You can't tell me... (11 Viewers)

[Voice_of_Reason]

You can't tell me that SISU do not know what they are doing -- they are astute business people and there has to be some reasoning for continuing to play at Sixfields in front of crowds of 2,000 or less. So what are they playing at ? What's their game ? Why are they prepared to continue losing money ? There just has to be some logic behind what they are doing. But what is it ?

 

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[stupot07]

I can predict how this threads going to go.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[Kingokings204]

Make no mistake, Sisu are losing and will have lost circa 3 million this year alone due to massively wrongly predicted attendances as we know and surely lower commercially sales due to supporter and club loss of interest and trust. Are they really going to do this for 5 years? NO CHANCE. I don't care how much they hate the fans they wont cost themselves another 15mil and for what? End of 5 years something must happen. They are not going to wait 5 years and then come back to ricoh after losing approx 15mil and we all new stadium is a load of crap so has to be a return to the ricoh imminently.

I cant help feel if sixfields only had attendances of 100 or 150 then we would be back already and I do remember ML saying numerous times "a long leasehold is as good as freehold" also TF says on every occasion "Ricoh is plan A" put two and two together I think.

 

[lewys33]

Their game is obvious.

If they win the JR they (I think) plan to sue ACL for damages. Hence why when the "rent-free" offer was made, they rejected. Anything to force ACL out of the picture.

 

[Kingokings204]

Their game is obvious.

If they win the JR they (I think) plan to sue ACL for damages. Hence why when the "rent-free" offer was made, they rejected. Anything to force ACL out of the picture.

They wont win the JR though and say they did and so what? they may sue for damages and if they win that then maybe they would get a few quid but CCC/ACL will never let them have the ricoh. so JR is irrelevant I think.

 

[mark82]

They wont win the JR though and say they did and so what? they may sue for damages and if they win that then maybe they would get a few quid but CCC/ACL will never let them have the ricoh. so JR is irrelevant I think.

How do you know they won't win the JR? Are you an expert on such cases? Are you in possession of evidence from both sides?

 

[The Prefect]

Good shout VoR so here's my opinion.

Hedge Funds make money two ways. On the up by turning businesses round and selling them and on the down cycle by using a downturn to acquire assets more cheaply.

It's my guess that we're in the down cycle with Coventry City. SISU have decided that they can't make money on the 'up cycle' so they are now trying to make money from the decline.

I was astonished that the Football League described SISU as having access to millions of pounds to support the club at Sixfields. If that is the case, why no investment to keep us in the Championship? The reason is that SISU could generate the rent dispute more easily in League One due to lower revenues. We know the history but a 'rental dispute' became a 'match day income' dispute when a lower rent offer was made. When the offer to cross invoice match day revenue was made the dispute moved to 'Freehold ownership'.

The formula price of the club's 50% held by Higgs was millions - which may have valued ACL at £15m-£20m should they have been able to acquire the other 50%. So the bottom line is that we're seeing SISU's plan on distressing ACL starting to work. Without the Club they're hoping ACLs value falls significantly. If it drops to half there could be a £10m discount on acquisition of ACL compared to the price in the Championship. And there's the 'Hedge' - an asset acquisition at half (or potentially less) than the formula price that was agreed years ago. With making money on the decline I can see at least one more relegation because the price of ACL will drop even more.

Building a new stadium can take 5 years - so for now it just a side show. Acquisition of land can be subject to consents and can take the next two years at least without costing huge amounts of money in the meantime.

So SISUs strategy changed when we were struggling in the Championship. They made nothing trying to go up - they saw the onset of 'down' and are now trying to make money from it. SISU don't care how far down we go - so long as they can make money on the way. If it means dropping the Club to League Two or beyond they will do it.

 

[Danceswithhorses]

Good shout VoR so here's my opinion.

Hedge Funds make money two ways. On the up by turning businesses round and selling them and on the down cycle by using a downturn to acquire assets more cheaply.

It's my guess that we're in the down cycle with Coventry City. SISU have decided that they can't make money on the 'up cycle' so they are now trying to make money from the decline.

I was astonished that the Football League described SISU as having access to millions of pounds to support the club at Sixfields. If that is the case, why no investment to keep us in the Championship? The reason is that SISU could generate the rent dispute more easily in League One due to lower revenues. We know the history but a 'rental dispute' became a 'match day income' dispute when a lower rent offer was made. When the offer to cross invoice match day revenue was made the dispute moved to 'Freehold ownership'.

