Depressing Stat (1 Viewer)

[ccfcway]

Whichever way you want to paint it, however many anti-SISU cliches you want to derail the thread with, however many melodramatic suicidal rants you want to go on, we ARE (on the pitch, the green rectangle thing in the middle) a side that is 10pts better in this league than the points tally we have.

Ergo, we're currently a collection of top half players not quite good enough to get a play off place.

in the 3rd tier of English football, with a wage bill within the top 6 of the league easily. That's woeful !

 

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[chiefdave]

What planet are football club directors on? That's sometimes a half of what some people have to live on all week.

I think the model the top PL clubs are moving towards is similar to the NHL and NBA where the majority of tickets, or at least the decent tickets, are sold to corporates who then pass them on to employees, use them for entertaining etc.

Went to an NHL game at MSG and it was a real eye opener. Pretty much the whole lower tier was corporate ticket holders, not surprising as my ticket was over $300 and far from the most expensive option. Most people didn't turn up until halfway through the first period and left well before the end. The duration of the game they were actually there for they spent checking their phones or chatting with their clients paying zero attention to what was going on. The real fans were all up in the nose bleed seats the result of which was zero atmosphere.

On the plus side there was waitresses who would bring beer and food to your seat so you didn't have to miss anything!

 

[Sterling Archer]

in the 3rd tier of English football, with a wage bill within the top 6 of the league easily. That's woeful !

and you know this about the wage bill how?

Bare in mind, a small number of players will still be on inflated wages from the Championship relegation.

 

[stupot07]

Ecky, hadn't seen this WBA £56 a ticket at Man City. We all moan about the price of stuff, but this is really taking the Mick. What planet are football club directors on? That's sometimes a half of what some people have to live on all week. Mind boggling.
If we all had any sense we'd turn our backs on football, but we love our clubs.

We've been lucky that our ticket prices have been one of the lowest in both the championship and also last season in League one. We still moan about them though. This is something any new owners need to address.


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[ccfcway]

and you know this about the wage bill how?

Bare in mind, a small number of players will still be on inflated wages from the Championship relegation.

Wolves, Sheff Utd and Preston apart, how many of the current league One clubs will be paying anyone championship wages. A small amount will still add up to a decent size of money.

Isnt the average wage in this league approx 1.5k a week ?. We will have a fair few on more than that, and some on a lot more.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I'm more intrigued as to how you are privvy to knowing where our wage budget sits amongst other clubs as well as what our players are earning bar rumours and hearsay.

I'm not being facetious by the way, I just don't know how anyone would know.

 

[ccfcway]

I'm more intrigued as to how you are privvy to knowing where our wage budget sits amongst other clubs as well as what our players are earning bar rumours and hearsay.

I'm not being facetious by the way, I just don't know how anyone would know.

Dont worry , i havent taken it as facetious.

1.5k is roughly the average wage in this league. you can google that, its on several sites.

On our books, we have our captain, Baker and we have Murphy, who both signed contracts when we were in the championship.

Not saying this is true, but the Mail reported that Baker and Murphy are on 8k a week each. That 16k for just those two is a whole team of 1.5k a week players !

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...y-sell-Carl-Baker-Leon-Clarke-Joe-Murphy.html

We have got rid of many signed in the past couple of years as a mutal "leaving the club", which surely still sit in the wage bill for this season if we have paid them off ?

We have signed some of the youngsters on longer contracts, Thomas, Wilson etc

Despite the cuts, our wage bill for this division this year will still be a lot higher than average. Or do you think that Port Vale, Gillingham, Colchester, Carilisile etc will be competiting with us on wage bills this season ?

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Whichever way you want to paint it, however many anti-SISU cliches you want to derail the thread with, however many melodramatic suicidal rants you want to go on, we ARE (on the pitch, the green rectangle thing in the middle) a side that is 10pts better in this league than the points tally we have.

Ergo, we're currently a collection of top half players not quite good enough to get a play off place.

That is true to an extent, but the worrying (if not totally surprising) thing is the way our form has collapsed.

If you look at a league table that runs from 1st January, we're one place and one point outside the relegation zone - and that's with no points deduction.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Dont worry , i havent taken it as facetious.

1.5k is roughly the average wage in this league. you can google that, its on several sites.

On our books, we have our captain, Baker and we have Murphy, who both signed contracts when we were in the championship.

Not saying this is true, but the Mail reported that Baker and Murphy are on 8k a week each. That 16k for just those two is a whole team of 1.5k a week players !

