possible after JR scenario ? (9 Viewers)

[letsallsingtogether]

But that was only their view.
just like its your view tat Anne Lucus is worse the Mutton that is not what came out at our meeting or from other meetings I know took place?

Ah but it will all come out soon.....

At the meeting I had one non sisu related attendee co formed that Haskell was never ever going to buy the club - never had enough equity. Your not a great judge of character are you?

 

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[Astute]

“There is no prospect of us returning to the former landlord/tenant relationship with ACL, a company which bled the club dry for many years over two generations of owners, and wilfully sought to damage the club with actions which led to needless points deductions over the last two seasons"

Labo certainly knows how to twist words and push the blame onto others.

Many years? Not that many years, and rent paid will be about 10% of our debt. The rent paid would be about equal to two years of lost revenue by keeping our club in Northampton.

Two generations of owners? Rent was paid for about 6 years.

Willfully sought to damage the club and to blame for points deductions over two years? I feel better knowing that the points lost were nothing to do with the inept way that SISU run our club.

All that much bullshit crammed into one sentence. Didn't he do well. And some still wonder why the parties can't come to some sort of arrangement.

 

[Astute]

Depends - he may have offered a pound for ACL in which case yes.

A quid would have been too much. All that would have been bought was a rental agreement and debts that had been run up by SISU.

 

[sky blue john]

We have gone a little off track.
I do believe two points in relevance to Sisu's case at the JR or future court actions.
1) claimed eviction from the Ricoh.
2) rental offers that seemed to be ignored and not acknowledged.

 

[sky blue john]

Even if Sisu win the JR what do they do next ?
There are to many long term contracts in play for them to get the Ricoh unencumbered.
I can't see them going back to a rental agreement because neither side will want to work with each other.

 

[chiefdave]

At the meeting I had one non sisu related attendee co formed that Haskell was never ever going to buy the club - never had enough equity. Your not a great judge of character are you?

Interesting comment. Who made this statement, someone that was involved on the ACL / CCC / PH4 side? Did they give any evidence to back this up or was it just their opinion?

What was their implication in this, that he would purchase the Ricoh but not the team or that the whole thing was a non starter?

 

[Grendel]

Interesting comment. Who made this statement, someone that was involved on the ACL / CCC / PH4 side? Did they give any evidence to back this up or was it just their opinion?

What was their implication in this, that he would purchase the Ricoh but not the team or that the whole thing was a non starter?

There were several people on here who questioned Haskells ability to secure a deal.

He has been involved in a number of supposed takeovers of football clubs which came to nothing. The most telling comment was from Brendan Guilfoyle, the councils preferred choice of administrator who expressed a few Haskell had nowhere near enough funding to purchase Leeds. Also remember Joe Elliot was adamant Haskell would buy imto ACL without the club. What happened to that? Where is he now?

 

[chiefdave]

There were several people on here who questioned Haskells ability to secure a deal.

He has been involved in a number of supposed takeovers of football clubs which came to nothing. The most telling comment was from Brendan Guilfoyle, the councils preferred choice of administrator who expressed a few Haskell had nowhere near enough funding to purchase Leeds. Also remember Joe Elliot was adamant Haskell would buy imto ACL without the club. What happened to that? Where is he now?

What on earth was Guilfoyle doing there, surely he would have needed to be paid to be spending his time at something like this?

It's a bit of a leap from Guilfoyle saying he didn't think he had enough money (it wasn't him alone anyway was it, wasn't he the front man for a consortium) to asserting as fact that he was never going to buy the club. Not sure how helpful it is when people presenting themselves as 'in the know' put things like this out as factual statements. Why was PK4 even being talked about, he wandered off a long time ago, what relevance does he have to things now?

 

[Grendel]

What on earth was Guilfoyle doing there, surely he would have needed to be paid to be spending his time at something like this?

It's a bit of a leap from Guilfoyle saying he didn't think he had enough money (it wasn't him alone anyway was it, wasn't he the front man for a consortium) to asserting as fact that he was never going to buy the club. Not sure how helpful it is when people presenting themselves as 'in the know' put things like this out as factual statements. Why was PK4 even being talked about, he wandered off a long time ago, what relevance does he have to things now?

