Seasons End (4 Viewers)

[Grendel]

So, in around 8 weeks time the season is over. Time to evaluate what is going to happen to the club next season. Will there be any future and if so where will the club be playing?

Despite all the chest thumping, finger wagging and moral high ground some things are a safe bet;

- sisu do not care about the losses they are incurring. Many of the rabid, extreme end of this forum claim only 700 pay anyway. If that's the case losses are catastrophic . What is certain is they will not return unless on their terms.

- a fans forum on the clubs finances will have no impact. May give some financial experts a forum to interpret accounts but we all know the accounts defy any financial logic.

- despite the endless threads on ACL and the Ricoh no one can judge long term success until at least 5 years without a tenant. They seem now to have very few concerts, history tells us any stadium outside of London will struggle to survive and indeed what is the point of a stadium without a tenant.
The absurdity will grow with every vacant season.

Anyway, where will we be next season?

My personal belief is that sisu have made a financial evaluation and decreed that potential benefits of a successful judicial review are worth maintaining the club and supporting losses. The new ground is obviously a smokescreen.

My belief is if the review goes badly they will liquidate having the defence that the review and its costs have crippled them.

If they win we will remain at Sixfields while they embark on a litigation action for damages against the council, again I see this ultimately ending unsuccessfully though I want it to succeed.

So I conclude the club is living on borrowed time. A successful JR in their favour could get a return as it could fold ACL due to heavy litigation but even this is a long shot.

Sisu aren't that successful in court so I see defeat and I see liquidation. No one wins. An empty stadium with a management company purely existing on non stadium events and the club dead and buried.

The seasons end will almost certainly mean the game is over.

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

Thought we were talking Marillion again there.

 

[skybluetony176]

Wow. I can't believe I'm saying this but that about sums it up. You did miss 2 facts though.

1) it's 701 paying customers now ;-)

2) it's all Andy Thorns fault ;-);-)

 

[hill83]

So basically you believe we are in the shit.

Breaking news

 

[wingy]

You may well be right ,although i think they can go half to all of next season,which may mean the FL will need to be very Vigorous In determining the likelyhood of a mid season failure.

On the extreme rabid front, IDK if that is me or If the cap fits ,but as seems my observations on Saturdays attendence were taken out of context .

I was not attempting to ridicule that In any way ,purely trying expose the inaccuracy of those posted ,i could 'nt help but notice as SKY evidenced It to me.

 

[Grendel]

You may well be right ,although i think they can go half to all of next season,which may mean the FL will need to be very Vigorous In determining the likelyhood of a mid season failure.

On the extreme rabid front, IDK if that is me or If the cap fits ,but as seems my observations on Saturdays attendence were taken out of context .

I was not attempting to ridicule that In any way ,purely trying expose the inaccuracy of those posted ,i could 'nt help but notice as SKY evidenced It to me.

If the review is successful we may see out next season while the claims are actioned in the courts.

The crowd point is not aimed at you as this is a comment made by many. I disagree but ultimately the debate is a sideshow as is ladies matches, why and when, forums of any description. Nothing will make any difference to the end game that will be played out.

I do think though the shocking reality of sisu are defeated is something many on here have never seriously considered.

 

[wingy]

If the review is successful we may see out next season while the claims are actioned in the courts.

The crowd point is not aimed at you as this is a comment made by many. I disagree but ultimately the debate is a sideshow as is ladies matches, why and when, forums of any description. Nothing will make any difference to the end game that will be played out.

I do think though the shocking reality of sisu are defeated is something many on here have never seriously considered.

Very true.

 

[mrtrench]

Apart from you hoping that SISU wins a litigation against the council I would agree with all of that. I sincerely hope that they do give in once their current attempt to litigate fails. This clears the ground for someone else to give it a shot without the Richardson debt legacy.

 

[Hobo]

So, in around 8 weeks time the season is over. Time to evaluate what is going to happen to the club next season. Will there be any future and if so where will the club be playing?

