magic82ball
New Member
What planet are you on mate?
SISU fill the first team with youth players in 2011 after 3 years of piss poor management and INEVITABLY get us relegated. And you are suggesting they are blameless for the downturn in attendance?
Sky Blue Sports & Leisure 2013 accounts (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter oldskyblue58
- Start date
What planet are you on mate?
SISU fill the first team with youth players in 2011 after 3 years of piss poor management and INEVITABLY get us relegated. And you are suggesting they are blameless for the downturn in attendance?
duffer
Well-Known Member
ARVO has to increase its stake in the club in terms of equity if the investment is to be used for FFP, I believe.
Given that ARVO is clearly tied to SISU, I can't see what SISU have to gain from passing on a loss-making business to themselves. They're still taking losses, and writing off a debt to yourself, still leaves you in debt, doesn't it?
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oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
- yes in part but also a full year charge and settling out Ticketus plus interest seems to be being paid to the original investors now too
- Drop in turnover and increase in some costs cancelling the decrease in others.
the drop in turnover this year doesn't bare thinking about but there should be a drop in some costs too
Hobo
Well-Known Member
You seem to blame the 'fickle' nature of our fans for this? However the other clubs you mentioned were not being run by SISU. There has been a build up of frustration over their bizarre running of the club and their dismissive attitude to their customer base.
They are competing for the leisure money in people's pockets...people have to be entertained and get some reward/satisfaction from their outlay.
I don't think they deserve much sympathy and even less considering what has unfolded since the period these accounts cover. They have exacerbated the 'stark' drop off by taking the club away from it fan base. They have also done it before securing a suitable location to return to in the future.....madness
mark82
Super Moderator
That's the fickle nature of Coventry fans. Other better fans still turned up. See Norwich, Forest, Leicester, Sheffield Wednesday, Man City, Sheffield United, Leeds, etc , etc.
mark82
Super Moderator
Quite.....
duffer
Well-Known Member
Lets be honest.....
At this point (annual losses of £7m+ & a debt of £40m+) even a return to the Ricoh, rent-free, & with 20,000 fans at every home game.....
...We are still fucked.....
Happy Thursday.
With regard with the debt that SISU owe to themselves, there's an old saying...
If you owe someone a thousand pounds, and have nothing, and they call it in - you're f*cked.
If you owe someone a million pounds, and have nothing, and they call it in - they're f*cked.
mark82
Super Moderator
I support my club through thick and thin (apart from moving to a new town of course)
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Could be FP but it also perhaps demonstrates to a court the kind of losses incurred and the efforts the owners have put in to keep afloat....... maybe with June in mind
The issue I have is that there is a clear statement that the intention for the foreseeable future the shareholders (including ARVO) will not call the loans in. But the first thing they do is to reclassify as under 1 year. Those intentions must by nature of the going concern review extend for at least 12 months from now so the intention must be over 12 months and therefore the loans from investors. The ARVO loan details December 2014 as repayment date so that's under 1 year.
My first thought was that's the deadline then 12 months approx...... have no proof or real evidence it is ...... but was my gut reaction
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
I think ARVO are already pulling the financial strings the shares are just extra protection for them, they already effectively own all the assets and have charge over the SBS&L shares ........ and wouldn't be at all surprised if JS and SISU are deeply involved in ARVO Master fund.
To clean up the old debt to the original investors?
Yes, the club is still in deep red, but what if they actually
1) Acquired ACL 100%
2) Got promoted back to the championship
3) Got rid of the debts to the old funds (£29m)
If sisu themselves own ARVO the situation would look very good for them.
magic82ball
New Member
You trying to be funny?
You say the last bit flippantly like its a side issue. I support the team as it is representative of the city I was born in, to have that affiliation taken away is a massive deal. My love for the club is not unconditional. You may be happy to be treated with utter contempt by the owners but I think I have a bit more respect for myself to be a nodding dog at the owners disposal.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
What the fuck are you on ( in fairness to them ) its their fucking fault not the fans
Every one of the clubs you have listed have had many successful league campaigns over the last 40 years, we have had none. Norwich several promotions, Forest promotions an European Cup, several Wembley appearances, Leicester promotions galore several League Cup finals, currently top of the Championship, whilst we've had 1987 and err 1987,that's it. With over 40 years of virtually continuing failure, it is a wonder we get anybody going. Unfortunately going to Sixfield seems to be the final 'nail in the coffin' for many fans.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I'm on about the drop off whilst the club still played at the Ricoh. I don't blame anybody for not going to Northampton regardless of their reasoning.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
What on earth are you on about, if they stayed in Coventry and paid the ~£400K rent/costs ACL were prepared to accept the crowds would have been 12,000+, it is SISU alone that moved the club no one else!
Nick
Administrator
Isn't this pre Northampton?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Why weren't they 12k+ last season?
duffer
Well-Known Member
See what you're saying - but SISU themselves only use investors money, don't they? In essence then, this would mean burning one set of investors to the tune of £30m, so that the new investors get a clean slate. I'm not sure this entirely adds up, because I think the new investors might be wary of going the same way.