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...y-sell-Carl-Baker-Leon-Clarke-Joe-Murphy.html

We have got rid of many signed in the past couple of years as a mutal "leaving the club", which surely still sit in the wage bill for this season if we have paid them off ?

We have signed some of the youngsters on longer contracts, Thomas, Wilson etc

Despite the cuts, our wage bill for this division this year will still be a lot higher than average. Or do you think that Port Vale, Gillingham, Colchester, Carilisile etc will be competiting with us on wage bills this season ?

I'd imagine most of the youngsters will be on that L1 average, if not lower, as for many it is only their first or second professional deal.

With Murphy coming to the end of his current deal, I guess that leaves Baker as the last of the Championship big wages as well?

Excluding the Murphy and Baker contracts (which Pressley and the club cannot do anything about this season as they were already in place) I'd be willing to bet that our wage bill is not in the top 6. On that basis, I think it would be a bit unfair to say we should be getting top 6 based on the wage bill alone. We also have one of the smaller squads in the league (well at least we did until the recent splurge of loan players).

You've also named some of the smallest clubs in the division there, you'd probably be surprised what the likes of Leyton Orient, Brentford, Swindon, Notts County, MK Dons and Peterborough can offer in terms of wage budget. We're really not a big club anymore, not even in this league, we can't afford to be, especially with 10k fans less for home games.

Again, this is merely guesswork from me so we could be spectacularly wide either side of the fence.

I wasn't expecting anything other than a relegation battle this season considering our squad and inability financially to attract and bring in better players.

 

[torchomatic]

Luckily, the season doesn't start on January 1st. What an odd thing to say. If the season was only three games in length and the season started three games ago then we would have been relegated....

If you look at a league table that runs from 1st January, we're one place and one point outside the relegation zone - and that's with no points deduction.

 

[Sterling Archer]

That is true to an extent, but the worrying (if not totally surprising) thing is the way our form has collapsed.

If you look at a league table that runs from 1st January, we're one place and one point outside the relegation zone - and that's with no points deduction.

Oh, I do agree, the form is and has been worrying. We've probably got 1.75 more points on average in the first half of the season than the second.

However, at the end of the season and looking at what pts we'd have with the deduction and where it would leave us in the league amongst the other clubs, its the closet and truest reflection we will have to seeing where we are as a squad.

We can't just forget the start of the season with the majority of the same squad didn't happen so we can argue in the favour of 'despair'. In the same light, we can't neglect the horrific end to the season which is contributed to wherever we finish up.

I actually think teams got wise as to how we played, Pressley subtlety admits himself by conceding his favoured attacking and pressing tactics were struggling to get us results recently, hence the change.

Ignoring off the field matters, its a big summer for Pressley and the players. Some will come and some will go, its inevitable regardless of whats going on with the suits upstairs, such is the nature of League One football. More interestingly, I'm intrigued to see what approach he goes for tactically next season, which will no doubt be dependent on the make up of the squad in the Summer.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Luckily, the season doesn't start on January 1st. What an odd thing to say. If the season was only three games in length and the season started three games ago then we would have been relegated....

If you think that looking at our form over the most recent (almost) four month period is "odd", then fair enough.

I'd have thought that it was a fairly relevant indicator as to how things are currently going.

 

[torchomatic]

I do because the season is played over a nine month period. Anything taken in isolation can back up any argument you wish to make. Let's flip it and say that if the season ended on 31st December then we'd have had our best season in years.

If you think that looking at our form over the most recent (almost) four month period is "odd", then fair enough.

I'd have thought that it was a fairly relevant indicator as to how things are currently going.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Oh, I totally agree. We've probably got 1.75 more points on average in the first half of the season than the second.

However, at the end of the season and looking at what pts we'd have with the deduction and where it would leave us in the league amongst the other clubs, its the closet and truest reflection we will have to seeing where we are as a squad.

We can't just forget the start of the season with the majority of the same squad didn't happen so we can argue despair me. In the same light, we can't neglect the horrific end to the season which is contributed to wherever we finish up.

I actually think teams got wise as to how we played, Pressley subtlety admits himself by conceding his favoured attacking and pressing tactics were struggling to get us results recently, hence the change.

Ignoring off the field matters, its a big summer for Pressley and the players. Some will come and some will go, its inevitable regardless of whats going on with the suits upstairs, such is the nature of League One football. More interestingly, I'm intrigued to see what approach he goes for tactically next season, which will no doubt be dependent on the make up of the squad in the Summer.

I agree with much of that.

Our start was little short of wonderful.

