Time for Plain Speaking (16 Viewers)

[The Gentleman]

I disagree, my alternative is that we ask why CCFc can't purchase the Higgs Share of ACL and ask the Council how much they'd want for their share of ACL, so for instance:

- £6,000,000 for the Higgs Share of ACL
- £6,000,000 - £10,000,000 Council share of ACL
- Club take over the loan that ACL are repaying to CCC with an added 5% - 10% extra on each repayment annually.

Job sorted for initial outlet of £12,000,000* the Club have 100% control of ACL.

* The same amount as another 4 season at Sixfields.

The only slight problem with your plan (which seems perfectly plausible) is that Sisu/Otium do not want to pay that, otherwise why haven't they come back round the table?

 

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[Nick]

It doesn't blame everything on sisu.
Survey will be about strategy - I know what I think should happen but am interested to see what larger numbers think.

Here's a challenge:

My suggestion for how we get back to the Ricoh is - sisu pick up the phone and say 'we accept the latest rental offer' (because it's better for the team, better for the fans, and financially better than playing at NTFC), we move back to the Ricoh and then as much time as is needed can be taken to reach a long-term agreement.


If you disagree with my suggestion then I'd be really interested to hear an equally concise sentence stating your view as to how we get back to the Ricoh.

The thing with that, is if we go back there renting it gives all the cards back to ACL doesn't it and we will be back in the same situation as before? Catch 22.

 

[chiefdave]

The thing with that, is if we go back there renting it gives all the cards back to ACL doesn't it and we will be back in the same situation as before? Catch 22.

The obvious thing to do is complete the deal with Higgs for their share in ACL. We'd then have 100% of matchday revenues, 50% of all other revenues and a 50% stake in the company we have to agree the rent with.

 

[The Gentleman]

The thing with that, is if we go back there renting it gives all the cards back to ACL doesn't it and we will be back in the same situation as before? Catch 22.

At least we would be back in Coventry, losing less money and the recent appointments at ACL and Lucas seemingly more open to dealing with Sisu than people like Mutton, does this not give us the opportunity to take big strides forward and the potential to actually buy into the Ricoh? Because if the Arena is starting to make money, wouldn't it be good to be a part of that?

 

[Nick]

At least we would be back in Coventry, losing less money and the recent appointments at ACL and Lucas seemingly more open to dealing with Sisu than people like Mutton, does this not give us the opportunity to take big strides forward and the potential to actually buy into the Ricoh? Because if the Arena is starting to make money, wouldn't it be good to be a part of that?

Of course it would and in reality that would be great, but when SISU asked for a short term agreement last time it was rejected, that was because ACL held the cards (the lease). Negotiations only really started once SISU packed up and broke the lease.

 

[Godiva]

The obvious thing to do is complete the deal with Higgs for their share in ACL. We'd then have 100% of matchday revenues, 50% of all other revenues and a 50% stake in the company we have to agree the rent with.

Is that true though?
Buying Higgs shares won't give the club control over ACL, so I don't think ACL revenue can be used in FFP calculation.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

The only slight problem with your plan (which seems perfectly plausible) is that Sisu/Otium do not want to pay that, otherwise why haven't they come back round the table?

I think it has something to do with the JR which is why Sisu won't come back round the table.

 

[Monners]

Of course it would and in reality that would be great, but when SISU asked for a short term agreement last time it was rejected, that was because ACL held the cards (the lease). Negotiations only really started once SISU packed up and broke the lease.

So surely opportunity knocks then for some kind of outline discussion on a way forward to get us back to Cov.

 

[Grendel]

It doesn't blame everything on sisu.
Survey will be about strategy - I know what I think should happen but am interested to see what larger numbers think.

Here's a challenge:

My suggestion for how we get back to the Ricoh is - sisu pick up the phone and say 'we accept the latest rental offer' (because it's better for the team, better for the fans, and financially better than playing at NTFC), we move back to the Ricoh and then as much time as is needed can be taken to reach a long-term agreement.