In truth, it's so opaque, that I wouldn't claim to see it clearly. I think it is clear that ARVO is part of SISU though - from the article below
http://joinmust.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-79099.html
Again, that to me points to SISU taking money off themselves if you simply move from Otium to ARVO as the new owners of the club and clear down the debt.
With regard to SISU buying ACL, I think it's hard to see that happening any time soon - they'd have to convince both the Council and the Higgs to sell and given that they're in a court battle at the moment with both of those parties it's hard to see that moving anytime soon. Never say never though...
Not taking money off themselves though if the original funds were not owned(!) but managed by sisu and if ARVO is owned (not just managed) by sisu.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
The way hedge funds are set-up each investor is given the level of risk attached with what they're putting money into which will set their expectations accordingly. Since Sepalla is the one who gathers these funds it depends on how she sold the investment to these people as to how keen they'll be to get their money back.
John_Silletts_Nose
Well-Known Member
I think that the following should impact the next set of accounts which will have an impact:
- There will be a saving on staff costs, stadium rental costs, players salaries, etc
- Income will be reduced by losing sponsorship, lack of adequate corporate hospitality and reduction in spectator attendance.
- Contract termination costs for players and other staff
- Costs for administration (process costs, administrator & legal costs)
- Costs for liquidation (process costs, liquidator & legal costs)
- Legal Costs for the judicial review case
Can you confirm that these costs impact the next accounts?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Not quite so though is it Godiva. If SISU manage ARVO or the funds then they take a slice of the income or fund total. So not directly taking anything but say paying £1m + in interest will achieve income for SISU to take
duffer
Well-Known Member
Fair shout, but it's hard to imagine attracting many more investors if you treated them like this.
In truth I think the money put in via SISU (via ARVO, or otherwise) is all investors' funds. Entirely accept that it might be from different groups of investors, although I'm not completely certain that's how it works. Either way, I don't think SISU like spending their own money.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Fair shout, but it's hard to imagine attracting many more investors if you treated them like this.
In truth I think the money put in via SISU (via ARVO, or otherwise) is all investors' funds. Entirely accept that it might be from different groups of investors, although I'm not completely certain that's how it works. Either way, I don't think SISU like spending their own money.
It's a fund. They persuade people to make an investment and their job is to secure a return on that investment-investors know from the outset that there is no guarantee of such a return although they will be told how risky the investment is. Really, if the investment fails there's not a lot the investor can do about it.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Can we not have the "fickle fans" crap again. People are rational beings on the whole, there's nothing different about the makeup of Coventry fans.
No success = no fans. Same at every club. If you want to grow the fanbase without success, you need to work overtime on community engagement, also something Sisu don't want to do.
And as others have said, all that happens in the business is their fault. The buck stops with them. They can't control circumstance, but they do control how they react.
No success = no fans. Same at every club. If you want to grow the fanbase without success, you need to work overtime on community engagement, also something Sisu don't want to do.
And as others have said, all that happens in the business is their fault. The buck stops with them. They can't control circumstance, but they do control how they react.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Can I ask a couple of questions please guys?
1. Don't sisu accorinding to this still owe the 590k to ACL from admin?
2. This was ages ago and why haven't they paid? Part of the deal was FL made sure ACL still got their 590k.
Pay it Otium. Why haven't they paid?
Are they waiting and can they say we will go back to Ricoh on a rental deal in the summer if you waive the 590k perhaps?
Thoughts?
1. Don't sisu accorinding to this still owe the 590k to ACL from admin?
2. This was ages ago and why haven't they paid? Part of the deal was FL made sure ACL still got their 590k.
Pay it Otium. Why haven't they paid?
Are they waiting and can they say we will go back to Ricoh on a rental deal in the summer if you waive the 590k perhaps?
Thoughts?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
is it because the administration process has yet to be completed?
Lorksalordy
New Member
Better fans ? Is this for real ?!
Anyone who sat through the last couple of seasons at The Ricoh whilst the off the field cack rumbled on in the background and sat through depressing match after match where we were not able to put a competitive team on the pitch can surely not be surprised that people got turned off and attendances dropped. Quite frankly the fact that so many stayed for so is quite surprising.
All clubs have a large percentage of fluctuating support that will increase attendances based on signings, performances, results, league position etc and to suggest that this is somehow specific to this club seems strange from a fellow fan.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that, Jerry Springer.
The facts are that Coventry fans are very fickle or fairweather but that is only a very small part of why the club is in the position its in today.
duffer
Well-Known Member
Absolutely - though of course the higher the risk, the higher the expected return. It's hard to see how they can get to a point to make any return from where they are now.
And even if there's not much they can do about getting their money back now, I'd guess investors will be picking up on this and be less likely to keep ploughing cash in.