Sky Blue Sports & Leisure 2013 accounts (14 Viewers)

[Hobo]

Can we not have the "fickle fans" crap again. People are rational beings on the whole, there's nothing different about the makeup of Coventry fans.

No success = no fans. Same at every club. If you want to grow the fanbase without success, you need to work overtime on community engagement, also something Sisu don't want to do.

And as others have said, all that happens in the business is their fault. The buck stops with them. They can't control circumstance, but they do control how they react.

If you look at the big attendances at the Ricoh it have been for big cup games or possibility of success. People like Fernado always wheel out 'fickle fans' 'glory hunters' tags.

What it actually shows is we have the fans and the potential market for a successful club. But continued relegation battles, relegation offset with one cup win and about 3 top 8 finishes since 1968 is hardly a platform for puppy eyed loyalty.

Add on the last 6 years have been the worst I have endured. As you rightly state, the owners shoulder that responsibility.

 

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[torchomatic]

I don't think "better" is the right word. However you say that match after match at the Ricoh was depressing, which is post both post and pre-SISU but isn't that what fans do? Turn up and support their team, through thick and thin, etc?

Better fans ? Is this for real ?!

Anyone who sat through the last couple of seasons at The Ricoh whilst the off the field cack rumbled on in the background and sat through depressing match after match where we were not able to put a competitive team on the pitch can surely not be surprised that people got turned off and attendances dropped. Quite frankly the fact that so many stayed for so is quite surprising.

All clubs have a large percentage of fluctuating support that will increase attendances based on signings, performances, results, league position etc and to suggest that this is somehow specific to this club seems strange from a fellow fan.

 

[bigfatronssba]

That's the fickle nature of Coventry fans. Other better fans still turned up. See Norwich, Forest, Leicester, Sheffield Wednesday, Man City, Sheffield United, Leeds, etc , etc.

Do you mean the same Leeds who's attendances are currently 45% lower than they were 10 years ago?

Or perhaps you mean the same Man City who's attendances are currently 40% higher than when they were in the third tier?

I'm assuming you must mean completely different teams as only Coventry have fickle fans don't they?

 

[skybluetony176]

I don't think "better" is the right word. However you say that match after match at the Ricoh was depressing, which is post both post and pre-SISU but isn't that what fans do? Turn up and support their team, through thick and thin, etc?

only super fans apparently, in which case we are fucked as there is only about 800 paying super fans apparently. if thats the case i would argue that 12500 in too much 2500 would be more like it as 800 is a non league team.

 

[Kingokings204]

is it because the administration process has yet to be completed?

Could be. But how long does this take and I would of thought it's law to pay it sometime as sisu can't throw a hissy fit on this one.

ACL are in talks in FL to get this paid. I think sisu are waiting for the JR or a bargaining tool to waive it if they go back to the Ricoh.

 

[duffer]

It's a fund. They persuade people to make an investment and their job is to secure a return on that investment-investors know from the outset that there is no guarantee of such a return although they will be told how risky the investment is. Really, if the investment fails there's not a lot the investor can do about it.

No there isn't, agreed. But if you're managing a fund that loses your investors' money, particularly if you lose that money by writing off their investment to your benefit, as Godiva is suggesting, then the odds are that your investors will dry up, I'd say.

Even if you're not being that cynical, as you say investors will still expect to make a return. I can't see how this plays out well for SISU in terms of attracting future investment into the club. For a risk this big you'd want a big upside - where is that at the moment?

 

[Hobo]

No there isn't, agreed. But if you're managing a fund that loses your investors' money, particularly if you lose that money by writing off their investment to your benefit, as Godiva is suggesting, then the odds are that your investors will dry up, I'd say.

Even if you're not being that cynical, as you say investors will still expect to make a return. I can't see how this plays out well for SISU in terms of attracting future investment into the club. For a risk this big you'd want a big upside - where is that at the moment?

Remember these investors will have investments spread over varying funds, with varying risks. If the other investments are performing well they may not be that concerned.

 

[Lorksalordy]

I don't think "better" is the right word. However you say that match after match at the Ricoh was depressing, which is post both post and pre-SISU but isn't that what fans do? Turn up and support their team, through thick and thin, etc?

It is what a % of each set of fans at each club do. Others, for many reasons, are more casual and will not just turn up regardless. It is the same at every club.

 

[duffer]

Remember these investors will have investments spread over varying funds, with varying risks. If the other investments are performing well they may not be that concerned.

Again accepted - though I still think that at some point most investors will review their positions, at that point the CCFC fund might be one they'd ask to be removed from. New investors are similarly unlikely to want to get involved, I'd venture.

Ultimately SISU themselves will also surely see that this isn't something that can ever make a profit. I can't believe there's a bottomless pit of money to draw on here.

 

[wingy]

In Universal language we are KAPPUT!!