If you disagree with my suggestion then I'd be really interested to hear an equally concise sentence stating your view as to how we get back to the Ricoh.

Sisu aren't going to pick up the phone though are they? Perhaps ACL should pick up the phone and apologise for taking 10 points off the club for no commercial gain.

 

[chiefdave]

Is that true though?
Buying Higgs shares won't give the club control over ACL, so I don't think ACL revenue can be used in FFP calculation.

FFP is a seperate arguement to getting the club back to the Ricoh and I'm sure there's a way around any issues with FFP due to the way CCFC and ACL link in the event that the club owns 50% of ACL. Of course you then have the arguement over if this is the correct thing to do, is trying to get round FFP regulations so we can pay out money we don't have really the way forward?

 

[Nick]

FFP is a seperate arguement to getting the club back to the Ricoh and I'm sure there's a way around any issues with FFP due to the way CCFC and ACL link in the event that the club owns 50% of ACL. Of course you then have the arguement over if this is the correct thing to do, is trying to get round FFP regulations so we can pay out money we don't have really the way forward?

I agree, it is like lying about your income so you can get a mortgage that you can't actually afford.

 

[sky blue john]

Sisu aren't going to pick up the phone though are they? Perhaps ACL should pick up the phone and
apologise for taking 10 points off the club for no commercial gain.

They could do ?
But why would they ?
Sisu didnt pay them rent for a year and then purposely put the club into administration to break the lease agreement so why would ACL apologise ?
I struggle to see your logic other than if you have that rare disease that affects 10% of ccfc fans " Sisu blindness " !!!

 

[covcity4life]

They could do ?
But why would they ?
Sisu didnt pay them rent for a year and then purposely put the club into administration to break the lease agreement so why would ACL apologise ?
I struggle to see your logic other than if you have that rare disease that affects 10% of ccfc fans " Sisu blindness " !!!

why should they indeed!!!!!!!

COME ON YOU ACLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

 

[Grendel]

They could do ?
But why would they ?
Sisu didnt pay them rent for a year and then purposely put the club into administration to break the lease agreement so why would ACL apologise ?
I struggle to see your logic other than if you have that rare disease that affects 10% of ccfc fans " Sisu blindness " !!!

They could apologise for breaking the club not once but twice to pay a mortgage they were incapable of paying without the club. Perhaps they should apologise to the CCFC fans for the damage none - I will excluded ACL fans like you of course.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

I agree, it is like lying about your income so you can get a mortgage that you can't actually afford.

They had the income when they got the loan, and an agreement that the income would continue. Most businesses that get a loan do so on the basis that they believe future trade will continue to be enough to pay back the loan (insert gag about a SISU exception). If the income decreases then the business may decide restructuring the loan would benefit all.

I guess you weren't actually trying to imply that ACL lied about their income???

 

[sky blue john]

why should they indeed!!!!!!!

COME ON YOU ACLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Lol obviously riddled !!!

 

[sky blue john]

They could apologise for breaking the club not once but twice to pay a mortgage they were
incapable of paying without the club. Perhaps they should apologise to the CCFC fans for the damage none - I will excluded ACL fans like you of course.

Don't worry even though you have an extreme strain of " Sisu blindness" it is not contagious !

 

[Nick]

They had the income when they got the loan, and an agreement that the income would continue. Most businesses that get a loan do so on the basis that they believe future trade will continue to be enough to pay back the loan (insert gag about a SISU exception). If the income decreases then the business may decide restructuring the loan would benefit all.

I guess you weren't actually trying to imply that ACL lied about their income???

No, if you look where I was quoting I was agreeing about the club and using things for FFP when we wouldn't have the extra money.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

No, if you look where I was quoting I was agreeing about the club and using things for FFP when we wouldn't have the extra money.

haha, of course.

 

[shmmeee]

They could apologise for breaking the club not once but twice to pay a mortgage they were incapable of paying without the club. Perhaps they should apologise to the CCFC fans for the damage none - I will excluded ACL fans like you of course.