The formula price of the club's 50% held by Higgs was millions - which may have valued ACL at £15m-£20m should they have been able to acquire the other 50%. So the bottom line is that we're seeing SISU's plan on distressing ACL starting to work. Without the Club they're hoping ACLs value falls significantly. If it drops to half there could be a £10m discount on acquisition of ACL compared to the price in the Championship. And there's the 'Hedge' - an asset acquisition at half (or potentially less) than the formula price that was agreed years ago. With making money on the decline I can see at least one more relegation because the price of ACL will drop even more.

Building a new stadium can take 5 years - so for now it just a side show. Acquisition of land can be subject to consents and can take the next two years at least without costing huge amounts of money in the meantime.

So SISUs strategy changed when we were struggling in the Championship. They made nothing trying to go up - they saw the onset of 'down' and are now trying to make money from it. SISU don't care how far down we go - so long as they can make money on the way. If it means dropping the Club to League Two or beyond they will do it.

So in essence, SISU's plan is to screw over CCFC, in order to acquire ACL ?
Seems to be working well for them so far.

 

[Kingokings204]

How do you know they won't win the JR? Are you an expert on such cases? Are you in possession of evidence from both sides?

No I am no expert and you are not. I go by facts and face value. the first judge said there wasn't even a case to answer and he knows more than us. That ok?

 

[Nick]

No I am no expert and you are not. I go by facts and face value. the first judge said there wasn't even a case to answer and he knows more than us. That ok?

But then surely the fact is that the second judge said there was a case so it is 50/50?

 

[lewys33]

Some make it sound like they want the JR to happen? Crazy.

 

[BrisbaneBronco]

Some make it sound like they want the JR to happen? Crazy.

It is happening. Hopefully the outcome will mean closure of this whole sorry affair and not further prolonged legal wranglings.

 

[lewys33]

It is happening. Hopefully the outcome will mean closure of this whole sorry affair and not further prolonged legal wranglings.

I know its happening but surely nobody wanted it? It just prolongs it all further

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Sisu have said previously they'd rather move AEG in instead of ACL, that being said like the OP Sisu will have a Plan A and will have a Plan B, these people aren't fools, unfortunately they're taking there game to there home venue in the courts so how this will play out is anyone's guess.

 

[duffer]

Good shout VoR so here's my opinion.

Hedge Funds make money two ways. On the up by turning businesses round and selling them and on the down cycle by using a downturn to acquire assets more cheaply.

It's my guess that we're in the down cycle with Coventry City. SISU have decided that they can't make money on the 'up cycle' so they are now trying to make money from the decline.

I was astonished that the Football League described SISU as having access to millions of pounds to support the club at Sixfields. If that is the case, why no investment to keep us in the Championship? The reason is that SISU could generate the rent dispute more easily in League One due to lower revenues. We know the history but a 'rental dispute' became a 'match day income' dispute when a lower rent offer was made. When the offer to cross invoice match day revenue was made the dispute moved to 'Freehold ownership'.

The formula price of the club's 50% held by Higgs was millions - which may have valued ACL at £15m-£20m should they have been able to acquire the other 50%. So the bottom line is that we're seeing SISU's plan on distressing ACL starting to work. Without the Club they're hoping ACLs value falls significantly. If it drops to half there could be a £10m discount on acquisition of ACL compared to the price in the Championship. And there's the 'Hedge' - an asset acquisition at half (or potentially less) than the formula price that was agreed years ago. With making money on the decline I can see at least one more relegation because the price of ACL will drop even more.

Building a new stadium can take 5 years - so for now it just a side show. Acquisition of land can be subject to consents and can take the next two years at least without costing huge amounts of money in the meantime.

So SISUs strategy changed when we were struggling in the Championship. They made nothing trying to go up - they saw the onset of 'down' and are now trying to make money from it. SISU don't care how far down we go - so long as they can make money on the way. If it means dropping the Club to League Two or beyond they will do it.

I don't doubt that SISU's plan involves distressing ACL, it's really the only reason I can see for us not playing at the Ricoh now, but I don't think it's related to the formula as such because that died with CCFC Ltd.

As I see it though, no one can force ACL to sell to SISU. If CCC and The Higgs Trust agreed they could sell up, but at the moment given all of the history (and the fact that SISU don't seem to be likely to offer very much), it seems somewhat unlikely that we'd get both parties agreeing to do that.

