Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
The club would be receiving millions more from the fans if it hadn't relocated itself. ACL could charge us a good £3m in rent and we would still be better off at the Ricoh for crying out loud.
possible after JR scenario ? (15 Viewers)
- Thread starter sky blue john
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The club would be receiving millions more from the fans if it hadn't relocated itself. ACL could charge us a good £3m in rent and we would still be better off at the Ricoh for crying out loud.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Wrong. The official position is that the Ricoh is the preferred option but if that is not attainable other avenues will be explored.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Given that losses were at least £7 million a year when the average crowd was nearly 20,000 and rent was half that I would say that is debatable.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
So it's true that they aren't currently exploring other avenues. Someone should tell the FL, we'll be back at the Ricoh before you can say judicial review.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
What percentage of those losses are directly attributed to the rent?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Like you I am not an expert. However also LIKE you, I have agreed that one party alone are not to blame for all of this mess.
The application of remedies once a Judicial review has been won are governed by the discretion of the judge decides to use it......
The discretionary nature means that even if a court finds a public body has acted wrongly, it does not have to grant any remedy. Examples of where discretion will be exercised against an applicant may include where the applicant’s own conduct has been unmeritorious or unreasonable.
So there is always the potential when someone wins a judicial review that nothing changes including reversing the decision.
I would be stunned if Mark was not aware of that.
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Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
An extra 10,000 on the gate equates to a good £3.5-4m a season extra in ticket money, ignoring any rises in merchandising or sponsorship associated with the return. Rent at Northampton is what, £100k? We would have more money left over at the end of the year, I suspect.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Answering hypothetical questions is a rather pointless exercise. You might just as well ask if SISU are suitable custodians of the club if the result of the JR is that there is no case to answer.
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Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
Was referring to ACL john .
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The vast majority are attributable to the actual rental arrangement. If the club had full access to the ground 365 days a year these losses would be obliterated.
Your statement is curious. It seems to suggest the club should have significantly reduced its budget on players to support the unworkable arrangement. Given even with the average wage budget we had at the time left us uncompetitive on the field the natural conclusion is you'd happily have accepted relegation years ago as long as ACL received their pound of flesh.
thegameaintstraight
New Member
So we can take it that "other avenues" are not being explored at the moment.
Did you really mean that and if so who told you, or is it just careless use of english?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
A typically absurd statement minute Tony. The club have to explore these as a last resort if the enforced eviction continues.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
My "statement" wasn't a statement, it was a question.
A question you didn't answer.
The rest of the nonsense you spouted was all your own work.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
We haven't been evicted Grendo and you know it.
RegTheDonk
Well-Known Member
Did ACL evict them?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You've gone all Billy big balls since meeting ML. It was you who made the statement that the club are not exploring other avenues. My response was warranted given that the FL have been given assurances from the club that they are exploring other avenues. Enforced eviction my arse. What happened in this meeting? Was it like the scene in zoolander where he got brainwashed?
skybluefred
New Member
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J
Jack Griffin
Guest
I'd love to hear what the Judge says about that if SISU make that claim at the JR hearing..
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Yeah, didn't you know. The footage of men emptying the club shop and loading it into vans before the end of last season was bailiffs appointed by ACL.
;-)
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I did answer the question minuscule Tony. Yes it was mostly to do with the rental arrangement.
Your defence of your paymasters is noted.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Insisting the club’s survival depends on income streams from a stadium and land denied to it by the council, Ms Seppala continued: “Plan A is building a new stadium. There is something very exciting about building something that is a new beginning. It feels like the club is at a new beginning.
“There is no way we would go back to a rental deal. As I have said to the Football League when they asked recently if we would do a temporary arrangement, it would be irrational to return on an interim basis where I have any exposure to Coventry City Council whatsoever.
skybluefred
New Member
Please tell me who forced an eviction. nb I already know it wasn't the CCC or ACL so do please enlighten.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
What was the percentage grendull. That was the question you didn't answer and won't.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
There we have it, in a nutshell, why we're playing in Northampton-a personal agenda of our owner against the council. Eviction implies that ACL booted us out-yet our club badge is still on the ground and the seats inside still spell 'Sky Blues'...
