Drink + Independent Inquiry petition + £1million questions (16 Viewers)

[Nick]

Not quoted from me though is it? Could you please edit that post so that it doesn't look like my quote?

Who is asking for a back pat? What we HAVE asked is to spread the word, and get more signatures!

When did I say you said it? I haven't.

If you don't want feedback / comments then don't post it and then moan when people don't fully agree / put forward ideas, that is the whole idea of a forum.

 

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[lewys33]

When did I say you said it? I haven't.

If you don't want feedback / comments then don't post it and then moan when people don't fully agree / put forward ideas, that is the whole idea of a forum.

You really are a moron.

 

[Houdi]

Wrong.

GMK really isn't pro-sisu. It's pro-CCFC. I'd say 90% of GMK have signed that petition. We want what best for the club but we are realistic about it. Spouting SISU Out, sisu this, sisu bastards, SISU, sisue, kick them out, leave our club etc etc will not move them on. Letting them marry the club with it's stadium might.

You mean like ,'SISU WILL WIN-FACT'. Say it, repeat it ad infinitum, even put it in capitals for extra effect and suddenly an opinion, which is just an opinion suddenly becomes an established fact. I would imagine every fans wants what's best for the club, that is surely a given. However most fans don't want to surrender to organisation that has seen fit to taking the club hostage, don't assume SISU will win, and don't even believe that SISU 'winning' is in the club's best long term interest.
No one knows how this will finally play out, but one thing is certain is that ACL/Council are certainly not stopping SISU from building their 'supposed' new ground.

 

[Nick]

You really are a moron.

What's with the personal insults? I haven't said anything negative about it and want it to succeed.

 

[lewys33]

The only thing you suggested was a change of wording to satisfy a small percentage.

This petition is aimed at ALL football fans, and is aimed at the governance of football. The wording was chosen to reflect that.

What do you struggle to understand?!?!

 

[Ashdown1]

Edgy didn't say anyone should roll over to suggest that should be the case wouldn't be fair. However that said CCFC should be combined for the Stadium that was purpose built for it and that we sacrificed our previous home for, the Ricoh Arena, how this is achieved at this particular moment I couldn't give two hoots about, but it needs to be fair for CCFC which previously it wasn't.

CCFC should be reunited with the Ricoh, I totally agree !

 

[Nick]

The only thing you suggested was a change of wording to satisfy a small percentage.

This petition is aimed at ALL football fans, and is aimed at the governance of football. The wording was chosen to reflect that.

What do you struggle to understand?!?!

No, I have suggested speaking to ALL people who haven't signed or won't sign and ask them why and see if it can adapt. It isn't just about the fucking wording. It is about finding WHY whatever the reason whether it is:

• They dont have a computer
• they dont have email
• they dont think it will achieve anything
• they think it is too anti sisu
• they dont know what it means
• they think it is pointless
• they cant be bothered
• they dont know about it
• they think it takes too long
• they dont know how to do it
• they dont agree with it
• etc etc

You clearly struggle to understand, it is like talking to a toddler.

 

[lewys33]

No, I have suggested speaking to ALL people who haven't signed or won't sign and ask them why and see if it can adapt. It isn't just about the fucking wording.

You clearly struggle to understand, it is like talking to a toddler.

People who have said they wont sign it:

1. Sunderland fans - please feel free to talk them around
2. A handful on GMK - I will ask when I can log on - which I had already said
3. 1 Bristol City fan tweeted me quite angry saying he wont sign it because of "the way your players acted on Tuesday night"

Please continue talking to this "toddler" and asking me why I am getting personal.

 

[Nick]

People who have said they wont sign it:

1. Sunderland fans - please feel free to talk them around
2. A handful on GMK - I will ask when I can log on - which I had already said
3. 1 Bristol City fan tweeted me quite angry saying he wont sign it because of "the way your players acted on Tuesday night"

Please continue talking to this "toddler" and asking me why I am getting personal.

They are only people online, that counts for a %. It isn't all about the people who straight out refuse it is about the ones who don't even know what it is. If people don't come on forums they probably don't have a clue it even exists.

So why do you feel the need to get personal? It isnt just about the wording, that was one of the few examples in this thread but you probably misread it like everything else.

You clearly know best though.

I can't see anybody who has actively WUMMED or slated the petition that hasn't been constructive and if they do then it gets removed.

 

[Ashdown1]

Ashdown - Equally, no amount of shouting SISUE OUT or Joyless Septic has convinced me either.

It is likely they want their money back. What's the most likely situation for that to occur?

More shouting at them or giving them something to sell?


Also, i'd like to add here, that no-one thought they'd be mad enough to take us from Coventry to another town. I suppose in that vein, no-one thinks they'd be mad enough to build a new stadium?