I was however one of the "pessimists" who at the time posted that this had a bit of the feel of Bobby Gould's first season as manager - for those who can remember that far back!

With a small and young squad, it always seemed probable that we would fall away and of course the loss of Clarke has exacerbated that.

I suppose looking at things positively, if the past continues to repeat itself, we might win the cup in three years

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

I do because the season is played over a nine month period. Anything taken in isolation can back up any argument you wish to make. Let's flip it and say that if the season ended on 31st December then we'd have had our best season in years.

Fair enough, I will make a note that you will only ever comment on anything relating to performances over a full season.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Yep, I said the same thing, we can call it an online mutual back slapping. It was a real shame when people genuinely thought we culd sneak a play off place despite the deduction, as it was obvious the squad size wouldn't be able to keep up the form for 46 league games. Young, inexperienced and lacking in 3 or 4 more 'bodies'.

We're a mid table side at the moment, nothing more, nothing less really.

I'd have probably taken where we currently are now, if you offered it to me in July 2013.

 

[torchomatic]

Thank you. I appreciate that but will continue to carry out spot checks to ensure you're sticking to it.

Fair enough, I will make a note that you will only ever comment on anything relating to performances over a full season.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Yep, I said the same thing, we can call it an online mutual back slapping. It was a real shame when people genuinely thought we culd sneak a play off place despite the deduction, as it was obvious the squad size wouldn't be able to keep up the form for 46 league games. Young, inexperienced and lacking in 3 or 4 more 'bodies'.

We're a mid table side at the moment, nothing more, nothing less really.

I'd have probably taken where we currently are now, if you offered it to me in July 2013.

Totally agree.

The season feels a bit of a let down because of the great start, but staying up will be a pretty impressive achievement in the circumstances.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Thank you. I appreciate that but will continue to carry out spot checks to ensure you're sticking to it.

I think you misunderstand.

It'll be me checking on you (insert evil laugh)

 

[Spionkop]

You two jokers.

 

[oldskyblue58]

I think one of the things I find worrying is that despite the emphasis on changing to a winning mentality it is situation normal .......... a sharp decline in the results in the second half of the season. First 23 games we took 39 points so far since then we have taken 21 points. The 10 point deduction wont happen every year and it is what it is, we would still be well short of playoffs but of course comfortably above relegation without it in the equation...... mid table nothing to play for at this time of year, (would that be a novelty in many seasons?)

Clearly lack of resource, young players, loss of half the strike force, injuries, suspensions etc factor in to that. But we are not the only club faced with those kinds of problems.

It just seems to me that no matter what the squad in recent seasons something switches off at the club at the end of December. Until we can change that then it will be difficult to progress.

 

[ccfcway]

Pressleys winning mentality has bought us

P 61
W 22
D 17
L 22

 

[stupot07]

Pressleys winning mentality has bought us

P 61
W 22
D 17
L 22

You keep posting these stats after every match. Are you thinking he should go?


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[ccfcway]

You keep posting these stats after every match. Are you thinking he should go?


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not at all. how on earth can one man successfully operate within the conditions he has been given. Everyone keeps arguing about the league table, (with or without the 10 points). I think its wrth noting his record since he come to us.

Thats all.

 

[covcity4life]

Yep, I said the same thing, we can call it an online mutual back slapping. It was a real shame when people genuinely thought we culd sneak a play off place despite the deduction, as it was obvious the squad size wouldn't be able to keep up the form for 46 league games. Young, inexperienced and lacking in 3 or 4 more 'bodies'.

We're a mid table side at the moment, nothing more, nothing less really.

I'd have probably taken where we currently are now, if you offered it to me in July 2013.

add on the 10 pts and we are not mid table though imo, we were close to playoffs with the deduction ffs

selling clarke and the dissapointment of being so close but never quite there because of -10 ruoned the season. the players would have been affected it.

not saying we would have made playoffs but i am just saying we will never know. just like i cant say we would have made playoffs people cant sit here and say, told you we were mid table! because the deduction hit us bad mentally too.

 

[stupot07]

not at all. how on earth can one man successfully operate within the conditions he has been given. Everyone keeps arguing about the league table, (with or without the 10 points). I think its wrth noting his record since he come to us.

Thats all.

Fair enough, just wondered. It's also worth remembering that he didn't have Clarke for the majority of the games he managed last season either.


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[The Gentleman]

Fair enough, just wondered. It's also worth remembering that he didn't have Clarke for the majority of the games he managed last season either.