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Sisu boss Joy Seppala turned down a deal which could have brought the Sky Blues back to the Ricoh – rent-free for the rest of the season.
The offer was made by ACL before council leader Ann Lucas met for talks with Sisu boss Seppala.
It is understood the proposal could have seen the Sky Blues play rent free until the end of this season – and £100,000 for each of the next two seasons if they remained in League One.
The club complains the proposal failed to offer the loss-making club any vital stadium revenues, and would still have seen them paying other matchday costs totalling £320,000 a year.
The plan was presented as an alternative to Sisu/Otium playing Coventry City’s ‘home’ matches at Northampton for three to five years, while building a new stadium in Warwickshire.
It is understood the club pays above £150,000 a year to play at Northampton’s Sixfields ground, where attendances of less than 2,000 compare with last season’s 10,000 Ricoh gates, adding to the club’s financial losses.
The latest rent proposal was revealed in a Guardian newspaper report.
In the summer ACL had made a rent offer of £400,000 via administrator Paul Appleton, down from the £1.3million rent the club had partly stopped paying, complaining it was extortionate.
Mark Labovitch, Otium’s non-executive director, said: “We clearly understood from Ann’s statement on October 30 that she was prepared to discuss ownership. We were surprised when that turned out not to be the case.
“We were equally surprised at the way ACL directors, the council executives Martin Reeves and Chris West, did not communicate this change of heart to us in a direct and straightforward way, but did so instead with off-record whispers on a fans’ podcast, the Nii Lamptey show.
“We have made it clear that no club can have a viable financial future unless it owns its own stadium.
“There is no prospect of us returning to the former landlord/tenant relationship with ACL, a company which bled the club dry for many years over two generations of owners, and wilfully sought to damage the club with actions which led to needless points deductions over the last two seasons.
“Such inexplicable actions have severely damaged our promotion chances. It is a credit to Steven Pressley and the players that so much of the damage caused by ACL has been made good.
“Joy’s door is open to Ann for further discussions. But we would have to be clear this time that it would be a discussion about stadium ownership.”
“In the absence of a clear commitment to discuss ownership, we are pressing ahead with the plans for our new stadium on the outskirts of Coventry.”
An ACL spokesman said: “A further attempt to bring the Sky Blues home to Coventry was made recently by Arena Coventry Limited.
"A rent-free offer, with the club only paying matchday costs, was made via the Football League, who offered to act as brokers to a deal.
"The offer was made on the basis that the club could come back to Coventry immediately and then negotiations of a more permanent settlement could begin again in earnest. At present, no formal response has been received.
“ACL would of course welcome the Sky Blues back to their home stadium and are available to do so at short notice. We have an open door policy on discussions to achieve this and will make every effort to do so if called upon.
"At present we are focused on running our business as we head into the busy Christmas and New Year period and look forward to hearing from the football club.”
The offer was made by ACL before council leader Ann Lucas met for talks with Sisu boss Seppala.
It is understood the proposal could have seen the Sky Blues play rent free until the end of this season – and £100,000 for each of the next two seasons if they remained in League One.
The club complains the proposal failed to offer the loss-making club any vital stadium revenues, and would still have seen them paying other matchday costs totalling £320,000 a year.
The plan was presented as an alternative to Sisu/Otium playing Coventry City’s ‘home’ matches at Northampton for three to five years, while building a new stadium in Warwickshire.
It is understood the club pays above £150,000 a year to play at Northampton’s Sixfields ground, where attendances of less than 2,000 compare with last season’s 10,000 Ricoh gates, adding to the club’s financial losses.
The latest rent proposal was revealed in a Guardian newspaper report.
In the summer ACL had made a rent offer of £400,000 via administrator Paul Appleton, down from the £1.3million rent the club had partly stopped paying, complaining it was extortionate.
