Higgs vs CCFC Court Row (6 Viewers)

[dongonzalos]

I should say so.

So, in the last day or so, we've learned that Seppala threatened liquidation in 2012 unless SISU got the Higgs share. They then entered into negotiations during which they pulled a series of values for that share seemingly from a tombola barrel, culminating in a zero value. Didn't complete the deal on time; and didn't quite manage Due Diligence either. All this at a time when a rent strike sits as backdrop, for which they're taken to High Court.

Then, complain that some time later, a third party - in this shape CCC step in any refinance without telling them.

Is that really it?!?!?!?

They were prepared to over pay 2 million for something worth nothing, in order to make a charitable donation with their investors money.

 

---

[tisza]

With only one witness are SISU taking this seriously?

 

[Nick]

That 2 million "donation" has made them sound a bit silly, maybe the judge can force them to make a bit of a donation when they pay the £29k.

 

[stupot07]

C'mon seriously, does anyone here think that a decision like a rent strike won't have been approved by SISU?

They're trying to pretend that they're funding the club and didn't agree to the rent strike, that's laughable.

Are you accusing her of perjury?


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[chiefdave]

With only one witness are SISU taking this seriously?

If you were Joy would you be confident putting Fisher or Labovich up there?

 

[Godiva]

From the 2013 Accounts The funds that SISU control in the 12 months to 31/05/13 (the period that covers this) increased by £312.00 in total. ARVO apparently entirely separate to SISU and its investors invested £5.4m by way of loans. Both the Funds and ARVO started accruing interest on their loans.

In terms of SISU then there wasn't exactly a lot being invested was there £312 (No K or m required) it seems.

I assume as independent lenders ARVO made their own assessment and took suitable security ........

SISU continued to fund the Club ???

We're back to the very interesting question:
What is the relation between sisu and arvo?
Does sisu (or JS) have any interest in arvo?

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

So, in the last day or so, we've learned that Seppala threatened liquidation in 2012 unless SISU got the Higgs share. They then entered into negotiations during which they pulled a series of values for that share seemingly from a tombola barrel, culminating in a zero value. Didn't complete the deal on time; and didn't quite manage Due Diligence either. All this at a time when a rent strike sits as backdrop, for which they're taken to High Court.

Then, complain that some time later, a third party - in this shape CCC step in any refinance without telling them.

Is that really it?!?!?!?

Nicely summarised MMM.

 

[Sub]

If you were Joy would you be confident putting Fisher or Labovich up there?

God point well made

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Even in the highly, highly unlikely case that Fisher initiated a rent strike without SISU's knowledge, said strike went on for a whole year with no intervention. Are SISU really trying to say that they had no idea this was going on throughout that time, and filed the ARVO debenture out of pure coincidence?

 

[Sub]

Simon Gilbert‏@TheSimonGilbert32 secsSisu QC "it's clear Sisu did not withdraw from negotiations" Judge interrupts "I'm not so sure about that" brief discussion and QC continues

 

[chiefdave]

Are you accusing her of perjury?

If you were SISU and one of your employees, without your authorisation or knowledge, had taken such drastic action causing all sorts of knock on issues wouldn't you dismiss them? Fisher is still her so you can only assume Sepalla is happy with his work.

 

[martcov]

I should say so.

So, in the last day or so, we've learned that Seppala threatened liquidation in 2012 unless SISU got the Higgs share. They then entered into negotiations during which they pulled a series of values for that share seemingly from a tombola barrel, culminating in a zero value. Didn't complete the deal on time; and didn't quite manage Due Diligence either. All this at a time when a rent strike sits as backdrop, for which they're taken to High Court.

Then, complain that some time later, a third party - in this shape CCC - step in to refinance without telling them. So, that's bad manners; and we're all as bad as each other?!?

Is that really it?!?!?!?

No. PWKH made a point of stressing under oath, that he "placed the balloon" under the wipers and did not therefore did not attach it.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Can Deering's ..... ahem... 'declared wisdom' here be used at Judicial Review? If so, I'm lumping on with Bet365 it won't get past the opening day.....

 

[spider_ricoh]

Simon Gilbert‏@TheSimonGilbert18sDeering believes Sisu were lead up the garden path while the council / charity did a deal for the bank debt.

If true, can't say I blame the ACL side as otherwise SISU had already threatened to bankrupt the club

 

[Nick]

No. PWKH made a point of stressing under oath, that he "placed the balloon" under the wipers and did not therefore did not attach it.

That was genius.

 

[Sub]

Simon Gilbert‏@TheSimonGilbert32 secsSisu QC "it's clear Sisu did not withdraw from negotiations" Judge interrupts "I'm not so sure about that" brief discussion and QC continues

 

[stupot07]

Even in the highly, highly unlikely case that Fisher initiated a rent strike without SISU's knowledge, said strike went on for a whole year with no intervention. Are SISU really trying to say that they had no idea this was going on throughout that time, and filed the ARVO debenture out of pure coincidence?

That's not what she said, she said that it was a club decision and not something that sisu had approved.


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[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Simon Gilbert‏@TheSimonGilbert32 secsSisu QC "it's clear Sisu did not withdraw from negotiations" Judge interrupts "I'm not so sure about that" brief discussion and QC continues

Oh Lord...... I hope Fisher's 'better people in court' isn't a permanent tattoo....

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

No. PWKH made a point of stressing under oath, that he "placed the balloon" under the wipers and did not therefore did not attach it.

Good point; well made. And now I know why 'we're' playing in Northampton, whilst the My Little Pony Stadium is being built on the Island of Fernando

 

[martcov]

That 2 million "donation" has made them sound a bit silly, maybe the judge can force them to make a bit of a donation when they pay the £29k.