'Giving them something to sell'..................I just can't see any justification to giving them something to sell and why should they make a return on their investment. Their incompetency is only deserving of having to accept that they made a serious mistake in going into a business that they knew nothing about and taking a hit on this occasion. They have been as reckless with the clubs fortunes as their predecessors and made the situation even worse when they had a chance to turn the club around.
As City fans we both want the same conclusion I know, but my problem is caving in to hedge fund bullies to achieve that conclusion, I can't help but compare it with so many other incidences of corporate skulduggery, you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere.

 

[lewys33]

They are only people online, that counts for a %. It isn't all about the people who straight out refuse it is about the ones who don't even know what it is. If people don't come on forums they probably don't have a clue it even exists.

So why do you feel the need to get personal? It isnt just about the wording, that was one of the few examples in this thread but you probably misread it like everything else.

I can't see anybody who has actively WUMMED or slated the petition that hasn't been constructive and if they do then it gets removed.

Fuck me maybe if you stopped editing your posts it might be easier to follow!

Other ways of getting the protest out there have been/are being explored. That is not what we have been arguing about though is it? It was read, its just it has already been thought about and discussed. All I did was said why the wording was selected the way it was.

I feel the need to get personal because I genuinely feel like you are a bell end.

 

[Nick]

Fuck me maybe if you stopped editing your posts it might be easier to follow!

Other ways of getting the protest out there have been/are being explored. That is not what we have been arguing about though is it? It was read, its just it has already been thought about and discussed. All I did was said why the wording was selected the way it was.

I feel the need to get personal because I genuinely feel like you are a bell end.

Ahh keyboard warrior. Got to love them

Sorry, I added more and thought I would be quick enough.

I don't know what the fuck you are arguing about, probably something that somebody else said or hasn't been said at all knowing you.

 

[lewys33]

Ahh keyboard warrior. Got to love them

Sorry, I added more and thought I would be quick enough.

I don't know what the fuck you are arguing about, probably something that somebody else said or hasn't been said at all knowing you.

Have a splendid rest of the day! Please feel free to come along for the drink on the 26th and offer your ideas.

 

[Nick]

Have a splendid rest of the day! Please feel free to come along for the drink on the 26th and offer your ideas.

Happy Easter!

Don't think I can make it as I have some paint I want to watch dry but thanks for the invite.

 

[edgy]

'Giving them something to sell'..................I just can't see any justification to giving them something to sell and why should they make a return on their investment. Their incompetency is only deserving of having to accept that they made a serious mistake in going into a business that they knew nothing about and taking a hit on this occasion. They have been as reckless with the clubs fortunes as their predecessors and made the situation even worse when they had a chance to turn the club around.
As City fans we both want the same conclusion I know, but my problem is caving in to hedge fund bullies to achieve that conclusion, I can't help but compare it with so many other incidences of corporate skulduggery, you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere.

The justification, and you won't like it, is because that is the only realistic way of seeing the back of them AND leaving us with the club we love. I don't want to start again with a new club. Fuck that.

I'm not bother whether CCC get fooked over, I couldn't give a shit. I want the club back asap, the only way forward as I can foresee is them acquiring what they want and then doing one.

 

[Ashdown1]

If it was that simple I might abandon my stance but for them to sell, you have to have a buyer. They haven't been falling over themselves of late to get their hands on the club and it doesn't bare thinking about if smug Fisher and his devious employers got the Arena, developed the land around it, loaded even more debt onto the club and still wouldn't fuck off !
While hostage takers still hold the hostage they will always have the upper hand !

 

[Astute]

The justification, and you won't like it, is because that is the only realistic way of seeing the back of them AND leaving us with the club we love. I don't want to start again with a new club. Fuck that.

I'm not bother whether CCC get fooked over, I couldn't give a shit. I want the club back asap, the only way forward as I can foresee is them acquiring what they want and then doing one.

To me it isn't about CCC getting fucked over. It is about our club and us fans getting fucked over. SISU don't give a shit about our club or us fans. And they will continue to fuck us over as long as it is best for them.

The value to our club of a long term lease on peppercorn rent and having the freehold are very small. Yet only the freehold will do. Timothy has said that our club WILL NOT own the ground. So SISU will. So this means we will be renting the ground off SISU. Are you going to attempt to tell us that they will offer our club a fair rent? So yes they could let our club go cheap and keep the Ricoh. We have found out lately that there is a lack of places anywhere near Coventry that a ground could be built. So even if some rich arab took us over we could never have our own ground. I am not willing to let SISU get the Ricoh on the cheap just to have a very small chance of them selling our club and ground together. After this debacle CCC will never help our club again when it is in the shit. And who could blame them.

Whilst CCC has the freehold of the arena our club will always have somewhere to play.....even if we have to start again because of what our fabulous owners could do next. If SISU got it our future would certainly be in doubt. Just like it is right now with them taking us to Northampton and holding our club and us fans to hostage.

