Sky Blue Sports & Leisure 2013 accounts (17 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Was just my understanding shmmeee. Hence the "I believe". Happy to be proven wrong. As you say may have been getting my wires crossed between the offers.

No same here mate. I'm trying to get to the bottom just like everyone else.

 

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[Kingokings204]

That was the offer at admin (not heard the no break clause thing though, source?) and was made as stated repeatedly because those are the FL rules on tenancy of a ground.

They've since offered several temporary deals that have been rejected. Not sure you can pin this one on them.

Definitely a 3 year deal offered and rejected. TF quoted he couldn't do this deal.

Why? It works for everyone you got unless a new stadium isn't happening

 

[shmmeee]

Really?

I've not done the research like I have with City, but if you give me a team that's as close to us in terms of success as possible I'll run the numbers later.

Who were the team that were in the Championship for longer than us? Was it Preston?

 

[Grendel]

So what? I don't support another league club. Presumably no one else who attended the Ricoh or HR over the years does either.

No I agree its a misleading argument as most clubs with a top 6 finish did it outside the top league. Its almost saying we'd have been better with more seasons in lower divisions. In the first season after relegation we were in the top 6 for a large part of the season.

 

[shmmeee]

Yes, absolutely agree. This is what makes us as a group fickle. Other teams haven't seen that drop in attendances.

On another note. I fully expect that should we end up in Legoland but with a successful team. We'll fill the place. Sisu or not as owners.

 

[shmmeee]

No I agree its a misleading argument as most clubs with a top 6 finish did it outside the top league. Its almost saying we'd have been better with more seasons in lower divisions. In the first season after relegation we were in the top 6 for a large part of the season.

It's about expectations though isn't it? People never actually thought we'd be relegated, so when it happened it's a far bigger shock. Also when we went down we expected to be towards the top so anything else is seen as failure.

 

[torchomatic]

Windsor is much, much farther than Northampton. That's a mad suggestion.

On another note. I fully expect that should we end up in Legoland but with a successful team. We'll fill the place. Sisu or not as owners.

 

[torchomatic]

Didn't they? Haven't we spent the majority of the last 40 seasons avoiding it?

It's about expectations though isn't it? People never actually thought we'd be relegated, so when it happened it's a far bigger shock. Also when we went down we expected to be towards the top so anything else is seen as failure.

 

[shmmeee]

Windsor is much, much farther than Northampton. That's a mad suggestion.

I always preferred Stadium of Joy or the Fishbowl myself, but this seems to have stuck.

I really like Legoland (the actual one).

 

[shmmeee]

Didn't they? Haven't we spent the majority of the last 40 seasons avoiding it?

"If the Titanic was painted Sky Blue"

 

[oldskyblue58]

Q&A With The Club.

Thanks for posting that up Robbo

My take on that article is that it is the club saying this is the questions we want you to ask so that we can make the statements we want to. Not exactly probing are they.

Final question on the loans I have for them. If they are not proper loans then why has it not all been converted to share capital? because that would immediately improve the appearance of the balance sheet and make the club look more financially sound, reduce overheads because no interest to pay, improve profitability (at least reduce losses) etc. If not loans what is stopping them doing that because apparently they are not looking to take the money out ..............:thinking about:

 

[Houdi]

We've had years of nothing, although most people now seem to judge teams who sustain themselves in the Premier League as successful (see references to Southampton) - we did that for 34 years so were successful in that respect.

I'm sure Crystal Palace fans will judge this season a success if they finish 17th, however I'm not sure their fans will be too happy with the prospect of 10/20/30 years of just avoiding relegation from the Premier League. It is not even the 34 years we spent in the top flight were interspersed with many memorable cup runs, indeed seemingly most seasons were a relegation dog fight, with early cup exits, often at the gleeful hands of lower league outfits.
Is just 1 decent league season in whatever division really that much to ask, 1 season where we just even make the play-offs.

 

[torchomatic]

Me too. Me and mini me go every summer courtesy of our clubcard vouchers.

The Fishbowl is a good one.

I really like Legoland (the actual one).

 

[Nick]

ACL made several offers to the club, with decreased rent, access to ACL's share of matchday revenues and so on-all were rejected. It almost certainly does go both ways however I think that now this is more a matter of pride for Seppalla since ACL hold the cards in terms of negotiation.

What does this mean?