"a bit silly". I think it makes them look like cheats just trying to wriggle out of something. The longer this goes on, the worse they look. As the judge said "but you're not a charity are you?". In other words " bullshit!".

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Simon Gilbert‏@TheSimonGilbert32 secsSisu QC "it's clear Sisu did not withdraw from negotiations" Judge interrupts "I'm not so sure about that" brief discussion and QC continues

That judge is so nasty to them, and they were gonna give £m's to a charity 'n all....
'Deering in the headlights'?????

 

[stupot07]

If you were SISU and one of your employees, without your authorisation or knowledge, had taken such drastic action causing all sorts of knock on issues wouldn't you dismiss them? Fisher is still her so you can only assume Sepalla is happy with his work.

But again that's semantics - fisher is employed by the club not by sisu. And also there is a difference between joy saying ok, and sisu formally agreeing to the strategy through management board approval.

A bit like the accusations that ccc blocked the take over, but it was never formally rejected by Councillors.

I'm not making excuses, but I think you have to be careful of accusing people of lying under oath.


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[sw88]

Sorry if I duplicate posts (which I probably will do) but two tweets from today are of interest (they're all very insightful but these two caught my eye)

'@TheSimonGilbert: Deering says Sisu never authorised the non-payment of rent. That was football club decision. Club paid ACL £10k per match after rent ceased'

So what were SISU (now Otium) if they weren't 'the football club'?

And

'@TheSimonGilbert: Sisu QC "it's clear Sisu did not withdraw from negotiations" Judge interrupts "I'm not so sure about that" brief discussion and QC continues'

You go judge

 

[spider_ricoh]

Even in the highly, highly unlikely case that Fisher initiated a rent strike without SISU's knowledge, said strike went on for a whole year with no intervention. Are SISU really trying to say that they had no idea this was going on throughout that time, and filed the ARVO debenture out of pure coincidence?

I agree it was Ti's strategy - but he must have had Joy's backing.

 

[spider_ricoh]

With only one witness are SISU taking this seriously?

Whose to say they won't roll out Timmy as their prime witness?

 

[dongonzalos]

If you were Joy would you be confident putting Fisher or Labovich up there?

Fisher unfortunately yes
Labovich has strategy but cocks up the delivery

 

[chiefdave]

That's not what she said, she said that it was a club decision and not something that sisu had approved.

How can you come to the conclusion they didn't approve? If you're accepting they knew about it then didn't act to reverse Fishers actions they are implicitly approving them.

If they didn't approve Joy should have been straight on the phone, said it was all a mistake and get the rent paid ASAP.

 

[dongonzalos]

Sorry if I duplicate posts (which I probably will do) but two tweets from today are of interest (they're all very insightful but these two caught my eye)

'@TheSimonGilbert: Deering says Sisu never authorised the non-payment of rent. That was football club decision. Club paid ACL £10k per match after rent ceased'

So what were SISU (now Otium) if they weren't 'the football club'?

And

'@TheSimonGilbert: Sisu QC "it's clear Sisu did not withdraw from negotiations" Judge interrupts "I'm not so sure about that" brief discussion and QC continues'

You go judge

It seems every time SISU comes up against a judge they become unstuck

 

[No future with SISU]

I dont side with sisu I side with ccfc which is why I still watch my team play. I dont side with acl or cc either. Which is why I dont care what thd outcome is as long as we go back. If that means sisu get the Ricoh on the cheap then fine.

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Then what, will they invest in the team. The answer to that is no as they will make money out of the ricoh, so the future will be league 1/2 and maybe in a glory year we will go up to division 2 and that will be as high as we will go with SISU in charge with the Ricoh. Is that the future you want?

 

[duffer]

We're back to the very interesting question:
What is the relation between sisu and arvo?
Does sisu (or JS) have any interest in arvo?

Hi Godiva, this is an easy one. ARVO are a SISU company. They're described in various places as a SISU-subsiduary company based in the Caymans. (And therefore handily out of the way of banking regulations covering things like money laundering etc.)

http://www.coventrycity-mad.co.uk/n...ministrator_or_adjournment_788512/index.shtml

 

[Grendel]

How can you come to the conclusion they didn't approve? If you're accepting they knew about it then didn't act to reverse Fishers actions they are implicitly approving them.

If they didn't approve Joy should have been straight on the phone, said it was all a mistake and get the rent paid ASAP.

So you think the Tata Group head would have to know and approve every decision Tetley tea make? Really?

 

[dongonzalos]

Someone has just flew in and disrupted proceedings............

 

[ccfcway]

Simon Gilbert‏@TheSimonGilbert32 secsSisu QC "it's clear Sisu did not withdraw from negotiations" Judge interrupts "I'm not so sure about that" brief discussion and QC continues

FINALLY

Someone standing up to SISU.

Can we remove the suggested status of Joy outside the Ricoh and put up one of this judge

 

[chiefdave]

So you think the Tata Group head would have to know and approve every decision Tetley tea make? Really?

What has that got to do with anything? Fisher has stated on several occasions Sepalla is involved on a day to day basis yet we're supposed to belive noone ever thought to mention we're going to stop paying the rent?

 

[AJB1983]

But again that's semantics - fisher is employed by the club not by sisu. And also there is a difference between joy saying ok, and sisu formally agreeing to the strategy through management board approval.

A bit like the accusations that ccc blocked the take over, but it was never formally rejected by Councillors.

I'm not making excuses, but I think you have to be careful of accusing people of lying under oath.


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Hang on, fisher is chief exec of the club...there's no-one above him in the structure to employ him other than the owner - sisu. So he is employed by them to run the football club