Despite all the chest thumping, finger wagging and moral high ground some things are a safe bet;

- sisu do not care about the losses they are incurring. Many of the rabid, extreme end of this forum claim only 700 pay anyway. If that's the case losses are catastrophic . What is certain is they will not return unless on their terms.

- a fans forum on the clubs finances will have no impact. May give some financial experts a forum to interpret accounts but we all know the accounts defy any financial logic.

- despite the endless threads on ACL and the Ricoh no one can judge long term success until at least 5 years without a tenant. They seem now to have very few concerts, history tells us any stadium outside of London will struggle to survive and indeed what is the point of a stadium without a tenant.
The absurdity will grow with every vacant season.

Anyway, where will we be next season?

My personal belief is that sisu have made a financial evaluation and decreed that potential benefits of a successful judicial review are worth maintaining the club and supporting losses. The new ground is obviously a smokescreen.

My belief is if the review goes badly they will liquidate having the defence that the review and its costs have crippled them.

If they win we will remain at Sixfields while they embark on a litigation action for damages against the council, again I see this ultimately ending unsuccessfully though I want it to succeed.

So I conclude the club is living on borrowed time. A successful JR in their favour could get a return as it could fold ACL due to heavy litigation but even this is a long shot.

Sisu aren't that successful in court so I see defeat and I see liquidation. No one wins. An empty stadium with a management company purely existing on non stadium events and the club dead and buried.

The seasons end will almost certainly mean the game is over.

My thinking too Grendel.

 

[Grendel]

Apart from you hoping that SISU wins a litigation against the council I would agree with all of that. I sincerely hope that they do give in once their current attempt to litigate fails. This clears the ground for someone else to give it a shot without the Richardson debt legacy.

Liquidation could seriously mean a sub conference team however. The protestations that this will be some kind of utopia reminds me of a builder that made in big and holidays in the Maldives. Then one summer he wants to go back to his roots and takes the children to his seaside haunt of Skegness. He doesn't return.

 

[Lorksalordy]

So, essentially the owners are relying on litigation to get them out of a hole whilst lying to their fan base about their long term intent for the club's location. Whilst this goes on they accept the collateral damage this has on the teams ability to compete, the reputational damage and the loss of current / potential customer goodwil. And the best case scenario is they win ????

 

[hill83]

So, essentially the owners are relying on litigation to get them out of a hole whilst lying to their fan base about their long term intent for the club's location. Whilst this goes on they accept the collateral damage this has on the teams ability to compete, the reputational damage and the loss of current / potential customer goodwil. And the best case scenario is they win ????

Pretty much.

Shit situation isn't it.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Liquidation could seriously mean a sub conference team however. The protestations that this will be some kind of utopia reminds me of a builder that made in big and holidays in the Maldives. Then one summer he wants to go back to his roots and takes the children to his seaside haunt of Skegness. He doesn't return.

If done properly, I could handle such a beast.

My big fear would be the failures of the past get involved, however... and also that we're so welded to the Ricoh because of all this we choose to play there regardless of if it's the best option for such a level or not, so a 'new' club is running uphill from the start too.

In short, a clean slate may well not be a clean slate.

 

[mrtrench]

Liquidation could seriously mean a sub conference team however. The protestations that this will be some kind of utopia reminds me of a builder that made in big and holidays in the Maldives. Then one summer he wants to go back to his roots and takes the children to his seaside haunt of Skegness. He doesn't return.

Not a Utopia, but it's coming anyway. Let it come soon so we can rebuild. I don't understand your parable; where does the foolish virgin come in?

 

[mrtrench]

So, essentially the owners are relying on litigation to get them out of a hole whilst lying to their fan base about their long term intent for the club's location. Whilst this goes on they accept the collateral damage this has on the teams ability to compete, the reputational damage and the loss of current / potential customer goodwil. And the best case scenario is they win ????

That's exactly my opinion of the situation, although for me the best outcome is that they lose.

 

[Lorksalordy]

Pretty much.

Shit situation isn't it.

Monumentally so. I think it would be Hobson's Choice for a lot of people (me included) if the tactics did succeed. Would everyone just trot merrily back dothing their caps and pretend none of it had happened ?

