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[skybluetony176]

How can you put profit margins aside? That's the whole point, controlling your own suppliers to get the best profit margin possible (not c10% currently) and reinvesting that money into the team/covering losses

You need to be asking grendull. He's the authority on this apparently.

I'm with you though. Profit for sanity turnover for vanity.

 

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[bigfatronssba]

So if the club owned all the f and b revenues it can't have both? Why? I'm confused.

Its a simple question really - which one is more important, revenue or profit?

 

[bigfatronssba]

Of course they can, more revenue leads to more profit, 10% of £2m is more than 10% of £1m

Also missed my question.

Which is more important, revenue or profit?

 

[chiefdave]

So if the club owned all the f and b revenues it can't have both? Why? I'm confused.

But I thought profit was irrelevant?

Profit is irrelevant - revenue is king.

 

[stupot07]

Also missed my question.

Which is more important, revenue or profit?

Profit obviously, but you have to access revenue to get the profit.

Are you saying that ACL cross invoicing is equally beneficial?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[bigfatronssba]

Profit obviously, but you have to access revenue to get the profit.

Are you saying that ACL cross invoicing is equally beneficial?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

No, I was questioning the statement made by Grendel that:

"Profit is irrelevant" and "Revenue is king".

 

[Grendel]

No, I was questioning the statement made by Grendel that:

"Profit is irrelevant" and "Revenue is king".

The comment was aimed at Tony's statement - he wants sisu to make profit and keep it. Very generous.

Revenue is of course the key in FFp im this league but the club by controlling its own revenues will also clearly benefit from profit. You and chiefdave seem not to want the club to make any profit. You both seem more interested in ACL and their finances. This is fair enough. Personally my only concern is the football club.

 

[bigfatronssba]

The comment was aimed at Tony's statement - he wants sisu to make profit and keep it. Very generous.

Revenue is of course the key in FFp im this league but the club by controlling its own revenues will also clearly benefit from profit. You and chiefdave seem not to want the club to make any profit. You both seem more interested in ACL and their finances. This is fair enough. Personally my only concern is the football club.

Of course it is. That is why you wish harm upon stadium management companies that no longer have anything to do with your football club.

 

[Grendel]

Of course it is. That is why you wish harm upon stadium management companies that no longer have anything to do with your football club.

Wish harm? Real fans will be angry at the harm they have done to us. Not Ron though, not Ron.....,

 

[bigfatronssba]

Wish harm? Real fans will be angry at the harm they have done to us. Not Ron though, not Ron.....,

Oh dear....resorting to the "real fans" comment.

 

[Astute]

We've seen how people from the Trust & KCIC have had to:

• deal with multi-faceted campaigns
• deal with a lot of grief from people online and in the media and
• work with limited resources (money/people etc.)

And put up with accusations from Timothy and Labo. They try to choose can be a part of them although they are independent. All of us on here are in agreement on how badly it was handled.

I am still trying to work out why anyone that has ever met Joy ends up attacking CCC. Les even started going mad at our fans. His bias was clear to see. Yet by the sound of it you think he is not biased at all.

So what do you know? You say that you knew how bad SISU are for our club. Why are you now campaigning for exactly what they want? If we don't know anything how can we back what SISU want. I read how you were questioning the bids for the Higgs share. All the proof was in the court papers. And when Deering tried to change the idea of what went on she was stopped by the judge.

 

[Astute]

Wish harm? Real fans will be angry at the harm they have done to us. Not Ron though, not Ron.....,

Real fans, armchair fans and occasional fans will all be angry at the harm SISU have done to our club.

 

[DaleM]

I am still trying to work out why anyone that has ever met Joy ends up attacking CCC.

IMO Either an incredibly persuasive charasmatic character or great at promising rewards if supported in all this . Take your pick.

 

[thelookout]

IMO Either an incredibly persuasive charasmatic character or great at promising rewards if supported in all this . Take your pick.

Or just gullible twats.

 

[Grendel]

Or just gullible twats.

I'm on the lookout for when you are going to contribute anything of any interest on this forum. I'm still on the lookout.

 

[chiefdave]

Revenue is of course the key in FFp im this league but the club by controlling its own revenues will also clearly benefit from profit. You and chiefdave seem not to want the club to make any profit. You both seem more interested in ACL and their finances. This is fair enough. Personally my only concern is the football club.

I couldn't care less about ACL and their finances really, although its all that seems to get discussed on here these days.

I would love the club to make a huge profit, and I would love it even more if that money was reinvested back into the club and the community. I would have no objection to SISU also making a profit if this was happening.

