SCG Meeting (7 Viewers)

[wingy]

Just an extension of their press silencing,fan dividing its all every one else strategy

 

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[duffer]

I think you misunderstood my point. What I mean is that sisu/ML seem very upset/frustrated (that's the smoke) and that there must be a reason for this (there's the fire). I can't myself understand their reasons (I can't see the fire) but it would be nice to know.

Two possiblities to my mind:

1) If he chucks enough mud around about things like fans being manipulated by PR companies, some of it might stick.

2) He really is paranoid enough to believe that SBT have been infiltrated/influenced by Weber Shandwick, despite there being little or no evidence.

Personally, I think it's a bit of both. He's a master bullshitter, who even when obviously caught out denies the truth. To someone like that, the more confusion and misinformation you spread, the better - because it makes it that much harder to see the truth.

Also, I don't think ML or TF understand how much they are absolutely detested by a large proportion of Coventry fans, or why. They seem to think they're hated because someone's been telling lies about them (Weber Shandwick). What they need to realise is that they're hated because of what they've done to the club, and what they continue to do.

 

[duffer]

So you are only allowed to have your say if you agree with them. What is the point of a Stadium Consultation Group if no one is allowed to have their own opinion?



Glad we're spending time looking at these vital issues.



This is frankly absolute bollocks. There's no way you're going to have a tour schedule that includes the O2, Glasgow Hydro and then a football stadium in the 'Coventry area'. It would for a start be a logistical nightmare, most of the large arena tours are designed based on being able to fly staging, lighting etc from the roof, would be impossible / prohibitively expensive in a stadium, acts aren't going to move to an outdoor show which can't cope with the setup over an existing highly successful arenas such as the LG, NIA, NIC etc. And if AEG are so desperate for a Midlands venue surely they'll bid for the NEC?

Also, if you did want a big outdoors show in the Coventry Area, wouldn't you want to book the much bigger Ricoh Arena than the 12,000 seat middle-of-nowhere Timmytown?

 

[chiefdave]

Also, if you did want a big outdoors show in the Coventry Area, wouldn't you want to book the much bigger Ricoh Arena than the 12,000 seat middle-of-nowhere Timmytown?

You mean a venue that is sat right next to the motorway, has a track record of putting on shows and, going by the industry awards its been nominated for, is considered to be one of the top venues in the country? Of course not you'd go to a tinpot stadium in the middle of nowhere.

 

[shmmeee]

I think you misunderstood my point. What I mean is that sisu/ML seem very upset/frustrated (that's the smoke) and that there must be a reason for this (there's the fire). I can't myself understand their reasons (I can't see the fire) but it would be nice to know.

They're upset because we haven't all rolled over and given them what they want IMO. It's the height of arrogance. The people of Coventry have rejected their plans and they're acting like spoilt kids who haven't got their way.

Apologies to your Mum then, that phrase is one of my triggers. I don't like slander, I think things like this should be a clean fight.

 

[Godiva]

Two possiblities to my mind:

1) If he chucks enough mud around about things like fans being manipulated by PR companies, some of it might stick.

2) He really is paranoid enough to believe that SBT have been infiltrated/influenced by Weber Shandwick, despite there being little or no evidence.

Personally, I think it's a bit of both. He's a master bullshitter, who even when obviously caught out denies the truth. To someone like that, the more confusion and misinformation you spread, the better - because it makes it that much harder to see the truth.

Maybe - I don't know him neither personally or professionally, so I can't say.
Out of interest - do you know him?

 

[shmmeee]

I think you're wrong. Most people wanted sisu gone before moving us to Northampton.

That last close season in the championship people were up in arms about the lack of investment and how poor the squad was. Then we had all the sisu out protests,flags at games etc and eventually we were relegated.

The move to Northampton looked to finally tip the likes of yourself over the edge.

My worry is that if they bring us back to the Ricoh the likes of yourself will roll over and forgive and forget.

Ive been saying since 2009(and i was slaughtered at the time) that sisu need_to go.