He wasn't there. I am referring to an interview with Shane O Connor.

Do you think that the CCFC administration process was handled well?

 

[chiefdave]

He wasn't there. I am referring to an interview with Shane O Connor.

So who was it at the meeting you attended that confirmed PH4 was never a genuine prospect?

Do you think that the CCFC administration process was handled well?

My personal opinion is that there are questions over the way it was handled and in particular things like the lack of investigation into the transferring out of all assets and Appletons insistence that he couldn't confirm to interested parties what they would or wouldn't be purchasing as it wasn't clear what was under what company while evidence was being leaked to the press that indicated this wasn't particularly difficult to work out. The FA and FL had a big hand in the confusion, the suspicion being that they were attempting to avoid admitting to their own shortcomings.

Obviously hard to know for sure with limited information but looking on from outside it did appear to be run in a strange manner to say the least!

 

[dongonzalos]

We have gone a little off track.
I do believe two points in relevance to Sisu's case at the JR or future court actions.
1) claimed eviction from the Ricoh.
2) rental offers that seemed to be ignored and not acknowledged.

You are right it has gone off track

It seems it is possible that if a person or company win a JR. If their behaviour leading to the unfair decision taken by the public body was deemed unreasonable, then the judge can use his discretion not to apply any remedy in regards to the original action taken by the public body.

I may stand corrected but I don't think there is a single person here who argues that SISU's behaviour has not contributed to this situation.

So this could be quite relevant even if they do win.

 

[sky blue john]

The fl are the only ones that I personally feel have any power to put pressure on Sisu. My reasoning is based on that Sisu would not sue the fl because this would lead to the admin process scrutinised in court.
I am not saying anything wrong was done during the admin process. But there was some very odd comments coming from Appleton and Fisher at the time.

 

[Astute]

We don't know all the facts. But we do know quite a bit of information.

CCC will still try to do a deal with SISU. But not on SISU's terms unless they change. It would cost many millions to give SISU what they want. They wouldn't be able to lose many millions to let SISU have the freehold.

Timothy even admitted that they won't sue CCC after the JR. He knows that they wouldn't get anywhere. CCC also know this. Their original allegations can be proved to be false. At worse it looks like it is down to lack of trust. Lack of trust is not a reason to sue. Even if it was could SISU prove that they are trustworthy and the other side isn't?

I keep seeing on here that the JR is about illegal lending. It isn't. Nothing illegal has happened. It is an unlawful allegation. Sounds the same but it isn't. A judge has to decide whether it was unlawful or not. One judge already agreed that it wasn't unlawful. The next one only agreed to having a proper look after an appeal. We will just have to wait for the decision and see what new information comes out of it.

 

[Warwickhunt]

You are right it has gone off track

It seems it is possible that if a person or company win a JR. If their behaviour leading to the unfair decision taken by the public body was deemed unreasonable, then the judge can use his discretion not to apply any remedy in regards to the original action taken by the public body.

I may stand corrected but I don't think there is a single person here who argues that SISU's behaviour has not contributed to this situation.

So this could be quite relevant even if they do win.

The only thing for definate is that if the JR finds in favour that the Council Used public funds to diasadvatage another company! it will be ruled that ACL will have to pay back the £14 million loan with immediate effect- But as you said they will also find that SISU were party to CCFC leaving the RICOH on its own valition and SISU would get no compensation awarded. However it could lead to SISU buying out the debt of ACL to which they would become the owners.

 

[Astute]

Do you think that the CCFC administration process was handled well?

Which one do you mean?

Do you mean the one where Appleton couldn't find the golden share and where players hadn't been moved when SISU made out that they had?

 

[Grendel]

So who was it at the meeting you attended that confirmed PH4 was never a genuine prospect?



My personal opinion is that there are questions over the way it was handled and in particular things like the lack of investigation into the transferring out of all assets and Appletons insistence that he couldn't confirm to interested parties what they would or wouldn't be purchasing as it wasn't clear what was under what company while evidence was being leaked to the press that indicated this wasn't particularly difficult to work out. The FA and FL had a big hand in the confusion, the suspicion being that they were attempting to avoid admitting to their own shortcomings.