What I would be interested in is a business plan from SISU which clearly shows a viable roadmap to how they are going to make the club profitable as they move forward with their plan for a new ground and several years playing outside the city.

If they're not going to build a new ground I would be interested in a similar plan for how they intend to purchase the Ricoh (in whatever configuration they desire) and how that will be of benefit to the club rather than SISU and their investors.

What I don't want is to hand everything over to SISU in the hope that they are good people with the clubs best interest at heart, that doesn't seem a wise plan to me yet you seem to think that is the best way forward and you are of course entitled to that opinion.

 

[chiefdave]

Thinking about it the best place for Rob to start is a formal meeting with SISU, seeing as they seem to be open to meeting with him, and establish what exactly it is they want. There's no point Rob running a campaign pressuring CCC to offer a leasehold deal, for example, to SISU if that's not something SISU would be interested in. Once he has that information he can look at how reasonable their requirements are and if they're even something that is feasible. If SISU want something that CCC can't offer then isn't the whole campaign a waste of time.

If we can get some clarity from the SISU side as to how they want to move things forward, and preferably demonstrate how that plan aids the club, then pressure can be applied to the appropriate people but until we know that it's just taking a shot in the dark.

 

[Rob S]

Rob, what are the chances of CCFC playing at the Ricoh next season?

Good question.

If there are changes in the council attitude or personnel at the election, 50-50

If we wait until the Judicial Review and Sisu 'win' 20-80

If we wait until the Judicial Review and Sisu 'lose' 0

This is part of the reason we want to keep all sides under pressure (by pushing from the Council side). No matter what people think of who should be held responsible for what, it'll be quicker to get us back to the Ricoh if there is a compromise deal negotiated between all sides. Otherwise, we're off to wherever on the Coventry borders with a 3-5 year wait beforehand.

Actually I want to back that question.

It's been discussed over and over here and if someone could get a straight answer from sisu/TF/Labovich that would be vey helpful.
What construction are they aiming for? Will there be a new prop-co sitting under Otium or SBS&L?

Hi Rob

Thank you for clearing up some of the points.

the only one i'm interested is the point i'm raising about the tenancy agreement that will be in place between sisu and the club. the whole PWHK said this, you said that is of no concern to me and niether is your frienship with Les Reid as at the end of the day they dont effect our club.

If SISU take controll of any stadium what is the tenancy agreement going to be for our club? until we know that, its impossible to know whether we should be getting on board with sisu either gaining control of the ricoh or building another stadium where the club will be tenants. The long term sustainability of my club is the only thing concerns me, whoever the land lord might be.

sorry Rob

just to add if you dont know thats fine, as far as i'm aware no representative from sisu/ccfc have ever given any details on this. but if you could just clarify this point one way or another that would be grand.

cheers

Cheers Tony,
This has come up with Tim Fisher a few times and a general answer is that they don't really know because it would depend on what they end up with at the end of the negotiations & the terms of any agreements. There has also been mention of a prop-co/op-co arrangement (which is what we had at Highfield Road IIRC and is fairly common throughout the top divisions where football clubs own their stadiums) which a Holdings company own the company that holds the property and the company that operates the business.

It is something that would be important with the new stadium too and I will follow up on this to try and get a more detailed reply if that's OK?

Rob: I have just TWO questions...........

1. What the f*** does Joy Sepalla actually look like?
2. Can you take a picture of her and put it on these forums?
Just so we all know who we're actually bowing down to, like......

HehHeh! I think if I did that, we'd be ending any chance of future contact with her. And maybe some unwanted legal hassle too

I will say one thing though. The idea that she's some bewitching genius that can bend people to her will is pretty laughable.

I would say speaking to all sides would actually mean explaining who you are representing at the very least, otherwise they would be correct in not remembering meeting with you as an organisation wouldn't they

I did introduce myself to Paul Harris and I ended up speaking with Peter later because I was chatting to Paul again so easy to miss introductions & so forth. Certainly nothing underhand intended on my part.

Rob S: Without quoting the whole of post #288, you say in regard to Joy Seppala: "Shock news: She's a nice person."

She may in fact be a charming person - I don't know as I have not met her - and clearly Les Reid and yourself seem to have fallen under her spell. But forgive me for believing that actions speak louder than words. I don't detect anything that is at all 'nice' about Ms Seppala given the way she has behaved towards the supporters of Coventry City. This woman is quoted as only caring about her investors and she and her henchmen - Fisher & Labovitch - have shown a total disregard for the vast majority of us.

Very nice - NOT!

Maybe you need to meet her to decide for yourself? Obviously those that have already met her – and there are quite a few it appears – are all too weak-willed to resist her devious mind-control abilities.