Unfortunately i was right all along.

With all due respect, while I agree there was a growing "Sisu Out" feeling, it was still confined to a few hardcore. A lot of normal/casual fans didn't join in. It takes a lot to get us upset, we do moaning very well. The fact that you were slaughtered in 2009 kinda proves my point.

You're right though, not everyone needed Sixfields to tip them over, but that probably brought over the biggest tranche. Relegation fights and lack of investment are often seen as par for the course for City owners. I still think a majority were with them until the ground share.

There has been a growing swell of opinion against Sisu for years. To claim that Weber Shandwick are in any way responsible for the terrible public image of the organisation is pure paranoid fantasy.

 

[Godiva]

They're upset because we haven't all rolled over and given them what they want IMO. It's the height of arrogance. The people of Coventry have rejected their plans and they're acting like spoilt kids who haven't got their way.

Apologies to your Mum then, that phrase is one of my triggers. I don't like slander, I think things like this should be a clean fight.

A clean fight? With a hedge fund and politicians involved? Really?

Anyway - one part is giving just as good as the other. The only thing I know is the club is not at the Ricoh and the only way that can be corrected is by ccc/Higgs selling their shares in ACL to SBS&L.

 

[Astute]

I think you misunderstood my point. What I mean is that sisu/ML seem very upset/frustrated (that's the smoke) and that there must be a reason for this (there's the fire). I can't myself understand their reasons (I can't see the fire) but it would be nice to know.

The smoke is something SISU have been doing for a bit. Like when ML said about ACL running at a loss. When he got questioned how he knew this he had to admit he had no proof. They keep making allegations hoping something will stick. Like during this meeting where it sounds like there was a close to being forced phone call made.

They also made a threat saying anyone found to be doing anything wrong at the council will be in serious trouble. If they had any proof of any wrongdoing we would have heard about it by now.

Lots of smoke but I can't even see anything smoldering. He wants a meeting with the council before the JR. Is this in hope of finding something out? By the looks of it all they have for the JR is countless allegations. If most can be proved false and none true it will be like last time where the judge more or less called Joy a liar. And there won't be any grounds for an appeal.

If we can see through ML's lies easily what chance will he have in a court room where he is getting questioned and will have to give answers? I would pay to see that.

 

[wingy]

You can't beat a City!!

 

[shmmeee]

Maybe - I don't know him neither personally or professionally, so I can't say.
Out of interest - do you know him?

I know the company he keeps and it hardly suggests he's an honest character. The man has been around dodgy businessmen his entire life, including our own Mr Blair after he left office.

I'm not into guilty by association but:

As COO of Firerush, Labovitch was at the centre of a complex web of companies that, due to the way they are structured, have to disclose only a minimal amount of information concerning Blair's business operations, the profits he makes or indeed how he makes his money.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/sep/24/tony-blair-mark-labovitch-resignation

 

[The Gentleman]

With all due respect, while I agree there was a growing "Sisu Out" feeling, it was still confined to a few hardcore. A lot of normal/casual fans didn't join in. It takes a lot to get us upset, we do moaning very well. The fact that you were slaughtered in 2009 kinda proves my point.

You're right though, not everyone needed Sixfields to tip them over, but that probably brought over the biggest tranche. Relegation fights and lack of investment are often seen as par for the course for City owners. I still think a majority were with them until the ground share.

There has been a growing swell of opinion against Sisu for years. To claim that Weber Shandwick are in any way responsible for the terrible public image of the organisation is pure paranoid fantasy.

I think the growing discontent has come from people opening their eyes together with the Fisher and Labovitch sideshow providing people with all the ammunition they need to shoot them down. I find it unbelievable that Labovitch is blaming others for the work he is clearly doing himself.

 

[lordsummerisle]

You mean a venue that is sat right next to the motorway, has a track record of putting on shows and, going by the industry awards its been nominated for, is considered to be one of the top venues in the country? Of course not you'd go to a tinpot stadium in the middle of nowhere.

