidence that PH4 wanted this? I have it on record he wanted to buy the council's share of ACL, and there are reports that he wanted to buy the Higgs share too. He expressed an interest in the football club in administration too. But I can't see anywhere where it's reported be looked at the freehold of the Arena, or it's surrounding land. Without this, all we're left with is 'I bet he wanted', or 'I think his ambition was'.....

Whereas, and the reason I wanted to separate the debates, is that this is a statement, made by the leader of the council, coming from her own lips. Therefore we, can debate as to how 'reasonable' it is. That's the difference

Exactly, but some people on this forum like to look for things that aren't actually there as fact or like to assume that PH4 is just as bad as Sisu. I just have one question to all those that keep bringing up the point about PH4 is a developer and he would do bad things too, if PH4 managed to get control of CCFC and either partial or full ownership of the arena, would CCFC be playing home games 35 miles away?

 

[Grendel]

Exactly, but some people on this forum like to look for things that aren't actually there as fact or like to assume that PH4 is just as bad as Sisu. I just have one question to all those that keep bringing up the point about PH4 is a developer and he would do bad things too, if PH4 managed to get control of CCFC and either partial or full ownership of the arena, would CCFC be playing home games 35 miles away?

No and if the council ACL with the support of the trust had not forced the administration through we probably wouldn't be now either.

 

[covcity4life]

No and if the council ACL with the support of the trust had not forced the administration through we probably wouldn't be now either.

we have to get over that remember.

only anti sisu points can be debated

 

[Hobo]

Exactly, but some people on this forum like to look for things that aren't actually there as fact or like to assume that PH4 is just as bad as Sisu. I just have one question to all those that keep bringing up the point about PH4 is a developer and he would do bad things too, if PH4 managed to get control of CCFC and either partial or full ownership of the arena, would CCFC be playing home games 35 miles away?

Also would he be demanding freehold everything? Or work and develop alongside the council?

A comment was made by the council that SISU have never outlined a viable plan of their intentions....that is where the mistrust has come from along with SISUs forwards backwards, pretend it we never said it approach to negotiations.

 

[Astute]

No and if the council ACL with the support of the trust had not forced the administration through we probably wouldn't be now either.

How did you work that one out?

Try and keep your reply sensible

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Exactly, but some people on this forum like to look for things that aren't actually there as fact or like to assume that PH4 is just as bad as Sisu. I just have one question to all those that keep bringing up the point about PH4 is a developer and he would do bad things too, if PH4 managed to get control of CCFC and either partial or full ownership of the arena, would CCFC be playing home games 35 miles away?

Oh dear lord.

No one has ever said PH4 would do bad things, but if you want to discuss facts its relevant to state then that PH4 is a Property Developer, why in Merlins beard would he invest into a facility like the Ricoh and not look to expand or develop it? It makes no sense, as it made no sense for Byng to not want the Freehold, now MMM was nice to say he disagrees and is aware of information that states PH4 wanted otherwise unbeknown to everyone else..

You talk about reading things that aren't actually there but from the looks of your post its pot calls the kettle black.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Also would he be demanding freehold everything? Or work and develop alongside the council?

A comment was made by the council that SISU have never outlined a viable plan of their intentions....that is where the mistrust has come from along with SISUs forwards backwards, pretend it we never said it approach to negotiations.

That I could agree with Hobo, Sisu can't even outline their own plans for a new stadium properly.

PH4 wouldn't demand anything, but like Sisu or anyone else that comes along PH4 would have to pay Market Value for the Arena, I don't see personally the interest of a 50% stake in the Arena for PH4 it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

[Hobo]

That I could agree with Hobo, Sisu can't even outline their own plans for a new stadium properly.

PH4 wouldn't demand anything, but like Sisu or anyone else that comes along PH4 would have to pay Market Value for the Arena, I don't see personally the interest of a 50% stake in the Arena for PH4 it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

40 million a year sponsorship of the Premier League doesn't make sense, but Barclays have done it for 13 years.

Lots of things in Business don't seem to make sense. Even more so in football business. But I can't see PH4 coming now unless SISU go back into Admin.

 

[Noggin]

Oh dear lord.

No one has ever said PH4 would do bad things, but if you want to discuss facts its relevant to state then that PH4 is a Property Developer, why in Merlins beard would he invest into a facility like the Ricoh and not look to expand or develop it? It makes no sense, as it made no sense for Byng to not want the Freehold, now MMM was nice to say he disagrees and is aware of information that states PH4 wanted otherwise unbeknown to everyone else..

You talk about reading things that aren't actually there but from the looks of your post its pot calls the kettle black.

Everyone wants ccfc to own the arena, to get all the match day revenue, to get revenue from pubs and hotels, everyone wants the arena expanded and developed, to get a train station etc etc. No one thinks this is a bad thing, PH4 was alledgedly in discussions to buy acl which is exactly what needs to happen in order to start this process.

The problems are sisu want something that is unreasonable and for all intents and purposes impossible and they have demonstrated they are willing to massively hurt the club in order to get what they want, so it follows that them getting the arena, is not going to lead to some rosy situation of ccfc happy at the ricoh with all the revenues unless its the best thing for them and it probably isn't.

Ph4 was brought into this discussion as a deflection, unable to actually justify what sisu are wanting grendel attempted to deflect the issue by inferring that ph4 wanted the same thing, when 1) thats irrelevant to defending sisus demands and 2) is probably not true anyway since it seemed he was going to go the correct route of buying acl.