If she's so damn nice let's wheel her out. You can even do it at an organised, vetted forum, release pre-checked pictures and copy, whatever. But to make no move at all, and to continue to treat the fans the way the club have in the past 12 months, is inexcusable IMO.

I'd assume that the counter-argument would be along the lines of the Council having some responsibility in that treatment. I can ask tho'

I'm torn on the whole 'see who owns us' thing. I don't remember seeing too much of the Robbins family and certainly not ol' Geoffrey and having the likes of Vincent Tan or the whole string of egotistical nutters that have graced the high table at footie clubs around country isn't a compelling argument for owner visibility.

Then again, if we had decent fan ownership / representation, visibility would be a given.

 

[Rob S]

I couldn't care less about ACL and their finances really, although its all that seems to get discussed on here these days.

I would love the club to make a huge profit, and I would love it even more if that money was reinvested back into the club and the community. I would have no objection to SISU also making a profit if this was happening.

What I would be interested in is a business plan from SISU which clearly shows a viable roadmap to how they are going to make the club profitable as they move forward with their plan for a new ground and several years playing outside the city.

If they're not going to build a new ground I would be interested in a similar plan for how they intend to purchase the Ricoh (in whatever configuration they desire) and how that will be of benefit to the club rather than SISU and their investors.

What I don't want is to hand everything over to SISU in the hope that they are good people with the clubs best interest at heart, that doesn't seem a wise plan to me yet you seem to think that is the best way forward and you are of course entitled to that opinion.

I don't understand where this 'you just want to hand them everything' idea is coming from. They should pay and pay what is negotiated with independent valuations involved. Like it or not, they have a hold on our club so we have to break that or work with them. The bottom line is that, despite many attempts to unseat them – some of them possibly illegal (we find out soon!) – they are still our owners and they have the golden share.

As for business plans & the like…I can but ask but as that is financial information for shareholders and the like, the obvious reply would be that it comes under commercial confidentiality. By the same token, I doubt we'd get to see a similar roadmap or business plan for the Ricoh Arena development in the post-CCFC era.

Thinking about it the best place for Rob to start is a formal meeting with SISU, seeing as they seem to be open to meeting with him, and establish what exactly it is they want. There's no point Rob running a campaign pressuring CCC to offer a leasehold deal, for example, to SISU if that's not something SISU would be interested in. Once he has that information he can look at how reasonable their requirements are and if they're even something that is feasible. If SISU want something that CCC can't offer then isn't the whole campaign a waste of time.

If we can get some clarity from the SISU side as to how they want to move things forward, and preferably demonstrate how that plan aids the club, then pressure can be applied to the appropriate people but until we know that it's just taking a shot in the dark.

The clarity is, they want to move forward with the new stadium. For our part, we want negotiations to restart that involve getting CCFC back playing at the Ricoh. Anything else is for the protagonists to decide.

If people want Sisu to pay for all of their alleged crimes and never bring us back, that's fine but then we have our club playing in sodding Northampton for years.

If people genuinely do want the club back sooner, and back in the Ricoh, then they are going to have to accept a compromise somewhere along the way. This is how things play out in the world of politics and business and for a hell of a lot of Cov fans out there, beyond this particular walled garden at least, getting to see their team in Coventry is more important than worrying about who should be held responsible for what.

I don't necessarily trust Sisu. But I don't necessarily trust the Council either. However, they are the two main sides that can move forward to get this sorted so lock 'em in a room with a bucket and a jug of water and get on with it. Otherwise we're doomed to watch our club from afar as it creaks its way to a new stadium or the Football Conference.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Rob thanks for the answer.

Another question if you get the time. To your knowledge is PH4 or any other investor still interested in the club? Thanks.

 

[wingy]

There has also been mention of a prop-co/op-co arrangement (which is what we had at Highfield Road IIRC and is fairly common throughout the top divisions where football clubs own their stadiums) which a Holdings company own the company that holds the property and the company that operates the business.


We clearly had this too ,until around 18 months ago ,admittedly with a lease ,so not too hard to seperate out by the looks of it. Maybe not too hard to do again should they end up owning the Arena ??

 

[skybluetony176]

Hi Rob

Thank you for the reply. It's pretty much as I saw it. I understand TF's reply with regards to the Ricoh but surely they must know what the case will be for the club if they build the sisu arena? I find it concerning if I'm being honest. I can only think of two reasons they won't/can't tell us. Either they are flying by the seat of there pants and they have no clear plan or we're not going to like the tenancy agreement that they lumbar the club with. Only this time no one in charge is going to be making a song and dance about it and the club is just going to bounce along the bottom with no prospect of change. Keep up the good work and please keep plugging this point it's pointless pushing for sisu ownership of the Ricoh or building of a new stadium if we don't know what's in it for the club.