You've already said how the Ricoh is unsuitable for theses concerts as well.

there's no way you're going to have a tour schedule that includes the O2, Glasgow Hydro and then a football stadium in the 'Coventry area'. It would for a start be a logistical nightmare, most of the large arena tours are designed based on being able to fly staging, lighting etc from the roof, would be impossible / prohibitively expensive in a stadium, acts aren't going to move to an outdoor show which can't cope with the setup over an existing highly successful arenas such as the LG, NIA, NIC etc. And if AEG are so desperate for a Midlands venue surely they'll bid for the NEC?

 

[duffer]

Maybe - I don't know him neither personally or professionally, so I can't say.
Out of interest - do you know him?

I think he came round the house once, it was either double-glazing or driveway cleaning. Charming chap, though somehow he seemed to end up with my wedding ring after we'd shaken hands.

No chap, I don't know him. But him and Fisher have been caught out more than once in absolute lies. Why would the Weber Shandwick thing be any different?

 

[Lorksalordy]

Have minutes from previous meetings been published in a similar fashion ? I can't recall seeing them although if they had and I had read them then I can understand my brain erasing them for the good my general sanity.

After having had the misfortune of reading them all the way through I see only three conclusions that can be reached...

1. If they are manipulated and written in a way that is meant to provide PR to put the club / SISU in a better light then they are madder than I thought
2. If this an actual bona fide account of the meeting then they are also madder than I thought
3. It would be funny if it wasn't actually from people that we are relying on to resolve this utter bollocks

 

[shmmeee]

As I said Fisher tried this with the previous Trust Chair at the Holdings meeting. Making up bullshit in the hope of discrediting his opponent.

I hope this incident has shown the Trust that trying to "work with the club" is a fools errand.

They were absolutely right to refuse to help Sisu move the club in the first place for just this reason.

The mere fact that Fisher, as CEO of the club, has been allowed to consistently slander and do down the largest fans organisation the club has is an utter disgrace and only enabled by some who have always enjoyed kicking the Trust.

First they came for the hillers, and I said nothing because I wasn't a hiller
Then they came for the NOPMers, and I said nothing because I wasn't a NOMPer
Then they came for the Trust, and I said nothing because I wasn't a Trust member
Then they came for me, and there was no-one left to speak for me

 

[Astute]

A clean fight? With a hedge fund and politicians involved? Really?

Anyway - one part is giving just as good as the other. The only thing I know is the club is not at the Ricoh and the only way that can be corrected is by ccc/Higgs selling their shares in ACL to SBS&L.

And what happened more recently when Higgs tried to sell their share to SISU?

 

[Godiva]

The smoke is something SISU have been doing for a bit. Like when ML said about ACL running at a loss. When he got questioned how he knew this he had to admit he had no proof. They keep making allegations hoping something will stick. Like during this meeting where it sounds like there was a close to being forced phone call made.

They also made a threat saying anyone found to be doing anything wrong at the council will be in serious trouble. If they had any proof of any wrongdoing we would have heard about it by now.

Lots of smoke but I can't even see anything smoldering. He wants a meeting with the council before the JR. Is this in hope of finding something out? By the looks of it all they have for the JR is countless allegations. If most can be proved false and none true it will be like last time where the judge more or less called Joy a liar. And there won't be any grounds for an appeal.

If we can see through ML's lies easily what chance will he have in a court room where he is getting questioned and will have to give answers? I would pay to see that.

I don't know how well ACL is doing - we won't even know when the new set of accounts are filed. We may know when the next set is due in 2015. But we do know that ACL have a new frontman and from the interview I got the impression all was not well, but will be soon. (I can easily have over-interpreted the interview!).

But let's hope some truth will be revealed during the JR about how involved all parties really are. Until then I won't call anybody a liar.

 

[chiefdave]

You've already said how the Ricoh is unsuitable for theses concerts as well.

You're confusing 2 different things. Duffer mentioned about outdoor shows which the first comment is related to. Anyone looking to put on a stadium show would most likely pick the Ricoh, as a stadium with a good track record in putting on shows, above a new stadium away from a major city.