Does anyone actually trust SISU?

 

[edgy]

SISU will sell the club and the stadium together. IMO.

They won't want their fingers in this pie for longer than is needed. Your opinion is different but it doesn't stack up with the very nature of a hedge funds activities. They are going for the big return, the sale of the complete football club, not to be drip fed rent from a failing football club.

 

[torchomatic]

It seems - if you read the Bob Ainsworth piece I posted earlier that it was Richardson and the custodians of the club at that time that let the stadium site we owned slip through our fingers for whatever reason. How or why we will probably never know. I do agree with Rob 100% though that the Council did take advantage of us and milked the club for as much as they could get.

Agree you didn't mention SISU, but you did say that the council have sponged off the club, and after a bit of consideration you seemed to think it was with regard to the land deal.

I wondered if you could point out where?

 

[Astute]

SISU will sell the club and the stadium together. IMO.

They won't want their fingers in this pie for longer than is needed. Your opinion is different but it doesn't stack up with the very nature of a hedge funds activities. They are going for the big return, the sale of the complete football club, not to be drip fed rent from a failing football club.

Yes in your opinion.

So they want the arena with everything that comes from it and all the surrounding land. I would guess that they have put in between 25m and 30m. Add another 5m for further development. Get the income up to 5m a year. Massive return. Why sell?

If anything I could see them letting our club go on the cheap and selling the arena plus everything else for a big profit. Our club still wouldn't own it's own ground. The arena, complex and land would be more sellable and so worth more if sold without our club. Not many people want to run a football club......especially a division 3 club. They could even sell everything and then liquidate our club to maximise their profits. They don't give a shit about our club or us fans. They have proved this. Their god is money.

 

[torchomatic]

Don't forget though that it's the council who want the club to redevelop the area around the Ricoh because they don't have the time or inclination to do it themselves.

Yes in your opinion.

So they want the arena with everything that comes from it and all the surrounding land. I would guess that they have put in between 25m and 30m. Add another 5m for further development. Get the income up to 5m a year. Massive return. Why sell?

If anything I could see them letting our club go on the cheap and selling the arena plus everything else for a big profit. Our club still wouldn't own it's own ground. The arena, complex and land would be more sellable and so worth more if sold without our club. Not many people want to run a football club......especially a division 3 club. They could even sell everything and then liquidate our club to maximise their profits. They don't give a shit about our club or us fans. They have proved this. Their god is money.

 

[Ashdown1]

It seems - if you read the Bob Ainsworth piece I posted earlier that it was Richardson and the custodians of the club at that time that let the stadium site we owned slip through our fingers for whatever reason. How or why we will probably never know. I do agree with Rob 100% though that the Council did take advantage of us and milked the club for as much as they could get.

But what did they really get? Can you quantify that? It seems profits from the Tesco deal were used to finance the building of the Ricoh and other revenues that ACL have got from pie sales, sponsorship etc do not amount to that much either? The contracts gained from the likes of Compass would no doubt have helped with their own debt repayments too for construction. With a fairer rent deal and a larger contribution from F & B the Ricoh is a fantastic locally owned asset to the whole community, it is a well appointed crib awaiting the infant but some out of town bandits have snatched the baby and ran off to Northampton with it !

 

[Astute]

Don't forget though that it's the council who want the club to redevelop the area around the Ricoh because they don't have the time or inclination to do it themselves.

Club yes. Hedge fund that takes the piss out of everyone and everything maybe not. And I suppose you will accuse CCC of milking everything if they end up having to do it all themselves again.

 

[torchomatic]

Well, imagine if we hadn't of had to go to the Council with a begging bowl. Where would we be now? Chances are we wouldn't be in Northampton. I'm not sure who came up with the figure of £1.3M a year and why on earth McGinnity thought that the figure was acceptable considering the amount of people we had to get through the door just to break even. The business model was unworkable from 1 November 2005, which was the date we started actually paying rent on the place.

I keep hearing that the Arena is a wonderful community asset but I'd really like to know in what ways the people of Coventry have embraced their asset - apart from the football which most of them never turned up to anyway and ditto with the concerts put on there. Seems it's only a wonderful assets in the minds of Lucas et al and a few people on here.

Without the Club the Arena is a white elephant getting paler by the day. The arena needs the club as much as the club needs the arena. Hopefully one day they'll both realise that and do a deal.

But what did they really get? Can you quantify that? It seems profits from the Tesco deal were used to finance the building of the Ricoh and other revenues that ACL have got from pie sales, sponsorship etc do not amount to that much either? The contracts gained from the likes of Compass would no doubt have helped with their own debt repayments too for construction. With a fairer rent deal and a larger contribution from F & B the Ricoh is a fantastic locally owned asset to the whole community, it is a well appointed crib awaiting the infant but some out of town bandits have snatched the baby and ran off to Northampton with it !

