Higgs vs CCFC Court Row (62 Viewers)

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martcov

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
How can you come to the conclusion they didn't approve? If you're accepting they knew about it then didn't act to reverse Fishers actions they are implicitly approving them.

If they didn't approve Joy should have been straight on the phone, said it was all a mistake and get the rent paid ASAP.
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Legally it is possible. The same as ML not hearing any last minute ACL offer as he was wearing a different hat on that day. You can claim that it wasn't your decision and you didn't approve of it. All legal, but not necessarily the case in reality. More like "standard business practice".
 
ccfcway

ccfcway

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
So you think the Tata Group head would have to know and approve every decision Tetley tea make? Really?
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so it was Coventry City Football Club took the decision not to pay rent and move away from Coventry and its fans, not its owners ? :facepalm:
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
How can you come to the conclusion they didn't approve? If you're accepting they knew about it then didn't act to reverse Fishers actions they are implicitly approving them.

If they didn't approve Joy should have been straight on the phone, said it was all a mistake and get the rent paid ASAP.
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You're twisting my words, Brighton said how did they do it for so long without their knowledge and without them realising.

I said that wasn't what she said. She said that sisu hadn't approved the decision. That's two different things.

I have also not said whether I believe that or not, I just put out a plausible explanation. Did fisher formally go to sisu's management board for formal approval of the strategy? Or did he speak to Joy and said this is what I want to do? She can be wrong and not have lied under oaf.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
So you think the Tata Group head would have to know and approve every decision Tetley tea make? Really?
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If they rented Bombay house and decided to stop paying the rent, a decision that would eventually lead to them moving out of Mumbai. I think he would be appraised of the decision yes.
 
Mary_Mungo_Midge

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
So you think the Tata Group head would have to know and approve every decision Tetley tea make? Really?
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Have you ever heard the CEO of Tetley claim he's in daily contact with the head of TATA, and that he's very hands on? If not, stop your silly, worthless comparisons to try and cover the sematic point you're trying too hard to unsuccessfully make
 
spider_ricoh

spider_ricoh

New Member
duffer said:
Hi Godiva, this is an easy one. ARVO are a SISU company. They're described in various places as a SISU-subsiduary company based in the Caymans. (And therefore handily out of the way of banking regulations covering things like money laundering etc.)

http://www.coventrycity-mad.co.uk/n...ministrator_or_adjournment_788512/index.shtml
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ARVO is an "investment vehicle" to a "company" that SISU use to hold their investor's funds and which they use to fund investments e.g. CCFC.

What is interesting is that Tim Fisher joined as CEO at around the same time ARVO master fund was given the CCFC debenture. This was shortly after SISU had stated they were looking for other investors to "share the burden" of running the club on a loss-making basis.

Is it beyond possibility that Tim has brought in his own investors (different to the ones represented by SISU) whose funds are managed by "ARVO" - so essentially buying into CCFC as SISU's co-investor, and agreeing that he will run the club personally with their input (or non-SISU investor channel money through ARVO and had TF appointed as CEO). If true, its hardly a surprise that Onye was forced out.

It would also explain why Joy paid the rent for years and then a new person comes along and says "I'm not paying that , we need a new deal" - rather than manage CCFC as employees like Deluded, Onye and Clouting did, he brought his own interests to the table and forced a change of direction. If true, he would be more of a Ranson-type figure rather than an employee like Deluded.
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
AJB1983 said:
Hang on, fisher is chief exec of the club...there's no-one above him in the structure to employ him other than the owner - sisu. So he is employed by them to run the football club
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Semantics - recruited by and employed by are 2 different things


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
dongonzalos said:
When the judge decides in Higgs' favour is he accusing her of perjury?
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What a ridiculous comment, no he's weighing up all of the evidence out forward and all statements. And this is about whether sisu agreed to and should pay the £29k, nothing to do with the rent strike.

And my personal view is, if they agreed to pay the £29k then they should pay it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
 
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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
So you think the Tata Group head would have to know and approve every decision Tetley tea make? Really?
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I won't give you a Nürnberg trials analogy here, but TATA Group is a bit bigger than a small - in terms of staff numbers - hedge fund in London. Joy had said she would take a more "hands-on" role. Her company had poured piles of Investors money into a loss making soccer team and she was trying to turn it around through the involvement of Tim. It is not stretching the imagination, that she would ask for progress reports and then give her opinion on major decisions. If it was a blatant mistake in her eyes she would surely say so.
 
ccfcway

ccfcway

Well-Known Member
so with the under oath confirmation by SISU that it was the club who decided to withhold the rent, we might need to change from...

:blue:

to

Untitled.png
 
Mary_Mungo_Midge

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
It's hilarious that the very people who yesterday were decrying 'poor communication' and claiming subterfuge because someone from CCC didn't tell SISU about the refinancing; now are claiming that Joy Seppala - who Fisher claims is very 'hands on' and in 'daily contact' with him knew nothing of, or sanctioned the rent strike!

Simply brilliant!!! :claping hands:
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Have you ever heard the CEO of Tetley claim he's in daily contact with the head of TATA, and that he's very hands on? If not, stop your silly, worthless comparisons to try and cover the sematic point you're trying too hard to unsuccessfully make
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So you accept the notion is plausible. Thanks.
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Sorry but ARVO is not a subsidiary of SISU Capital. It is not listed in the group structure disclosed in the SISU Capital accounts filed at Companies House.

Think you will find there is a connection via Seppala as she signed some of the JR documents on behalf of ARVO. The nature of her exact role in ARVO is unclear
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
stupot07 said:
You're twisting my words, Brighton said how did they do it for so long without their knowledge and without them realising.