The second comment relates to ML asserting that a new stadium would be part of AEG's tour routing between their venues in London (The O2 & Wembley) and in Glasgow (The Hydro). This is a nonstarter. How many arena tours do you see that have a stadium show in the middle of the tour routing? It just doesn't happen. You will sometimes get an arena tour that's been a good seller adapted to become a stadium tour on a second leg or vice versa but it's incredibly rare to have a random stadium date in the middle of a tour and not something you should be building into a business plan for a new stadium.

Given that the NEC is now likely to be up for sale if AEG have any intention of establishing a footprint in the midlands it is more than likely that will be their preference.

 

[Astute]

I don't know how well ACL is doing - we won't even know when the new set of accounts are filed. We may know when the next set is due in 2015. But we do know that ACL have a new frontman and from the interview I got the impression all was not well, but will be soon. (I can easily have over-interpreted the interview!).

But let's hope some truth will be revealed during the JR about how involved all parties really are. Until then I won't call anybody a liar.

He made out as though he knew that ACL was running at a loss. Then had to admit he didn't know.

How long can three weeks last? He then tried to say he didn't say it and was misquoted.

Look at the meeting for more allegations without substance.

To me it seems like they know that they are on a loser here. They are desperately trying to find something they can use.

 

[Astute]

You're confusing 2 different things. Duffer mentioned about outdoor shows which the first comment is related to. Anyone looking to put on a stadium show would most likely pick the Ricoh, as a stadium with a good track record in putting on shows, above a new stadium away from a major city.

The second comment relates to ML asserting that a new stadium would be part of AEG's tour routing between their venues in London (The O2 & Wembley) and in Glasgow (The Hydro). This is a nonstarter. How many arena tours do you see that have a stadium show in the middle of the tour routing? It just doesn't happen. You will sometimes get an arena tour that's been a good seller adapted to become a stadium tour on a second leg or vice versa but it's incredibly rare to have a random stadium date in the middle of a tour and not something you should be building into a business plan for a new stadium.

Given that the NEC is now likely to be up for sale if AEG have any intention of establishing a footprint in the midlands it is more than likely that will be their preference.

Give Lord a break. At least he has shown his face on a thread where there is so much evidence against SISU and what they are up to. A few normal posters that join just about every thread have kept well away from this one.

 

[shmmeee]

Have minutes from previous meetings been published in a similar fashion ? I can't recall seeing them although if they had and I had read them then I can understand my brain erasing them for the good my general sanity.

After having had the misfortune of reading them all the way through I see only three conclusions that can be reached...

1. If they are manipulated and written in a way that is meant to provide PR to put the club / SISU in a better light then they are madder than I thought
2. If this an actual bona fide account of the meeting then they are also madder than I thought
3. It would be funny if it wasn't actually from people that we are relying on to resolve this utter bollocks

The last set was online certainly, not sure about before that.

On another topic:

TS advised that it had become clear at both of Sandra’s initial new stadium meetings that no Coventry City season ticket holders, fans, fans’ groups etc had ever been consulted on what they would like in the Ricoh Arena – it was simply a case of ‘here is your stadium’.

This is utter crap. Sandra pushed this line several times unprompted and got one or two people agree. In fact most of the "ideas" seem to be ones that she came to the forum with in the first place.

It's true that we were never consulted, but I'm not sure that it was a genuine supporter concern until she raised it.

Seems a little disingenuous to me.

 

[chiefdave]

It's true that we were never consulted, but I'm not sure that it was a genuine supporter concern until she raised it.

I never remember it being an issue. We were told where it was going to be and shown plans well in advance and I don't recall any great outcry about the seat colour being wrong or anything like that.

Are there things that could be improved at the Ricoh? Of course there is but I don't think there's anything major or anything that couldn't be fairly easily sorted if the club were playing there and had a decent working relationship with ACL.