Obviously hard to know for sure with limited information but looking on from outside it did appear to be run in a strange manner to say the least!

The only reason he was mentioned was because I asked a question about potential buyers.

Of course he never approached the club direct but did host some fans forum of his own.

My personal view is that his involvement was distracting and damaging at a crucial time. The council would have had an interest due to his property development background. This, again, in my view was unhelpful and a dostraction.

We can only comment that his track record is:

Made 3 (or it 4) attempt to purchase clubs and failed in all of them

Was perfectly happy with the bidding process at CCFC

Did not seem to follow through any interest in buying a share of ACL despite joe Elliot stating he would persue this

Has not made any contact with the club and attempted to resurrect any interest

I guess all should judge on actions not words

 

[Houdi]

This indicates to me and with the seppala interview given to the CET before this offer, it's just a personal feud and to quote seppala " this isn't to distress ACL as even if they went bust then they can sell to whoever and CCC candidate to whom. "

I actually agree with her on this as there is so much hatred now that sisu will never own the Ricoh period. I can 100% assure every SBT man that sisu will never own the Ricoh. It won't happen and sisu know this or must know this. I really see them running out of options and The JR is one last throw of the dice even if it's worth it. The fact is sisu have mismanaged the whole situation and have only themselves to blame as it stops with them. If I make a mistake it's my fault not someone else's.

Fans get caught up in this shit and it's horrible. I see sisu running off after the JR or something has to give. They can't continue at Northampton losing more and more Fans from the few that remain and losing millions. This won't happen as they can't keep losing as any business can't keep losing millions. Surely.

Pretty much agree with most of that. It is like a marriage that has broken down irretrievably, there is now no way back. All the marches, standing on the hill, demonstrations outside SISU main offices or the Council House all well meaning are ultimately meaningless. If there was going to be a negotiated settlement it would have happened by now, this is now a fight to the finish.
SISU aren't suddenly going to say, 'you know what that latest rent offer actually is better than what we have at present.' Virtually no one believes in the much fabled new ground, and it is impossible to believe that CCC would ever to agree to a sale of the Ricoh on anything approaching SISU's terms.
If there was any serious plans of a new ground, it is hard to believe that CCC would not be aware of it, and the location(s) would have leaked by now. The JR can't come quickly enough.

 

[chiefdave]

The only thing for definate is that if the JR finds in favour that the Council Used public funds to diasadvatage another company! it will be ruled that ACL will have to pay back the £14 million loan with immediate effect.

Has that actually been confirmed anywhere, I've seen others state that it doesn't follow that the loan will need to be repaid if the Council are found to be at fault as there are other punishments that could be given (slap on the wrist, fine etc).

The situation ACL are in now is not the same as when they took out the loan, it may be the case that there are now other institutions who are happy to lend ACL £14m in the event that they need to look elsewhere. If that happens SISU would be no nearer to getting their hands on the Ricoh than before they started the whole process!

 

[Grendel]

Which one do you mean?

Do you mean the one where Appleton couldn't find the golden share and where players hadn't been moved when SISU made out that they had?

I mean the one where PH4 stated he was happy with process.

 

[Astute]

The only reason he was mentioned was because I asked a question about potential buyers.

Of course he never approached the club direct but did host some fans forum of his own.

My personal view is that his involvement was distracting and damaging at a crucial time. The council would have had an interest due to his property development background. This, again, in my view was unhelpful and a dostraction.

We can only comment that his track record is:

Made 3 (or it 4) attempt to purchase clubs and failed in all of them

Was perfectly happy with the bidding process at CCFC

Did not seem to follow through any interest in buying a share of ACL despite joe Elliot stating he would persue this

Has not made any contact with the club and attempted to resurrect any interest

I guess all should judge on actions not words

What was the use of bidding for nothing but a rental agreement and debts run up by SISU and not get the football club?

 

[Astute]

I mean the one where PH4 stated he was happy with process.