 

[Rusty Trombone]

A reason to carry on requesting ML's offer of a finance forum is that it will force them to answer many things that they have been vague about. This would also help prove, or not, that there have been many lies told.

Ultimately the forum would not make any difference to the outcome of the whole SISU farce.

Agree with pretty much everything else Mr G, so with all that in mind, do you still think they deserve to receive any more money from you?

 

[Grendel]

A reason to carry on requesting ML's offer of a finance forum is that it will force them to answer many things that they have been vague about. This would also help prove, or not, that there have been many lies told.

Ultimately the forum would not make any difference to the outcome of the whole SISU farce.

Agree with pretty much everything else Mr G, so with all that in mind, do you still think they deserve to receive any more money from you?

When I go and support the team I have never ever thought do the owners deserve my money. If I thought that I doubt if I would have ever gone throug the turnstile.

 

[hill83]

Monumentally so. I think it would be Hobson's Choice for a lot of people (me included) if the tactics did succeed. Would everyone just trot merrily back dothing their caps and pretend none of it had happened ?

I wouldn't be overly happy about it, but I'd be back. I'm sure a lot of people would be. I don't wear a cap though.

 

[ccfc92]

So to summarise G, there is not a huge hope for CCFC as it is. An AFC club is on the cards?

Wish there was at least one positive to hope for

Despite all the arguments on here, we are all CCFC fans, and we are all being shit on from all parties, I'd say we can all agree to that and that it will be us who suffer

 

[Rusty Trombone]

When I go and support the team I have never ever thought do the owners deserve my money. If I thought that I doubt if I would have ever gone throug the turnstile.

You posted the other day about various dubious and scurrilous owners of clubs, I was assuming this meant you wouldn't help fund them. If you would fair enough, but if not, you must be drawing a moral line somewhere.

Not trying to cause a row, just trying to understand your position.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Most of us just want one thing our club back.

I for one don't care what division we are in or who owns us, as long a I can watch my Home town team play in their Home town.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

So, in around 8 weeks time the season is over. Time to evaluate what is going to happen to the club next season. Will there be any future and if so where will the club be playing?

Despite all the chest thumping, finger wagging and moral high ground some things are a safe bet;

- sisu do not care about the losses they are incurring. Many of the rabid, extreme end of this forum claim only 700 pay anyway. If that's the case losses are catastrophic . What is certain is they will not return unless on their terms.

- a fans forum on the clubs finances will have no impact. May give some financial experts a forum to interpret accounts but we all know the accounts defy any financial logic.

- despite the endless threads on ACL and the Ricoh no one can judge long term success until at least 5 years without a tenant. They seem now to have very few concerts, history tells us any stadium outside of London will struggle to survive and indeed what is the point of a stadium without a tenant.
The absurdity will grow with every vacant season.

Anyway, where will we be next season?

My personal belief is that sisu have made a financial evaluation and decreed that potential benefits of a successful judicial review are worth maintaining the club and supporting losses. The new ground is obviously a smokescreen.

My belief is if the review goes badly they will liquidate having the defence that the review and its costs have crippled them.

If they win we will remain at Sixfields while they embark on a litigation action for damages against the council, again I see this ultimately ending unsuccessfully though I want it to succeed.

So I conclude the club is living on borrowed time. A successful JR in their favour could get a return as it could fold ACL due to heavy litigation but even this is a long shot.

Sisu aren't that successful in court so I see defeat and I see liquidation. No one wins. An empty stadium with a management company purely existing on non stadium events and the club dead and buried.

The seasons end will almost certainly mean the game is over.

So after months of ridiculing others who expressed these views, it now sounds like the penny's finally dropped. Congratulations.

Tell us something we don't already know.

 

[ccfc92]

Most of us just want one thing our club back.

I for one don't care what division we are in or who owns us, as long a I can watch my Home town team play in their Home town.

amen to that. hopefully it's the original CCFC too. not a phoenix/ AFC club

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Most of us just want one thing our club back.