 

[Godiva]

He made out as though he knew that ACL was running at a loss. Then had to admit he didn't know.

How long can three weeks last? He then tried to say he didn't say it and was misquoted.

Look at the meeting for more allegations without substance.

To me it seems like they know that they are on a loser here. They are desperately trying to find something they can use.

I think he had a good look at ACL accounts during the due diligence and as the club is swamped with (TF's words: Forensic Accountants) they have probably done a bit of calculation and come to the conclusion ACL must be running at a loss. They can't know for sure, but they can make some educated guesses. Spice up those guess works and put the spin machinery into full throttle.

Looking desperately for things to use now? No, it's too late for that. All the actions took place before this season started - they should have what they think they need already, otherwise they will lose in court.

 

[Astute]

I think he had a good look at ACL accounts during the due diligence and as the club is swamped with (TF's words: Forensic Accountants) they have probably done a bit of calculation and come to the conclusion ACL must be running at a loss. They can't know for sure, but they can make some educated guesses. Spice up those guess works and put the spin machinery into full throttle.

Looking desperately for things to use now? No, it's too late for that. All the actions took place before this season started - they should have what they think they need already, otherwise they will lose in court.

Exactly.

If they had any evidence of anything why do they keep throwing allegations about? They could just sit there with a smug look on their faces if they thought they had something.

 

[chiefdave]

If they had any evidence of anything why do they keep throwing allegations about? They could just sit there with a smug look on their faces if they thought they had something.

Didn't they go to court after the initial application for a JR has been rejected and ask for access to council and / or ACL documents. To me that implies they don't have all the information and they're hoping something will turn up when it all gets investigated. If you had all the evidence you needed you wouldn't be asking for more access or making allegations, you'd keep quiet knowing your case was sound and when it got to court you'd win.

 

[lewys33]

Weber Shandwick have probably got the easiest job in the world! I could do the PR for ACL and make Fisher look a bellend!

 

[Godiva]

Weber Shandwick have probably got the easiest job in the world! I could do the PR for ACL and make Fisher look a bellend!

So the question is: Why employ them?

 

[lewys33]

This is utter crap. Sandra pushed this line several times unprompted and got one or two people agree. In fact most of the "ideas" seem to be ones that she came to the forum with in the first place.

It's true that we were never consulted, but I'm not sure that it was a genuine supporter concern until she raised it.

Seems a little disingenuous to me.

I am sure it will go down in History about how the council didnt let us have "safe standing areas" back in 2005! Sandra is our hero.

 

[lewys33]

So the question is: Why employ them?

How the hell should I know? I thought that statement would have made it clear I know sod all about PR.

 

[wingy]

I think he had a good look at ACL accounts during the due diligence and as the club is swamped with (TF's words: Forensic Accountants) they have probably done a bit of calculation and come to the conclusion ACL must be running at a loss. They can't know for sure, but they can make some educated guesses. Spice up those guess works and put the spin machinery into full throttle.

Looking desperately for things to use now? No, it's too late for that. All the actions took place before this season started - they should have what they think they need already, otherwise they will lose in court.

More like they used HIGGS as a stalking
horse to attain information for their botched attempt to entrap the council in outlandish plot against YB

 

[chiefdave]

So the question is: Why employ them?

Do we actually know for a fact WS are engaged purely to deal with the CCFC / SISU situation? Do ACL have a seperate PR company who deal with their general PR?

 

[Godiva]

More like they used HIGGS as a stalking
horse to attain information for their botched attempt to entrap the council in outlandish plot against YB

Guessing is fun, isn't it?

 

[Godiva]

Do we actually know for a fact WS are engaged purely to deal with the CCFC / SISU situation? Do ACL have a seperate PR company who deal with their general PR?

Maybe one of their 'operators' will post a confirmation here that they are ONLY doing simple advertising for ACL events?

 

[Astute]

Maybe one of their 'operators' will post a confirmation here that they are ONLY doing simple advertising for ACL events?

Or wait for the allegations to come out in the JR from SISU before offering the truth.