Shows how well they have run our club when we don't even know which administration event people are on about unless questioned.

So do you think it was done properly the time that Appleton couldn't find the golden share and where players hadn't been moved when SISU made out that they had?

 

[Grendel]

What was the use of bidding for nothing but a rental agreement and debts run up by SISU and not get the football club?

Is that directed at me or Joe Elliot?

 

[Astute]

Is that directed at me or Joe Elliot?

Is Joe on here?

Not that I know of so it must be you.

 

[dongonzalos]

The only thing for definate is that if the JR finds in favour that the Council Used public funds to diasadvatage another company! it will be ruled that ACL will have to pay back the £14 million loan with immediate effect- But as you said they will also find that SISU were party to CCFC leaving the RICOH on its own valition and SISU would get no compensation awarded. However it could lead to SISU buying out the debt of ACL to which they would become the owners.

If they find SISU were also responsible for their actions the judge can choose not to even reverse the decision by the council it can still stand. It is in the judges discretion not to apply any remedy if he feels SISU's behaviour was at all unreasonable

 

[Grendel]

Is Joe on here?

Not that I know of so it must be you.

To be honest I'm in a state of shock that you agree with me ACL is worthless without the club. What changed your mind?

 

[ccfcway]

Virtually no one believes in the much fabled new ground

Sadly the FL seem to.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He wasn't there. I am referring to an interview with Shane O Connor.

Do you think that the CCFC administration process was handled well?

I think it was manipulated very well by SISU in placing a debenture on the club at the same time they decided to withhold rent. They knew that ACL would likely try to recover the money through filing a winding up order so they did so pre-emptively. Of course the rent boycott was done with no knowledge of the owners...

 

[Astute]

To be honest I'm in a state of shock that you agree with me ACL is worthless without the club. What changed your mind?

So how did you come to that conclusion?

Even the judge pulled up Deering when she tried to make out the same crap as you just come out with. Just shows how much of a SISU puppet you have become.

 

[Como]

Rent is not the issue.

Rent and Services Charges are.

ACL seem at best incompetent.

Assuming the outcome of the JR is that the Council acted improperly.

Possible action against the Politicians. They could be sued.

Order that the loan be re paid.

Can not believe any other commercial lender would take over, so ACL go bust, Administrator sells assets, major one is lease of the Ricoh.

As a business what is it worth, makes no money, probably losing at a fair rate, NEC on the market.

SISU do need a longer lease, not sure how that comes in.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Rent is not the issue.

Rent and Services Charges are.

ACL seem at best incompetent.

Assuming the outcome of the JR is that the Council acted improperly.

Possible action against the Politicians. They could be sued.

Order that the loan be re paid.

Can not believe any other commercial lender would take over, so ACL go bust, Administrator sells assets, major one is lease of the Ricoh.

As a business what is it worth, makes no money, probably losing at a fair rate, NEC on the market.

SISU do need a longer lease, not sure how that comes in.

What service charges?

Also if sisu forcibly take control of acl like that there is no chance of the council giving them a longer lease.

 

[Grendel]

What service charges?

Match Day costs - which oddly vary with every single offer.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Match Day costs - which oddly vary with every single offer.

So no other club pay these?

Also, they have varied by no more than a few £k per game. If a variance of £30k over a season is the issue the the club must be in severe financial difficulties, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Grendel]

So no other club pay these?

Not ones that vary with every single offer no.

 

[skybluetony176]

Match Day costs - which oddly vary with every single offer.

Same as sisu's reasoning for what the club needs. It's about F&B, the rents too high, it's the unnumbered freehold and nothing else otherwise we're talking the ball away and not coming back.

What we need is some counter offers from sisu or even some offers for the freehold seeing as that's what they want. Seems strange that they haven't? It's almost like they have a different agenda to what's in the clubs best interest.

 

[skybluetony176]

Not ones that vary with every single offer no.

Wasn't a large part of this because initially sisu employed the grounds staff then sisu let them go because of the disastrous move to suxfields so ACL took them on meaning that if the club returned ACl would be paying for this service and not Sisu as before. So its more swings and roundabouts than anything sinister.