 

[Captain Dart]

Is Seppala's reputation about to change from hard nosed winner to inflexible loser?

 

[SkyBlueUkeman]

 

[torchomatic]

True. But as others have pointed out many teams (similar in size to us) have maintained their fan base despite relegations.

It is what a % of each set of fans at each club do. Others, for many reasons, are more casual and will not just turn up regardless. It is the same at every club.

 

[Hobo]

True. But as others have pointed out many teams (similar in size to us) have maintained their fan base despite relegations.

Some are equally large cities with a bigger catchment area and less competition I.e Norwich and Southampton

 

[torchomatic]

Yes, "some".

Some are equally large cities with a bigger catchment area and less competition I.e Norwich and Southampton

 

[Lorksalordy]

Is it truly being suggested that there has been a club in that list that is remotely comparable in terms of lack of entertainment / excitement / general dullness and depression over the last 40 year and that it is actually due to our fans being somehow less committed and loyal

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes, "some".

No other league club has gone without a top 6 finish for over 40 years.

 

[Hobo]

Yes, "some".

The point is Torch, it isn't as simple as saying our fans are fickle. There are many considerations to consider. Continued lack of success is one. Also the fact we can put 27 to 30 thousand in the Ricoh a a whiff of success is another.

Can I make another point....over the years I have watched Coventry, average attendances have often been disappointing. But they turn out when it really matters. Not just big cup games.
I have seen many large attendances, including away away matches when they have been crunch relegation deciders.

 

[italiahorse]

Oh dear. What a sorry state we are in . It's gonna get worse lads . Virtually no assets , interest payments alone more than this seasons gate receipts. We are fucked unless SISU win the JR and manage to get the Ricoh .
If they lose I can see oblivion for us .
Useless fecking arseholes .

If they win all ACL need to do is refinance. It does not mean SISU they will get the Ricoh.
If they win it is against CCC not the Ricoh. CCC will have to get there money back from ACL.
I guess the ACL accounts will show whether they are sound enough to take a bank loan with slightly increased interest rates.
If so nothing changes in regards the Ricoh.

 

[magic82ball]

True. But as others have pointed out many teams (similar in size to us) have maintained their fan base despite relegations.

Who's to say our attendance would not increase 40% should we have promotions? Well, 40% assuming were at the Ricoh and compared to 12/13 Ricoh attendances.

 

[italiahorse]

Let's be clear 1000 paying fans turning up is the responsibility of the owners Sisu. they are responsible for the club.

They can put the blame at ACL for driving them out but that is difficult to justify when they have been offered zero rent plus costs.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

So...taking all things into account...if it looks bad this year, next years going to be worse, right?

The only place SISU are going to get any ounce of money back is from winning the JR and then either selling the Ricoh to the highest bidder or re-developing it. As much as they obviously have no regard for CCFC, I couldn't see the second option being a reality. However, I didn't think we'd relocate....

The shining light in all this is that whilst we're suffering from not watching CCFC, they're suffering financially. Every cloud and all that...

I think the fact that they're talking about calling in loans by December 2014 could be an idication that they're gonna have a 'get-out' plan depending on the outcome of the JR.

Here's hoping....

WM

 

[italiahorse]

Lets be honest.....

At this point (annual losses of £7m+ & a debt of £40m+) even a return to the Ricoh, rent-free, & with 20,000 fans at every home game.....

...We are still fucked.....

Happy Thursday.

This is heading for liquidation and start again, mark my words its a Rangers situation.

 

[mrbluesky87]

If you look at the big attendances at the Ricoh it have been for big cup games or possibility of success. People like Fernado always wheel out 'fickle fans' 'glory hunters' tags.

What it actually shows is we have the fans and the potential market for a successful club. But continued relegation battles, relegation offset with one cup win and about 3 top 8 finishes since 1968 is hardly a platform for puppy eyed loyalty.

Add on the last 6 years have been the worst I have endured. As you rightly state, the owners shoulder that responsibility.

And when fans do turn up like they did against Crewe, instead of being encouraged to come back to support Coventry for another game reignite their interest, they were rounded on by the so called regulars. I remember when the third goal went in and some fans left, the abuse they got was unwarranted, some with children, F*****G see you at the next big cup game, youve had your fill now f**k off etc etc and you wonder why we will never be successful.

If and when we return to the Ricoh, we need to put on one hell of a marketing campaign to get those fickle fans back, it can happen and it will need the regulars to help with this.

 

[Noggin]

Congratulations Fernandopartridge and Toorch who have managed to steer the conversation away from the utter and disastrous mess our accounts show us to be in to criticise our long suffering fans

 

[ecky]

Can we not have the "fickle fans" crap again. People are rational beings on the whole, there's nothing different about the makeup of Coventry fans.