It was accompanied by an emailed statement from Tim Fisher declaring that CCFC has “no option but to build a new venue” and that CCFC’s proposals were predicated on playing at the Ricoh Arena for a “run-off period of three years.”
This is totally unacceptable to ACL.

To me it reads that CCFC's proposals to ACL were based on a 3 year run off period but wasn't acceptable? I am probably wrong but a clever bod should be able to translate.

 

[shmmeee]

Me too. Me and mini me go every summer courtesy of our clubcard vouchers.

The Fishbowl is a good one.

Half price family tickets with a Happy Meal at the moment.

 

[Hobo]

Didn't ACL reject a temporary thing?

Yes but SISU are currently in. Very weak negotiating position since the move to Northampton re can we rent temporarily?

They have moved to distress the Ricoh in order to buy it on the cheap.

At the moment at least the Ricoh is on better finances than CCFC

 

[shmmeee]

What does this mean?



To me it reads that CCFC's proposals to ACL were based on a 3 year run off period but wasn't acceptable? I am probably wrong but a clever bod should be able to translate.

No it's right, but you've got to take it in context of the time.

ACL didn't think that Sisu could legally break the lease at the time. They thought they were being asked to voluntarily swap a 40 year lease for a lesser one. They were still negotiating with an organisation that as they saw it was contracted to them for the foreseeable.

The game changed once Sisu managed to wriggle out of the lease. Whatever the rights and wrongs of doing it, it meant ACL were negotiating from a starting point of having nothing.

 

[Spagbol]

There are so many reasons why our crowd has dropped, initially faded away and then dropped like a stone. SISU are central to all that. The truth is for the majority of fans is, if we were at the Ricoh the crowds would return. I don't care if we get liquidated and finish in the non~league I would be back. And although it wouldn't be a big crowd it would be a damn sight better than now. We would need to have a target of promotion etc and that would again build OUR club up. I can't see how this will be resolved I just hope we will still have a club to support.

 

[Kingokings204]

3 year deal that's all we want.

Ain't that hard is it?

3 years x 150k rent is 450k less than the 590k they still owe ACL/ccc

Mind boggles

 

[Nick]

No it's right, but you've got to take it in context of the time.

ACL didn't think that Sisu could legally break the lease at the time. They thought they were being asked to voluntarily swap a 40 year lease for a lesser one. They were still negotiating with an organisation that as they saw it was contracted to them for the foreseeable.

The game changed once Sisu managed to wriggle out of the lease. Whatever the rights and wrongs of doing it, it meant ACL were negotiating from a starting point of having nothing.

So ACL did reject it when SISU asked to play at the Ricoh while they built a new ground? Yes, they still had the lease then so I guess ACL kind of laughed it off?

What temporary offers have been made to SISU since?

 

[Hobo]

I don't think anybody is happy with it, we would all prefer to be in the Premier League. That isn't to say that people will just sack them off because we aren't playing Chelsea every week and would still go if we went right to the conference and further.

To be honest Nick, I wouldn't be happy with this situation if we were in the Premier Lge...however we would probably be more attractive to other investors.


Some will support whatever the level most won't. It's always been easier to support Man U, Liverpool Arsenal etc than Darlington, Halifax, Hartlepool, or Staylybridge United. Also the most successful teams do tend to have the most money.

It probably explains why the vast majority of people in Scotland support one of two teams, followed by a block of four others.

But for me it's how the club is structured and what it is achieving within its own means is the key, not the level it is performing at.

 

[Grendel]

3 year deal that's all we want.

Ain't that hard is it?

3 years x 150k rent is 450k less than the 590k they still owe ACL/ccc

Mind boggles

Plus matchday costs?

 

[chiefdave]

What temporary offers have been made to SISU since?

Free this season (as we have to pay Northampton for the rest of the season) and £150K the following two seasons at which point the new ground will be ready.

 

[chiefdave]

Q&A With The Club.

I wasn't sure if this was genuine or not, had to go and check on the club website! Seems we're all worrying about nothing and there's not really any debt and it's all normal business practice.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No I agree its a misleading argument as most clubs with a top 6 finish did it outside the top league. Its almost saying we'd have been better with more seasons in lower divisions. In the first season after relegation we were in the top 6 for a large part of the season.

