J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Yeah, they did something similar about voting the elite player performance plan in. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22293207
Maths (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter dongonzalos
- Start date
Yeah, they did something similar about voting the elite player performance plan in. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22293207
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Yea, I'm pretty sure it is half and half on the academy
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
It would be extremely difficult to stay in the championship on low wages.
Bristol were relegated with a wage bill of 18.6 million and Wolves 25 million
IIRC it was under a lot of pressure from the PL and that the deal was part of the parachute payment proposals and the PL basically said either except this or we will withdraw the payments full stop or something to that effect...
Yep they did (allegedly)....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8671551.stm
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You are right Stu, doe'm absolve him or those that followed of the reduction in turnover, That's a lot of money to give away, made using less competitive while still paying high salaries,and did'nt grow fan numbers to compensate.Guess what I'm
saying Is It seems to indicate it may have been an early consequence and illustration that those funding us cost us some turnover combined through paying out interest to promote St scheme and secondly reducing price twice,might be one of reasons our turnover was so much lower than all those other clubs in the champ
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Let's say we don't get promoted in the meantime.
Average ticket price at the Ricoh was £9.50, that was in the Championship (wasn't it?), so let's say £7.50 in L1. Taking the Sixfields fiasco as costing us no fans (let's say they ones that go are balanced out by new fans for new stadium) we'd lose 1500-2000 fans without success over that time anyway. So we're at gates of 8k, paying £7.50. That's £60k/game, say 25 games: £1.5m/season. Add in £500k TV rights, say another £500k each year from either a big game or a player sale on average. I can't find much on shirt sponsorship other than a quote from Bristol saying it's £50k in L2. Let's be generous and say £100k in L1, plus another £100k in corporate and another £250k (10k/game) on advertising, etc. That's £2.95m, call it £3m, maybe £200k a season for the naming rights. I can't see our income breaching £4m/season being generous.
Then you've got £1.3m+ a season in interest to ARVO, any cost for the stadium build/rental, which would have to be close to £1m/season even if we just paid the interest. That's before you even pay a single player. Wages will be £2m/season at least. And we're already making a loss before getting to match day costs, advertising, etc.
I just can't see it adding up.
Average ticket price at the Ricoh was £9.50, that was in the Championship (wasn't it?), so let's say £7.50 in L1. Taking the Sixfields fiasco as costing us no fans (let's say they ones that go are balanced out by new fans for new stadium) we'd lose 1500-2000 fans without success over that time anyway. So we're at gates of 8k, paying £7.50. That's £60k/game, say 25 games: £1.5m/season. Add in £500k TV rights, say another £500k each year from either a big game or a player sale on average. I can't find much on shirt sponsorship other than a quote from Bristol saying it's £50k in L2. Let's be generous and say £100k in L1, plus another £100k in corporate and another £250k (10k/game) on advertising, etc. That's £2.95m, call it £3m, maybe £200k a season for the naming rights. I can't see our income breaching £4m/season being generous.
Then you've got £1.3m+ a season in interest to ARVO, any cost for the stadium build/rental, which would have to be close to £1m/season even if we just paid the interest. That's before you even pay a single player. Wages will be £2m/season at least. And we're already making a loss before getting to match day costs, advertising, etc.
I just can't see it adding up.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
The question needs exploring
But by who and when?
Simon Gilbert (CET)
The stadium consultation group
Or the other group where ML challenged Steve?
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I think it was about £10.90 IIRC.
MK dons have approx 8k attendances, anyone know what their turnover is?
Just found something from 2011, their turnover was £6.2m and wages (all staff & players) £4.1m, loss just under £1m
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stupot07
Well-Known Member
Yep, that's true, they tried to keep crowds high by reducing ST's and ticket prices as a whole. We had some of the lowest prices in championship and last season in league. You could argue they tried to do the right thing for fans there, but not necessarily the right thing for the club. We quite often have posters complaining that it's too expensive citing it as a reason for not going despite us being one of the cheapest tickets in the league.
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dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
I think it was about £10.90 IIRC.
MK dons have approx 8k attendances, anyone know what their turnover is?
Just found something from 2011, their turnover was £6.2m and wages (all staff & players) £4.1m, loss just under £1m
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Is that with 2 million in interest charges or would they have had similar due to their stadium?
stupot07
Well-Known Member
No idea. .
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
Can you please explain the purpose of this - its all rather boring.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
A serious discussion to see if a new stadium could be financially viable. If it isn't then try and get the question posed to SISU so we can understand why they think it us.