I think SISUs plan is probably more of a gamble, based on the JR and its possible effects, and perhaps the hope that the other sides will simply tire of it all and give in. Once the JR is done and dusted I think things will move fairly quickly. If it doesn't go SISU's way my gut feel is they'll look to cut their losses and move on, although I doubt it will be painless...

 

[Sterling Archer]

Didn't you get the memo? Their plan all along was to flood the UK, paying particular attention to Crawley.

Sinister.

 

[edgy]

Didn't you get the memo? Their plan all along was to flood the UK, paying particular attention to Crawley.

Sinister.

And then release the aqua-lizards.

 

[mark82]

I know its happening but surely nobody wanted it? It just prolongs it all further

If it helps get to the bottom of this mess in any way, I'm all for it. Especially if it gets us back to the Ricoh.

 

[sky blue john]

Sisu have said previously they'd rather move AEG in instead of ACL, that being said like the OP
Sisu will have a Plan A and will have a Plan B, these people aren't fools, unfortunately they're taking there game to there home venue in the courts so how this will play out is anyone's guess.

So instead of Acl taking a cut of ccfc generated revenues it would be Aeg. How will this arrangement benefit anyone other than Sisu.
If this ever happened i will probably have to make the decision of boycotting the ricoh based on the fact that ccfc will not be benefitting from all the revenue being generated !!!!

 

[lewys33]

If it helps get to the bottom of this mess in any way, I'm all for it. Especially if it gets us back to the Ricoh.

It only puts 1 side under the spotlight. If the judge had said no again, would sisu have had a plan c?

 

[Houchens Head]

All this talk about JR............. I thought someone shot him years ago? :thinking about:

 

[covcity4life]

All this talk about JR............. I thought someone shot him years ago? :thinking about:

sisu shot him.

 

[Sterling Archer]

And then release the aqua-lizards.

David Icke was right. He warned us all about this and we did nothing. NOTHING! DAMN US ALL TO HELLSU!

 

[shy_tall_knight]

David Icke was right. He warned us all about this and we did nothing. NOTHING! DAMN US ALL TO HELLSU!

Sterling your comments are hardly funny, this is a serious discussion on the issue that is blighting us, have you anything intelligent to contribute or to challenge what is being said above, its not conspiracy theories here its hard business with our club in the middle of it. Go on give us your thoughts on the SISU strategy.

 

[Sterling Archer]

No you're right, this quite simply is NOT the time for funny quips on an internet forum AKA the place where it really REALLY matters.

Nick, ban me. I'm a fool.

 

[BrisbaneBronco]

I know its happening but surely nobody wanted it? It just prolongs it all further

Think that it is needed, in order to get things, we are not aware of out into the open.
Maybe then, we can see whose to blame.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

So instead of Acl taking a cut of ccfc generated revenues it would be Aeg. How will this arrangement benefit anyone other than Sisu.
If this ever happened i will probably have to make the decision of boycotting the ricoh based on the fact that ccfc will not be benefitting from all the revenue being generated !!!!

If I remember rightly Sisu wanted tro bring AEG in to promote the Arena and gain more business and events on days where there aren't matchdays, of course this is what ACL are doing currently and it's something I don't have any issue with.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Sterling your comments are hardly funny, this is a serious discussion on the issue that is blighting us, have you anything intelligent to contribute or to challenge what is being said above, its not conspiracy theories here its hard business with our club in the middle of it. Go on give us your thoughts on the SISU strategy.

We have had months to be all doom and gloom about our situation as with about 99.9% of threads on this forum, I think a couple of posts of humour wouldn't actually kill anyone.

 

[Sterling Archer]

However, you are in luck, its a slow day at work and I will give you my thoughts on SISU since you asked so nicely and seemingly are interested in what this faceless internet user under the pseudonym of an American cartoon character thinks of SISU.

To start off, truth is none of us know. We can all make guesses and assumptions on what the plan is, what the end game is but with all the facts I have at my disposal and the actions all parties of taken and if I HAD to make a guess this is what I think.