If you steal my telly and I call the Police. I didn't get you arrested, you did.

If I refuse to pay my bills and a creditor takes me to court and I'm made bankrupt. The creditor didn't bankrupt me, I did.

If I refuse to pay the rent when I can afford it, and say I have no plans of paying it, and say if forced I will liquidate the club before paying it. And a court makes me pay and I refuse and then another court liquidates my team because of non payment. My landlord didn't liquidate my company, I did.

And finally. If the Football League agrees to my dodgy, certainly not in line with the regulations, deal to transfer the Golden Share only on the condition that I lose 10 points, and I accept that, then no-one but myself is to blame for loss of said 10 points.

But you knew that, didn't you, you little scamp? You're just spouting crap in the hope of someone paying you attention and validating your existence aren't you? You cheeky monkey.

 

[stupot07]

They could do ?
But why would they ?
Sisu didnt pay them rent for a year and then purposely put the club into administration to break the lease agreement so why would ACL apologise ?
I struggle to see your logic other than if you have that rare disease that affects 10% of ccfc fans " Sisu blindness " !!!

Aren't you forgetting that ACL were due in court 24 hours later to put us into administration?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[Jack Griffin]

Yes, fully understand that. I myself wouldn't be adverse to going and watching Sphinx.

I went this Sat, really nice little outing in the better weather, but I found it a bit miserable when it was pissing down earlier in the year. Only £5 (£3 for kids).

 

[sky blue john]

Aren't you forgetting that ACL were due in court 24
hours later to put us into administration?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Not at all !!
But maybe your forgetting TF apologising letting the club go into administration for a paltrey sum ?
Maybe you think im stupid but if Sisu can provide proof of funds to the fl for a new stadium then they could have paid up to prevent admin. That is unless they wanted ccfc in admin ?????...

 

[Godiva]

Not at all !!
But maybe your forgetting TF apologising letting the club go into administration for a paltrey sum ?
Maybe you think im stupid but if Sisu can provide proof of funds to the fl for a new stadium then they could have paid up to prevent admin. That is unless they wanted ccfc in admin ?????...

Look, it was all about breaking the lease.
Which they did - no matter who put the club in administration.
Sisu did try during rent negotiation and before entering administration to tie an opt-out clause (three years if I remember correctly), but ACL said no.

The club is not going back on a rental agreement, not long, not short.

All parties are now waiting for the JR. Certainly sisu are not interested in any talks before the JR - are ACL/CCC?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Look, it was all about breaking the lease.
Which they did - no matter who put the club in administration.
Sisu did try during rent negotiation and before entering administration to tie an opt-out clause (three years if I remember correctly), but ACL said no.

The club is not going back on a rental agreement, not long, not short.

All parties are now waiting for the JR. Certainly sisu are not interested in any talks before the JR - are ACL/CCC?

Couldn't agree more Godiva.

 

[Noggin]

If you steal my telly and I call the Police. I didn't get you arrested, you did.

If I refuse to pay my bills and a creditor takes me to court and I'm made bankrupt. The creditor didn't bankrupt me, I did.

If I refuse to pay the rent when I can afford it, and say I have no plans of paying it, and say if forced I will liquidate the club before paying it. And a court makes me pay and I refuse and then another court liquidates my team because of non payment. My landlord didn't liquidate my company, I did.

And finally. If the Football League agrees to my dodgy, certainly not in line with the regulations, deal to transfer the Golden Share only on the condition that I lose 10 points, and I accept that, then no-one but myself is to blame for loss of said 10 points.

But you knew that, didn't you, you little scamp? You're just spouting crap in the hope of someone paying you attention and validating your existence aren't you? You cheeky monkey.

Exactafrackinglutely!

 

[Kingokings204]

Everyone makes good logical points. Nothing will happen until the JR in June.

Sisu win and they have a chance or ccc win and sisu but unfortunately ccfc are screwed. (only chance is if sisu take a short rental if they lose JR)

Despite this I want the ccc to win as I believe in morals and ethics.