 

[olderskyblue]

SISU will sell the club and the stadium together. IMO.

They won't want their fingers in this pie for longer than is needed. Your opinion is different but it doesn't stack up with the very nature of a hedge funds activities. They are going for the big return, the sale of the complete football club, not to be drip fed rent from a failing football club.

How much do you think they will need to sell the Arena and the football club for to get a "big return" edgy?

 

[torchomatic]

Again, it seems that the club and SISU are separate when it suits. The council wants the club - basically who owns us - to do the work for them. I don't think we should. We are a football club not property developers.

Club yes. Hedge fund that takes the piss out of everyone and everything maybe not. And I suppose you will accuse CCC of milking everything if they end up having to do it all themselves again.

 

[torchomatic]

How long do you think the Arena will last without a football club?

How much do you think they will need to sell the Arena and the football club for to get a "big return" edgy?

 

[Ashdown1]

Well, imagine if we hadn't of had to go to the Council with a begging bowl. Where would we be now? Chances are we wouldn't be in Northampton. I'm not sure who came up with the figure of £1.3M a year and why on earth McGinnity thought that the figure was acceptable considering the amount of people we had to get through the door just to break even. The business model was unworkable from 1 November 2005, which was the date we started actually paying rent on the place.

I keep hearing that the Arena is a wonderful community asset but I'd really like to know in what ways the people of Coventry have embraced their asset - apart from the football which most of them never turned up to anyway and ditto with the concerts put on there. Seems it's only a wonderful assets in the minds of Lucas et al and a few people on here.

Without the Club the Arena is a white elephant getting paler by the day. The arena needs the club as much as the club needs the arena. Hopefully one day they'll both realise that and do a deal.

I can't disagree with much of that. You know though as well as I do that the real potential of that Arena has always been optimistically based around the football team moving on up the leagues not down. In another world and with more luck and better judgement, the Ricoh could have been gracing the Premierships elite and making a fortune for all concerned. The land around is slowly being developed anyway as was originally planned but would have profited massively from regular 25000+ crowds. SISU's biggest crimes were football related when they carried on paying stupid money for useless managers and players alike and also for not completing their due diligence properly and establishing the likely financial scenarios for failure on the pitch as well as the possibilities with success !

 

[Houdi]

How long do you think the Arena will last without a football club?

When ACL release their accounts we will no doubt have a better idea. They seem pretty confident of their future, and have always filed their accounts on time, unlike certain other businesses. Maybe a better question would be ,how long can a business last when it purposely turns its back on 85% of its core customer base.

 

[Danceswithhorses]

I'm not sure who came up with the figure of £1.3M a year and why on earth McGinnity thought that the figure was acceptable considering the amount of people we had to get through the door just to break even.

IIRC that was the rent we were having to pay for highfield road after we'd sold it to developers-please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.
The same amount of rent, for a much better stadium, probably seemed a good deal based on that, but we all know what problems that has caused.

 

[edgy]

How much do you think they will need to sell the Arena and the football club for to get a "big return" edgy?

How am I or any of us supposed to know that?

In simple terms, it'll be their input (which isn't nothing, contrary to the silly myth some like to follow as gospel) plus £X. They may even settle for just their input recouped. But nobody really knows and as such, it's silly to even begin to argue over.

 

[Grendel]

IIRC that was the rent we were having to pay for highfield road after we'd sold it to developers-please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.
The same amount of rent, for a much better stadium, probably seemed a good deal based on that, but we all know what problems that has caused.

So are you saying we got an upfront payment before moving into the Ricoh and the rent only escalated when we stayed after the initial rent period? I didn't know that. Or have you swallowed some PWKH spin?

What would be a better stadium do you think? A faded 24,000 stadium in a central location offering access to all revenues or a 32,000 one requiring you to attract 22,500 every week to break even?

 

[Grendel]

When ACL release their accounts we will no doubt have a better idea. They seem pretty confident of their future, and have always filed their accounts on time, unlike certain other businesses. Maybe a better question would be ,how long can a business last when it purposely turns its back on 85% of its core customer base.

We won't have a better idea - this will be accounts when the club was still there I would guess. Since our departure we have seen fewer concerts, missing out on bids for tournaments and no plans for a permenant tenant.

 

[olderskyblue]

How am I or any of us supposed to know that?

In simple terms, it'll be their input (which isn't nothing, contrary to the silly myth some like to follow as gospel) plus £X. They may even settle for just their input recouped. But nobody really knows and as such, it's silly to even begin to argue over.

Not arguing, just wondered if you had a view on it. I just worry how much debt will remain with CCFC once they've got their "big return".

 

[olderskyblue]

How long do you think the Arena will last without a football club?

What has that got to do with my question torch?