Mark Labovitch, Otium’s non-executive director, said: “We clearly understood from Ann’s statement on October 30 that she was prepared to discuss ownership. We were surprised when that turned out not to be the case.
“We were equally surprised at the way ACL directors, the council executives Martin Reeves and Chris West, did not communicate this change of heart to us in a direct and straightforward way, but did so instead with off-record whispers on a fans’ podcast, the Nii Lamptey show.
“We have made it clear that no club can have a viable financial future unless it owns its own stadium.
“There is no prospect of us returning to the former landlord/tenant relationship with ACL, a company which bled the club dry for many years over two generations of owners, and wilfully sought to damage the club with actions which led to needless points deductions over the last two seasons.
“Such inexplicable actions have severely damaged our promotion chances. It is a credit to Steven Pressley and the players that so much of the damage caused by ACL has been made good.
“Joy’s door is open to Ann for further discussions. But we would have to be clear this time that it would be a discussion about stadium ownership.”
“In the absence of a clear commitment to discuss ownership, we are pressing ahead with the plans for our new stadium on the outskirts of Coventry.”
An ACL spokesman said: “A further attempt to bring the Sky Blues home to Coventry was made recently by Arena Coventry Limited.
"A rent-free offer, with the club only paying matchday costs, was made via the Football League, who offered to act as brokers to a deal.
"The offer was made on the basis that the club could come back to Coventry immediately and then negotiations of a more permanent settlement could begin again in earnest. At present, no formal response has been received.
“ACL would of course welcome the Sky Blues back to their home stadium and are available to do so at short notice. We have an open door policy on discussions to achieve this and will make every effort to do so if called upon.
"At present we are focused on running our business as we head into the busy Christmas and New Year period and look forward to hearing from the football club.”
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
This indicates to me and with the seppala interview given to the CET before this offer, it's just a personal feud and to quote seppala " this isn't to distress ACL as even if they went bust then they can sell to whoever and CCC candidate to whom. "
I actually agree with her on this as there is so much hatred now that sisu will never own the Ricoh period. I can 100% assure every SBT man that sisu will never own the Ricoh. It won't happen and sisu know this or must know this. I really see them running out of options and The JR is one last throw of the dice even if it's worth it. The fact is sisu have mismanaged the whole situation and have only themselves to blame as it stops with them. If I make a mistake it's my fault not someone else's.
Fans get caught up in this shit and it's horrible. I see sisu running off after the JR or something has to give. They can't continue at Northampton losing more and more Fans from the few that remain and losing millions. This won't happen as they can't keep losing as any business can't keep losing millions. Surely.
I actually agree with her on this as there is so much hatred now that sisu will never own the Ricoh period. I can 100% assure every SBT man that sisu will never own the Ricoh. It won't happen and sisu know this or must know this. I really see them running out of options and The JR is one last throw of the dice even if it's worth it. The fact is sisu have mismanaged the whole situation and have only themselves to blame as it stops with them. If I make a mistake it's my fault not someone else's.
Fans get caught up in this shit and it's horrible. I see sisu running off after the JR or something has to give. They can't continue at Northampton losing more and more Fans from the few that remain and losing millions. This won't happen as they can't keep losing as any business can't keep losing millions. Surely.
skyblueinBaku
Well-Known Member
There was no eviction, forced or otherwise, Grendel and you know it. Why do you persist in propogating this myth?
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I can't see Ccfc (whoever owns us) ever owning the Ricoh or even the 100% leasehold. I came see the council ever relinquishing their share in ACL and they certainly won't sell the freehold.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
If Mr Haskel had succeeded?
stupot07
Well-Known Member
he'd have just bought Higgs out and possibly some land.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
At the meeting I had one non sisu related attendee co formed that Haskell was never ever going to buy the club - never had enough equity. Your not a great judge of character are you?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
I didn't judge his character
I asked if he had succeeded do you think ACL would have been sold to him?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Could CCFC have survived with that deal?
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
Depends - he may have offered a pound for ACL in which case yes.