 

[Astute]

All members of Coventry council have voted against SISU getting what they want. So what good would the present councilors getting voted out do?

And have you forgotten what Joy has said she wants and nothing else will do? Unencumbered freehold. Nothing else will do. And it can't happen. Not because that us fans or CCC don't want it to happen. It can't happen because of the laws governing this sort of thing.

So was it just bluster from Joy? Asking for what she knew couldn't happen hoping to get offered something? Or hasn't she looked into it like she should have? She is used to asset stripping private companies. And has hit a brick wall this time as CCC are governed by laws.

 

[Ian1779]

All members of Coventry council have voted against SISU getting what they want. So what good would the present councilors getting voted out do?

And have you forgotten what Joy has said she wants and nothing else will do? Unencumbered freehold. Nothing else will do. And it can't happen. Not because that us fans or CCC don't want it to happen. It can't happen because of the laws governing this sort of thing.

So was it just bluster from Joy? Asking for what she knew couldn't happen hoping to get offered something? Or hasn't she looked into it like she should have? She is used to asset stripping private companies. And has hit a brick wall this time as CCC are governed by laws.

Why does the law stop them offering a unencumbered freehold? I genuinely don't know why...

 

[Jack Griffin]

Good question.

If there are changes in the council attitude or personnel at the election, 50-50
If we wait until the Judicial Review and Sisu 'win' 20-80
If we wait until the Judicial Review and Sisu 'lose' 0

You're very confident of your arguments, but there is no guarantee you've got it right, I don't think you have.

Personally i think if SISU lose the JR they'll sell up, there is no business case for building a stadium that isn't even in Coventry after having alienated 80% of the fan base, there is no love for them, they'll face a seriously depleted fan base. The major investors know this.. I suspect the JR is simply a last throw of the dice.

The local election will change nothing, it will be same old, the football club is a side issue & most people don't vote anyway.

Even if SISU actually embark upon their cock-a-mamie scheme to build a new stadium it will take years just to get planning permission.
During that time, provided they get regular promotions as their stated ambition, it is likely Cov Utd will attract significant support, just because they're here & CCFC are not, the net result being very a negative one for CCFC.

 

[Grendel]

You're very confident of your arguments, but there is no guarantee you've got it right, I don't think you have.

Personally i think if SISU lose the JR they'll sell up, there is no business case for building a stadium that isn't even in Coventry after having alienated 80% of the fan base, there is no love for them, they'll face a seriously depleted fan base. The major investors know this.. I suspect the JR is simply a last throw of the dice.

The local election will change nothing, it will be same old, the football club is a side issue & most people don't vote anyway.

Even if SISU actually embark upon their cock-a-mamie scheme to build a new stadium it will take years just to get planning permission.
During that time, provided they get regular promotions as their stated ambition, it is likely Cov Utd will attract significant support, just because they're here & CCFC are not, the net result being very a negative one for CCFC.

Why did you make a comment previously that Rob was not from Coventry? Are you implying that only people born inside the city can care about the club, what was the purpose of that statement?

 

[Jack Griffin]

Why did you make a comment previously that Rob was not from Coventry? Are you implying that only people born inside the city can care about the club, what was the purpose of that statement?

I didn't I said he doesn't live in Coventry.

 

[Grendel]

I didn't I said he doesn't live in Coventry.

Jack your account is hacked change the password.

Either that or you have memory loss.

Hacking could have implications for all citizens of Coventry if you are using a council Intrenet. Please report this to Anne immediately.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Jack your account is hacked change the password.

Either that or you have memory loss.

Hacking could have implications for all citizens of Coventry if you are using a council Intrenet. Please report this to Anne immediately.

Surely all Council employees broke up on Tuesday for 3 weeks Easter holidays.

 

[Grendel]

I didn't I said he doesn't live in Coventry.

Anyway Jack now we know you are talking bullshit answer the question

 

[Grendel]

Anyway Jack now we know you are talking bullshit answer the question

Jack has left the building. That council bonus won't be coming his way this year.

 

[Nick]

Ay? What's happening?

 

[limoncello]

That's pretty weird.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Jack your account is hacked change the password.

Either that or you have memory loss.

Hacking could have implications for all citizens of Coventry if you are using a council Intrenet. Please report this to Anne immediately.

Grendel, I think he misread what you wrote, and then you misread what he wrote.

 

[Nick]

I am confused