Quite simply, it seems as though SISU are doing all they can from a business perspective to get the Ricoh Arena as cheap as possible. The Northampton move suggest to me, they are very ballsy and believe this will help them succeed in doing so. Why? Well, when they first came into the club and subsequent comments from SISU seem to suggest they saw this like any other investment a hedge fund like there's make. To make money. This has spectacularly backfired due to on field performances, which you can argue SISU have contributed to. It seems as though they didn't really know what they were getting themselves into, sold a fairytale of Premiership riches from Ray Ranson which they stupidly believed would be easier than it turned out to be. Relegation followed and now they are quite simply looking to make the club (or the business surrounding the club) as marketable as possible in order to recoup as much money as possible before sailing into the sunset and forgetting they were ever involved in the complicated business world of football. They have made mistakes and they are now playing hardball to quite simply get the stadium on the cheap and sell us as a package. Its no secret that the club is much more saleable with the Ricoh Arena.

To summarise, get the Ricoh on the cheap by any means necessary regardless of the detrimental effect it has on the team and fans before selling it as a package and running away from football back to investments they know how to handle.

This is only an opinion and one that could well be spectacularly wrong. Unlike others I'm not going to claim I know what I'm talking about as hedge funds and football business models is not my field/forte/choice of subject for mastermind.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Nick, ban me. I'm a fool.[/QUOTE]

I appreciate the honesty from a SISU apologist. My opinion its all about the Ricoh, a gamble involving the JR and if that fails a continued presence in Northants until they get the Ricoh on their terms. They will achieve this in a cash neutral way selling players with minimal investment. Relegation to L2 will have minimal impact on income. 2 or 3 years of absence will make the stadium look like a white elephant civic embarrassment to CCC / cov residents etc...

SISU are not going anywhere nor will they return to the Ricoh unless on their terms.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I appreciate the honesty from a SISU apologist. My opinion its all about the Ricoh, a gamble involving the JR and if that fails a continued presence in Northants until they get the Ricoh on their terms. They will achieve this in a cash neutral way selling players with minimal investment. Relegation to L2 will have minimal impact on income. 2 or 3 years of absence will make the stadium look like a white elephant civic embarrassment to CCC / cov residents etc...

SISU are not going anywhere nor will they return to the Ricoh unless on their terms.

Why am I a SISU apologist?

You've either jumped to a conclusion or not seen my posts over the years. Either way, lets just hope you never get called up for jury service with that kind of judgement.

SISU have made bad choices. SISU have not done a good job. It is terrible that we are not playing in our home city. I would love new owners to come in and throw pots of money at us, take us back to Coventry and concentrate on the 'on-the-field' stuff rather than the boring and damning politics of the business side of the football club. There currently seems to be no genuine or serious alternative. This is a shame. This is bad. This doesn't make me suicidal or makes me want to contact my solicitor to start divorce proceedings against Coventry City Football Club (although I might have grounds for divorce from them because judging by other posters, CCFC is a bigamist).

I look forward to your apology for labeling me as something I'm not you Leicester supporting squirrel botherer*





*I don't really think you're a squirrel botherer or a Leicester fan.

 

[Captain Dart]

The formula price of the club's 50% held by Higgs was millions - which may have valued ACL at £15m-£20m should they have been able to acquire the other 50%. So the bottom line is that we're seeing SISU's plan on distressing ACL starting to work. Without the Club they're hoping ACLs value falls significantly. If it drops to half there could be a £10m discount on acquisition of ACL compared to the price in the Championship. And there's the 'Hedge' - an asset acquisition at half (or potentially less) than the formula price that was agreed years ago. With making money on the decline I can see at least one more relegation because the price of ACL will drop even more.

At some point there is a cross over when the potential gain is outstripped by the losses incurred staying at Sixfields. Another way to reduce them is another relegation.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Apology is in the cyber-post, I wrongly concluded from your post that you were taking the pi$$ during this discussion as certain SISU apologists do, to avoid discussing what they have done with the club. There you go a big apology not sure about the squirrel & Leicester thing.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I'm taking the piss 90% of the time to be fair otherwise I'd merely be copying and pasting my opinon on the SISU/Sixfields situation day in/day out. Beleive it or not, I bore myself at times trying to make sense of it all.

Unlike others though, I'm not going to start a thread craving attention and sympathy for a situation we all find ourselves in.

 

[lewys33]

I'm taking the piss 90% of the time to be fair otherwise I'd merely be copying and pasting my opinon on the SISU/Sixfields situation day in/day out. Beleive it or not, I bore myself at times trying to make sense of it all.

Unlike others though, I'm not going to start a thread craving attention and sympathy for a situation we all find ourselves in.

Aren't you a mighty amazing being