Still disgusted with it all and Sisu lost 7m in the last accounts but what will next year show. Guess at around and 10m? No business can last this.

Something has to give this summer imo as it has to. JR is scheduled and Sisu cant keep losing 7m last year another 10m this year. Wont happen. Something will give. (remember sisu thought they would get crowds of 7,000 circa and its around 1500-2000 so 5,000 difference. Massive and MONEY ALWAYS TALKS!!!

 

[Godiva]

Despite this I want the ccc to win as I believe in morals and ethics.

... and if it comes out during the JR that sisu and CCC actually made a joint plan to distress the YB mortgage?
What then? Would you still want CCC to win?

 

[Noggin]

... and if it comes out during the JR that sisu and CCC actually made a joint plan to distress the YB mortgage?
What then? Would you still want CCC to win?

I would, that would mean SISU and the council both hatched a morally bankrupt plan that honestly if it isn't should be illegal but the council decided not to go through with it and chose an non morally bankrupt course of action. The council would deserve serious critasism for agreeing the deal in the first place but ultimatly chose the correct course of action.

It seems ludicrous to me that you can go to court and say us (sisu) and the council agreed this deal that would distress another company (which Labovich keeps telling us is illegal) and harm the bank but they chose not to go through with it so we are sueing them.

 

[sky blue john]

Look, it was all about breaking the lease.
Which they did - no matter who put the club in administration.
Sisu did try during rent negotiation and before entering administration to tie an opt-out clause (three years if I remember correctly), but ACL said no.

The club is not going back on a rental agreement, not long, not short.

All parties are now waiting for the JR. Certainly sisu are not interested in any talks before the JR - are ACL/CCC?

I agree but I had to answer Stupots question.
If Acl, ccc have something to hide then maybe. But I haven't seen any signs of that on with the JR.
I hate to think what costs both sides have built up !!

 

[Nick]

I would, that would mean SISU and the council both hatched a morally bankrupt plan that honestly if it isn't should be illegal but the council decided not to go through with it and chose an non morally bankrupt course of action. The council would deserve serious critasism for agreeing the deal in the first place but ultimatly chose the correct course of action.

It seems ludicrous to me that you can go to court and say us (sisu) and the council agreed this deal that would distress another company (which Labovich keeps telling us is illegal) and harm the bank but they chose not to go through with it so we are sueing them.

Or the council thought they would have a better offer?

IF that is the case, they are all just as dodgy as each other.

 

[chiefdave]

... and if it comes out during the JR that sisu and CCC actually made a joint plan to distress the YB mortgage?
What then? Would you still want CCC to win?

Wasn't it Labovich that stated 2 companies working together to distress another is illegal? Would be very odd to go to court if your case was going to be based around you having broken the law!

 

[dongonzalos]

... and if it comes out during the JR that sisu and CCC actually made a joint plan to distress the YB mortgage?
What then? Would you still want CCC to win?

How can SISU have made such a plan
Then take legal action saying someone wanted to distress their business so it could bought in the cheap.

It's like a kid going to a teacher saying he was on his way with Paul to beat up John. When John suddenly hit him instead.

 

[Kingokings204]

... and if it comes out during the JR that sisu and CCC actually made a joint plan to distress the YB mortgage?
What then? Would you still want CCC to win?

Yes CCC are no saints im sure we all agree but I hate sisu and only they have taken us out of Coventry not the other way around.

 

[Godiva]

Despite this I want the ccc to win as I believe in morals and ethics.

... and if it comes out during the JR that sisu and CCC actually made a joint plan to distress the YB mortgage?
What then? Would you still want CCC to win?

Yes CCC are no saints im sure we all agree but I hate sisu and only they have taken us out of Coventry not the other way around.

So morals and ethics are not the real reasons you want CCC to win.

Well, no matter who wins - I am sure the decision will be made on factual evidence and based on the law. W
hatever you or I believe or think or feel will have no influence.