No success = no fans. Same at every club. If you want to grow the fanbase without success, you need to work overtime on community engagement, also something Sisu don't want to do.

And as others have said, all that happens in the business is their fault. The buck stops with them. They can't control circumstance, but they do control how they react.

If they win all ACL need to do is refinance. It does not mean SISU they will get the Ricoh.
If they win it is against CCC not the Ricoh. CCC will have to get there money back from ACL.
I guess the ACL accounts will show whether they are sound enough to take a bank loan with slightly increased interest rates.
If so nothing changes in regards the Ricoh.

Or do a BCC and sell their asset?

 

[skybluetony176]

Is it truly being suggested that there has been a club in that list that is remotely comparable in terms of lack of entertainment / excitement / general dullness and depression over the last 40 year and that it is actually due to our fans being somehow less committed and loyal

apparently. but clearly you're just a fan (like me) "not a super fan" so you dont understand. sometimes i dont even feel worthy enough to check the scores online and heaven forbid if i ever listen to a game on the radio. the "not a super fan" alarm might go off.

 

[ecky]

Can we not have the "fickle fans" crap again. People are rational beings on the whole, there's nothing different about the makeup of Coventry fans.

No success = no fans. Same at every club. If you want to grow the fanbase without success, you need to work overtime on community engagement, also something Sisu don't want to do.

And as others have said, all that happens in the business is their fault. The buck stops with them. They can't control circumstance, but they do control how they react.

They can put the blame at ACL for driving them out but that is difficult to justify when they have been offered zero rent plus costs.

So...taking all things into account...if it looks bad this year, next years going to be worse, right?

The only place SISU are going to get any ounce of money back is from winning the JR and then either selling the Ricoh to the highest bidder or re-developing it. As much as they obviously have no regard for CCFC, I couldn't see the second option being a reality. However, I didn't think we'd relocate....

The shining light in all this is that whilst we're suffering from not watching CCFC, they're suffering financially. Every cloud and all that...

I think the fact that they're talking about calling in loans by December 2014 could be an idication that they're gonna have a 'get-out' plan depending on the outcome of the JR.

Here's hoping....

WM

This is heading for liquidation and start again, mark my words its a Rangers situation.

Who is putting into plan a new start up for CCFC should the inevitable happen?

 

[skybluetony176]

Congratulations Fernandopartridge and Toorch who have managed to steer the conversation away from the utter and disastrous mess our accounts show us to be in to criticise our long suffering fans

go on GMK. 1 page on CCFC accounts and 2 on ACL last time i looked, i thought it was a CCFC fans forum not an ACL fans forum? odd that they're more concerned about a company that no longer has anything to do with CCFC than they are about CCFC?

Both copy and pasted from OSB's original post on here only they forgot to put OSB's closing line in about £7M loss and £40+M in debt. not important i guess.

 

[ecky]

They always have to put sisu in a good light? Like hello? stop and look what they have done to our club?

 

[italiahorse]

I support my club through thick and thin (apart from moving to a new town of course)

Not the thin then ?

 

[italiahorse]

Or do a BCC and sell their asset?

BCC need the money.

The NEC will be sold for what it's worth.
Sisu want the Ricoh for less than it's worth and they know that without a club it is worth less.
That's why ACL tied the club in with a long lease and why Sisu needed to break it.

The administrator should have valued the lease at what the drop in the Ricoh value would be.
As it was he could't be bothered and ACL could therefore not accept the CVA.

If the club got the Ricoh cheap I would love it but not Sisu as will be the case.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Congratulations Fernandopartridge and Toorch who have managed to steer the conversation away from the utter and disastrous mess our accounts show us to be in to criticise our long suffering fans

Cheers mate, recognition for good work is always welcome. I have never denied the accounts are in a mess or the club is fucked (as it has been for many years). I am merely stating that our support is pretty fickle, all those objecting to it have done has come up for reasons why it is fickle.

Congrats to GaryPendrysEyes for his ridiculous Woolworth's analogy as well.

 

[Hobo]

Congratulations Fernandopartridge and Toorch who have managed to steer the conversation away from the utter and disastrous mess our accounts show us to be in to criticise our long suffering fans

They haven't though have they? Their argument over the fickleness of our fans is an over simplified view. If it makes them feel better about their own allegiance, then I am happy for them.

The state of these accounts are no surprise and about what I expected. Perhaps the last few will start to realise these are no viable platform to build a new stadium on and it won't happen.

 

[fernandopartridge]

They haven't though have they? Their argument over the fickleness of our fans is an over simplified view. If it makes them feel better about their own allegiance, then I am happy for them.

The state of these accounts are no surprise and about what I expected. Perhaps the last few will start to realise these are no viable platform to build a new stadium on and it won't happen.

Classic SBT. Did I not post a few pages back that CCFC's fans are fickle and fairweather but it plays only a small part in the club's situation today?