A thread lacking cheap jibes and low brow humour. Give it a miss there are better threads for you.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It's not serious its based on crude maths and assumptions and you seem to be starting very similar threads on the same subjects.
How was it viable for Brighton to build a stadium - cost £90 million didn't it? Are there other stadiums that have been financed? Is rotherhams council owned or privately owned? Is shrewbury's? Isn't that a better way to asses viability than guess?
Surely shouldn't be beyond the realms of a decent Economist or Administrator, even a UNI student dissertation to debunk this Idea. Sure we have a few of those in the fan base.
In reality I think we all know the answer ,the reasoning and the likely outcome of this Folly.
In reality I think we all know the answer ,the reasoning and the likely outcome of this Folly.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I think it was about £10.90 IIRC.
MK dons have approx 8k attendances, anyone know what their turnover is?
Just found something from 2011, their turnover was £6.2m and wages (all staff & players) £4.1m, loss just under £1m
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Help a business dunce out. Is turnover what a layman would call income?
OK, so I undershot income and wages by £2m each, but that balances out. Obviously I don't know what MK Dons other costs are, do they own that stadium? If so they must get a fair bit in terms of other revenue, it's more Ricoh than LegoLand. If not, they must pay a bit in rent I'd imagine.
I was! thinking that turnover of theirs was a little low if you factor in all the other events they hold there, unless the owner has that factored out to his own company.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
But then it wouldn't be counted in FFP. How are MK paying those losses is the question, are they taking a loan/overdraft or are they being paid off in some way?
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Should've said the figures were from 2011, not how many events they used to hold back then compared with in the last year.
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Winkleman supposed to be minted Isn't he?
He's either putting In as equity or loading in as loan, I'guess at the latter ,you're right about the ffp bit.
Yeah I did notice they were old numbers Stu cheers.Should've said the figures were from 2011, not how many events they used to hold back then compared with in the last year.
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Instead of being a bellend Grendel how about you give us your take on the " theoretical arena SISU" and what you think income v outgoings will be .
For the life of me I can't see it ever being financially viable but perhaps you can enlighten us all.
Thanks in advance.
Thinking more around the OP a question poses itself to me.
When we moved into the RICOH the cost per game to cover the rent was £50k. Or £2 per ticket on a crowd of 25k.More realistically £3per ticket on say 17k.this apparently on a net take per ticket of £11what's that around 27% ?
Obviously under the most recent offer that ratio would improve 3. fold @ £1 per ticket but illustrates how harmful the arrangement was.
So how does that compare. with the Costs per match per ticket of any future SISU owned ground? Anyone want to do the sums?
When we moved into the RICOH the cost per game to cover the rent was £50k. Or £2 per ticket on a crowd of 25k.More realistically £3per ticket on say 17k.this apparently on a net take per ticket of £11what's that around 27% ?
Obviously under the most recent offer that ratio would improve 3. fold @ £1 per ticket but illustrates how harmful the arrangement was.
So how does that compare. with the Costs per match per ticket of any future SISU owned ground? Anyone want to do the sums?
Not really because we don't know how much rent SISU could charge CCFC . It could be 1million a season or 10million . We just don't know. Can't see them letting CCFC play there for free though.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Absolutely, if they made a sensible offer to buy lock stock & barrel, and take responsibility for existing contractual arrangements there is no business reason for the owners not to sell and be rid of the problem.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Either someone else (most likely council) builds it and you rent it or you build it yourself.
If you're building it yourself you have to raise finance, most teams have an existing ground they can sell to at least part finance the move the rest will come via a loan / mortgage / investment. Of course that means repayments and interest, how many clubs who have build their own grounds have annual repayments exceeding the amount we were paying in 'crippling' rent at the Ricoh.
I assume this is what people mean when they ask how is the new stadium financially viable. Payments of £1.2m a year were said to be crippling. We're currently paying £1m a year interest on a £10m loan from AVRO (OSB probably has more accurate figures), add in anywhere from another £10-40m in financing for the new stadium, how we will meet the repayments?
You mean buy the shares? At a fair value? Yes?
Then we agree - when do we start asking CCC to accept sisu's invitation to do an independent valuation? Or two?
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
You know full well I think it is up to SISU to take the initiative on this, they need to get a valuation done & make an opening offer, they are the buyer.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
Depends on the design, it can be negligible.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
For how much?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
The Ricoh cost 120 million to build.
You are missing the point as usual.
You will accept SISU's aim is to get their money back.
The stadium is their proposed solution to do this.
Simple question how?