Success helps to keep club's crowds from entering decline was my point. Yo-yo clubs have the promotion seasons where the team is at the right end of the table and this boosts crowds more than a club which is challenging for nothing every year and looking over its shoulders.

 

[skybluetony176]

I wasn't sure if this was genuine or not, had to go and check on the club website! Seems we're all worrying about nothing and there's not really any debt and it's all normal business practice.

they do seem to think we're all stupid and to be fair most of us are (myself included) when it comes to company finance but surely even they must have noticed that we have OSB to dumb it down for us. so when they go and post shit like this on the web site it just makes them look stupid.

i also noticed the CET have copy and pasted OSB's work.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

they do seem to think we're all stupid and to be fair most of us are (myself included) when it comes to company finance but surely even they must have noticed that we have OSB to dumb it down for us. so when they go and post shit like this on the web site it just makes them look stupid.

i also noticed the CET have copy and pasted OSB's work.

Wouldn't be the first time...

 

[Nick]

To be honest Nick, I wouldn't be happy with this situation if we were in the Premier Lge...however we would probably be more attractive to other investors.


Some will support whatever the level most won't. It's always been easier to support Man U, Liverpool Arsenal etc than Darlington, Halifax, Hartlepool, or Staylybridge United. Also the most successful teams do tend to have the most money.

It probably explains why the vast majority of people in Scotland support one of two teams, followed by a block of four others.

But for me it's how the club is structured and what it is achieving within its own means is the key, not the level it is performing at.

For me it is the club I went to watch from before I can remember and was bred to support. Obviously I care about the structure because that could equate to success but I wouldn't ever stop supporting I don't think.

 

[shmmeee]

So ACL did reject it when SISU asked to play at the Ricoh while they built a new ground? Yes, they still had the lease then so I guess ACL kind of laughed it off?

What temporary offers have been made to SISU since?

Yes your right ACL rejected it. But like I said that's why really anything that has gone should be left to lie, the circumstances of this mess have changed so many times. Really you only want to look at the current offers.

AFAIK the 3 year deal was temporary (free this year, £100k the next 2).

 

[Kingokings204]

Plus matchday costs?

Yes correct and a lot more money than sixfields. If a new stadium is happening then this has to be the solution.

Also I do believe that offer to be correct in that free this season and 150k next 2 and stadium fishbowl(my fav) is built? (Cough cough)

 

[Grendel]

Yes correct and a lot more money than sixfields. If a new stadium is happening then this has to be the solution.

Also I do believe that offer to be correct in that free this season and 150k next 2 and stadium fishbowl(my fav) is built? (Cough cough)

There is some uncertainty on that - the free offer was alleged to have blurred matchday costs and was no different to the original offer.

 

[Kingokings204]

There is some uncertainty on that - the free offer was alleged to have blurred matchday costs and was no different to the original offer.

Whatever they are Grendel? Can't be that much to defy not renting for 3 years. A lot more ticket sale a lot more sponsorship and commercial sales etc. Just makes no sense to move to Northampton new stadium or not. I thought a new stadium was always plan b anyway.

 

[lewys33]

Yes they didn't include matchday costs in the free rent offer.

Who would have though matchday costs would cost more at a 32,000 seater state of the art stadium over a shitty tin shed in Northampton with 1/5 of the attendance?

 

[skybluetony176]

Yes they didn't include matchday costs in the free rent offer.

Who would have though matchday costs would cost more at a 32,000 seater state of the art stadium over a shitty tin shed in Northampton with 1/5 of the attendance?

skock, horror. you'll be telling me next that a rolls royce isn't the same cost to buy and run as a hillman imp. come to your senses man

 

[Hobo]

For me it is the club I went to watch from before I can remember and was bred to support. Obviously I care about the structure because that could equate to success but I wouldn't ever stop supporting I don't think.

Depends how you define these terms; support or follow.
As very very few attend practically every game most of us are a mixture of the two. We are fans of the club, our attendance at any given time is down to all sorts of reasons and probably beyond accurate analysis.

Let's be honest the posters on here have been fans over different time scales, live all over the place, have had their own experiences as fans, have their own unique commitments away from the club....we all have our own take on various episodes in our history. We all have our own solutions to problems.

Ultimately we are all fans, non can say we are better or more worthy than another. Non of us know how our personal situations will change in the future.

My point is we have a fantastic fan base, at the moment it is under utilised by the club.