 

[John_Silletts_Nose]

The SISU demands appear to have evolved from Food and Beverages money to freehold/leasehold of the Arena and surrounding area.

The demands are so high and undeliverable that it appears they do not want to really want this but are using it as a leverage to gain something else. By using the "council won't deal" as an argument I suspect they will use this to buy 60-70 acres of green belt land (close to HS2/NEC?) and gain planning permission.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

40 million a year sponsorship of the Premier League doesn't make sense, but Barclays have done it for 13 years.

Lots of things in Business don't seem to make sense. Even more so in football business. But I can't see PH4 coming now unless SISU go back into Admin.

Unfortunately that's the only way I could see PH4 being interested in a 50% stake of the Arena, if he owned the Club, but he never has done so nor is he likely to so it's an irrelevant argument.

 

[shmmeee]

I am of the belief that this is the issue though. Your comment implies its unreasonable, my response suggests its the only arrangement any sane buyer would countenance.

To be a "buyer" wouldn't you need to exchange cash? Otherwise you're just a "recipient".

So now, on top of tens of millions of pounds of arena you want given to our owners (not CCFC) you also want tenz of millions of pounds of development land too.

Should we throw in a building crew and architect too?

Yes, they want the whole arena complex. That's why they should get back to the original deal, or cough up what these things cost.

I want a Ferrari, but until a teacher's salary allows it I'll have to stick with the Megane.

Let's not pretend the club isn't viable unless it's given large amounts of development land. 100% of football income and 50% of the rest is more than fair and more than enough to flourish on.

 

[shmmeee]

No and if the council ACL with the support of the trust had not forced the administration through we probably wouldn't be now either.

What?

Do you actually believe the shit you type?

How on earth can ANYONE force administration on another company? Unless you'd say that jail time is "forced" onto a criminal as opposed to just being the well stated consequences of their actions.

It's comments like this that make me think you don't give two shits about the club, you just want to see an argument.

 

[fernandopartridge]

What?

Do you actually believe the shit you type?

How on earth can ANYONE force administration on another company? Unless you'd say that jail time is "forced" onto a criminal as opposed to just being the well stated consequences of their actions.

It's comments like this that make me think you don't give two shits about the club, you just want to see an argument.

You force the process of administration by applying to the court.

 

[Hobo]

Grendel doesn't mind giving everything away he doesn't live in Coventry. Too working class. Shudder the thought, Grendel living here I mean!

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Everyone wants ccfc to own the arena, to get all the match day revenue, to get revenue from pubs and hotels, everyone wants the arena expanded and developed, to get a train station etc etc. No one thinks this is a bad thing, PH4 was alledgedly in discussions to buy acl which is exactly what needs to happen in order to start this process.

The problems are sisu want something that is unreasonable and for all intents and purposes impossible and they have demonstrated they are willing to massively hurt the club in order to get what they want, so it follows that them getting the arena, is not going to lead to some rosy situation of ccfc happy at the ricoh with all the revenues unless its the best thing for them and it probably isn't.

Ph4 was brought into this discussion as a deflection, unable to actually justify what sisu are wanting grendel attempted to deflect the issue by inferring that ph4 wanted the same thing, when 1) thats irrelevant to defending sisus demands and 2) is probably not true anyway since it seemed he was going to go the correct route of buying acl.

Noggin can you point me to the statement in bold, I did ask MMM but have had no response.

I do not have an issue with what you are saying Noggin as it does seem to make most sense, as we have both said there is a certain way Sisu should go about this and it's not the way they're currently going about it, IMO they need to purchase the Higgs' 50% share in the first instance.

 

[torchomatic]

I was replying to Astute - who laughably "likes" your post - who said that Joy knows nothing about football. I was saying a lot of owners don't.

WTF has this got to do with anything?

You come out with some obscure irrelevant comparisons sometimes Torch. Is it not acceptable to you for the poster to say "Joy has admitted she knows nothing about football" and leave it there? Its a factually correct statement isn't it?

 

[Grendel]

What?

Do you actually believe the shit you type?

How on earth can ANYONE force administration on another company? Unless you'd say that jail time is "forced" onto a criminal as opposed to just being the well stated consequences of their actions.

It's comments like this that make me think you don't give two shits about the club, you just want to see an argument.

Administration is began by a process - it doesn't just happen one day. You don't just wake up and administration pops up out of milk wood.

The only reason it was started was because ACL and the council thought they could boot sisu out and bring Haskell in. They had their administrator ready and waiting. They failed.

 

[covcity4life]

Administration is began by a process - it doesn't just happen one day. You don't just wake up and administration pops up out of milk wood.

The only reason it was started was because ACL and the council thought they could boot sisu out and bring Haskell in. They had their administrator ready and waiting. They failed.

epic fail that only their fans can defend.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Noggin can you point me to the statement in bold, I did ask MMM but have had no response.

I do not have an issue with what you are saying Noggin as it does seem to make most sense, as we have both said there is a certain way Sisu should go about this and it's not the way they're currently going about it, IMO they need to purchase the Higgs' 50% share in the first instance.

Sorry - I missed the question. What was it. About PH4 buying ACL?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

epic fail that only their fans can defend.

Or it could be those who don't understand a director's fiduciary duties to their own limited business; yet keep banging on about. It's akin to throwing stones at the moon