I for one don't care what division we are in or who owns us, as long a I can watch my Home town team play in their Home town.

Prior to the move to Northampton I would have agreed, but Fisher et al have come out with so much rubbish since, that I very much doubt I'll be so unconcerned about who our owners are in the future.

 

[spider_ricoh]

Mostly agree with Grendel here... however we have been through liquidation once and survived so i have every confidence we can do so again.

Personally I hope the JR fails as it will most likely mean new owners and fresh start with the prospect of a new owner renewing relations with ACL.

If the JR succeeds yes they will go for damages which they may naive in exchange for Ricoh freehold - maybe a tough deal for the council to turn down with pressure on their budget and the need to maintain vital services. I hope this doesn't happen as it will mark the end of my time as a Coventry fan.

 

[ccfc92]

Mostly agree with Grendel here... however we have been through liquidation once and survived so i have every confidence we can do so again.

Personally I hope the JR fails as it will most likely mean new owners and fresh start with the prospect of a new owner renewing relations with ACL.

If the JR succeeds yes they will go for damages which they may naive in exchange for Ricoh freehold - maybe a tough deal for the council to turn down with pressure on their budget and the need to maintain vital services. I hope this doesn't happen as it will mark the end of my time as a Coventry fan.

By fresh start, do you mean a completely new club? Surely a JR loss results in SISU pulling the plug?

 

[Grendel]

So after months of ridiculing others who expressed these views, it now sounds like the penny's finally dropped. Congratulations.

Tell us something we don't already know.

You have never expressed the view you hope they win the JR.

 

[spider_ricoh]

By fresh start, do you mean a completely new club? Surely a JR loss results in SISU pulling the plug?

No, there's no reason to think SISU would liquidate us - I expect other owners would come in and be given the golden share, just as happened with Otium (real name SISU). Better to get something by selling rather than losing the lot by liquidating.

 

[ccfc92]

No, there's no reason to think SISU would liquidate us - I expect other owners would come in and be given the golden share, just as happened with Otium (real name SISU). Better to get something by selling rather than losing the lot by liquidating.

without going into it too much, surely no one will pay SISUs asking price?

plus with "Otium", SISU had split the club in two without anyone knowing, so in theory, CCFC have never been liquidated/ sold surely?

 

[Grendel]

You posted the other day about various dubious and scurrilous owners of clubs, I was assuming this meant you wouldn't help fund them. If you would fair enough, but if not, you must be drawing a moral line somewhere.

Not trying to cause a row, just trying to understand your position.

I was comparing seppella to the revolting Owen Oysten. My main point was hypocrisy. Face it if seppella bankrupted every other business she had, had served time for manslaughter if she was guiding the club back to the premiership shed get plenty of support on here.

 

[spider_ricoh]

I was comparing seppella to the revolting Owen Oysten. My main point was hypocrisy. Face it if seppella bankrupted every other business she had, had served time for manslaughter if she was guiding the club back to the premiership shed get plenty of support on here.

Not sure I've ever read you making this much sense before! Are you sure you've not had your account hacked by someone sensible?

The sad thing is that whilst we can all see this going one of several ways, there's nothing any one of us can do about it....

 

[Rusty Trombone]

I was comparing seppella to the revolting Owen Oysten. My main point was hypocrisy. Face it if seppella bankrupted every other business she had, had served time for manslaughter if she was guiding the club back to the premiership shed get plenty of support on here.

Indeed she would, maybe even a statue. I suppose then in some cases you would consider the activity of an owner, but I accept that people make their own minds up when and where they draw the line.

 

[Gary.j]

Thought we were talking Marillion again there.

Aren't we?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FYxzOIojerA

 

[Jack Griffin]

No, there's no reason to think SISU would liquidate us - I expect other owners would come in and be given the golden share, just as happened with Otium (real name SISU). Better to get something by selling rather than losing the lot by liquidating.

Like Geoffrey did, he sold to SISU for nothing but a promise of £6M if they got to the Prem inside a few years. Ultimately, he got zilch out of that deal.