I said that wasn't what she said. She said that sisu hadn't approved the decision. That's two different things.

I have also not said whether I believe that or not, I just put out a plausible explanation. Did fisher formally go to sisu's management board for formal approval of the strategy? Or did he speak to Joy and said this is what I want to do? She can be wrong and not have lied under oaf.
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I'm kind of amazed that anyone would think that SISU didn't support the idea of the rent strike. Seppala in here own words...

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-owner-joy-6096912

"We didn’t want to distress ACL, but the club couldn’t afford to pay the rent"

That, to me, would seem to indicate clearly that the head of SISU was well aware of the rent issue, and supported the non-payment.
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
Hi Godiva, this is an easy one. ARVO are a SISU company. They're described in various places as a SISU-subsiduary company based in the Caymans. (And therefore handily out of the way of banking regulations covering things like money laundering etc.)

http://www.coventrycity-mad.co.uk/n...ministrator_or_adjournment_788512/index.shtml
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Thanks, I thought as much.
This means that all the debt to the original funds are placed in SBS&L while sisu themselves are involved in Otium.
What are the chances that SBS&L will be liquidated before the club does?
 
A

AJB1983

Well-Known Member
spider_ricoh said:
ARVO is an "investment vehicle" to a "company" that SISU use to hold their investor's funds and which they use to fund investments e.g. CCFC.

What is interesting is that Tim Fisher joined as CEO at around the same time ARVO master fund was given the CCFC debenture. This was shortly after SISU had stated they were looking for other investors to "share the burden" of running the club on a loss-making basis.

Is it beyond possibility that Tim has brought in his own investors (different to the ones represented by SISU) whose funds are managed by "ARVO" - so essentially buying into CCFC as SISU's co-investor, and agreeing that he will run the club personally with their input (or non-SISU investor channel money through ARVO and had TF appointed as CEO). If true, its hardly a surprise that Onye was forced out.

It would also explain why Joy paid the rent for years and then a new person comes along and says "I'm not paying that , we need a new deal" - rather than manage CCFC as employees like Deluded, Onye and Clouting did, he brought his own interests to the table and forced a change of direction. If true, he would be more of a Ranson-type figure rather than an employee like Deluded.
Click to expand...

Very Interesting point/summary, especially with Otium 'taking over' etc.
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
I'm kind of amazed that anyone would think that SISU didn't support the idea of the rent strike. Seppala in here own words...

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-owner-joy-6096912

"We didn’t want to distress ACL, but the club couldn’t afford to pay the rent"

That, to me, would seem to indicate clearly that the head of SISU was well aware of the rent issue, and supported the non-payment.
Click to expand...

But again that's different to fisher going to sisu's management board and requesting approval.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
 
sw88

sw88

Chief Commentator!
oldskyblue58 said:
Sorry but ARVO is not a subsidiary of SISU Capital. It is not listed in the group structure disclosed in the SISU Capital accounts filed at Companies House.

Think you will find there is a connection via Seppala as she signed some of the JR documents on behalf of ARVO. The nature of her exact role in ARVO is unclear
Click to expand...

Maybe another reason why it should be made a condition that she, as probably the main player in all of this, should be called up to be questioned at the JR (ideally it would have been this one as it appears lots of questions have gone unanswered due to her absense)
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
Sorry but ARVO is not a subsidiary of SISU Capital. It is not listed in the group structure disclosed in the SISU Capital accounts filed at Companies House.

Think you will find there is a connection via Seppala as she signed some of the JR documents on behalf of ARVO. The nature of her exact role in ARVO is unclear
Click to expand...

It doesn't need to be a subsidiary or within the group. It can still be owned/part owned by Seppala.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
stupot07 said:
But again that's different to fisher going to sisu's management board and requesting approval.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
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Why does she say we instead of "Tim"? Implies consent.
 
Mary_Mungo_Midge

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
stupot07 said:
But again that's different to fisher going to sisu's management board and requesting approval
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Let's stop being silly. Think through this simple question. Do you think Fisher was empowered, or able, to enter the rent strike - and risk the High Court hearing that came thereafter - without Joy's sanction (either implicit, or explicit)?

Just think..... :whistle:
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
Sorry but ARVO is not a subsidiary of SISU Capital. It is not listed in the group structure disclosed in the SISU Capital accounts filed at Companies House.

Think you will find there is a connection via Seppala as she signed some of the JR documents on behalf of ARVO. The nature of her exact role in ARVO is unclear
Click to expand...

Ah - apologies OSB, and thank you for the correction. In fairness, I should have quoted Fisher...

http://joinmust.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-79099.html (originally from the CET)

(Fisher) said Arvo Master Fund Ltd is part of Mayfair-based Sisu, and is “Sisu’s hedge fund” investing £500,000 a month to meet the club’s “funding gap”.
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Let's stop being silly. Think through this simple question. Do you think Fisher was empowered, or able, to enter the rent strike - and risk the High Court hearing that came thereafter - without Joy's sanction (either implicit, or explicit)?

Just think..... :whistle:
Click to expand...

Dunno, she seemed to let all his predecessors do what they like...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
Why does she say we instead of "Tim"? Implies consent.
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Dunno, why do politicians say we instead of "David"?


I don't think the term 'we' implies consent.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
stupot07 said:
But again that's different to fisher going to sisu's management board and requesting approval.
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So it seemed you honestly believe the rent strike was started without SISU's approval.

Do you think it was continued without SISU's approval, up to and including the point at which it took the club into court for debt orders and Administration?
 
spider_ricoh

spider_ricoh

New Member
Has to be said, this is far more worthwhile and riveting than the typical CCFC match!

This must be post 16,80 on this thead - one post for every person who went to the Bradford game!
 
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