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So are you saying that if he didn't strike it lucky (like Robins did with McGoldrick) with Clarke or Wilson then he isn't a very good manager?

 

[ccfcway]

So are you saying that if he didn't strike it lucky (like Robins did with McGoldrick) with Clarke or Wilson then he isn't a very good manager?

take the league top scorer out of any team and they will struggle more than they did.

Look at Bradford without Wells.

We didnt just lose Clarke, Wilson was injured but even now he is back, he is badly missing playing alongside a striker like clarke.

 

[The Gentleman]

take the league top scorer out of any team and they will struggle more than they did.

Look at Bradford without Wells.

We didnt just lose Clarke, Wilson was injured but even now he is back, he is badly missing playing alongside a striker like clarke.

A very good manager will get average players to over perform and will make them believe that they are that good. I will use Manchester United as an example (seeing as Stupot did last week). Alex Ferguson won the league easily last season with an average squad and two star strikers (who had injuries through the season) and David Moyes with almost the same squad (and 1 or 2 additions) has only managed what is likely to be 7th the following season.

I am not saying that Pressley is a crap manager because I do think he has promise but all this blowing smoke up his arse like he is some sort of genius manager is way off the mark.

 

[ccfcway]

I am not saying that Pressley is a crap manager because I do think he has promise but all this blowing smoke up his arse like he is some sort of genius manager is way off the mark.

P 61
W 22
D 17
L 22

I'd say he was average :thinking about:

 

[stupot07]

A very good manager will get average players to over perform and will make them believe that they are that good. I will use Manchester United as an example (seeing as Stupot did last week). Alex Ferguson won the league easily last season with an average squad and two star strikers (who had injuries through the season) and David Moyes with almost the same squad (and 1 or 2 additions) has only managed what is likely to be 7th the following season.

I am not saying that Pressley is a crap manager because I do think he has promise but all this blowing smoke up his arse like he is some sort of genius manager is way off the mark.

Van Persie features in all 38 PL games last season scoring 26 goals under fergie. This season he's featured in just 18 scoring 11 under Moyes.

Rooney played 27 times last season scoring 12 under under fergie v this season 28 times scoring 15 under Moyes.

Also aging Rio, Vidic and Evra look passed it and fergie relied a lot on giggs and scholes last season too.




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[The Gentleman]

Van Persie features in all 38 PL games last season scoring 26 goals under fergie. This season he's featured in just 18 scoring 11 under Moyes.

Rooney played 27 times last season scoring 12 under under fergie v this season 28 times scoring 15 under Moyes.

Also aging Rio, Vidic and Evra look passed it and fergie relied a lot on giggs and scholes last season too.




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I wondered what took you so long to come back with an answer. Fergie did not rely a lot on Scholes and Giggs as Scholes only played a total of 21 games in the season and Giggs 32 and that includes cups too. That is not relying on a lot now is it? You proved my point about very good managers getting the best out of an average squad by saying that Rio, Vidic and Evra all looked passed it but yet they still won the league with Fergie.

 

[stupot07]

I wondered what took you so long to come back with an answer. Fergie did not rely a lot on Scholes and Giggs as Scholes only played a total of 21 games in the season and Giggs 32 and that includes cups too. That is not relying on a lot now is it? You proved my point about very good managers getting the best out of an average squad by saying that Rio, Vidic and Evra all looked passed it but yet they still won the league with Fergie.

Which is nothing to do with having a fit and firing van persie playing a scoring all season last year? Whereas he's missed half of this season? So in away that proves my point.

Full season of the "key" striker Van Persie = win the league
Half a season of the "key" striker Van Persie = mediocrity.

That can be applied to us with and without Clarke.

And rio, vidic and Evra are all 1 year older than last season. And then you have to consider the fact that most of their rivals have significantly strengthened last January and the summer when fergie and Moyes failed to do so. It also says a lot about the under performance of some of their rivals last season.

Robbie savage was about right when he described the squad. http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/25665649




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[hill83]

It will also be our highest finish this year. Magnificent stuff, a joy to behold.

 

[The Gentleman]

Which is nothing to do with having a fit and firing van persie playing a scoring all season last year? Whereas he's missed half of this season? So in away that proves my point.

Full season of the "key" striker Van Persie = win the league
Half a season of the "key" striker Van Persie = mediocrity.

That can be applied to us with and without Clarke.

And rio, vidic and Evra are all 1 year older than last season. And then you have to consider the fact that most of their rivals have significantly strengthened last January and the summer when fergie and Moyes failed to do so. It also says a lot about the under performance of some of their rivals last season.

Robbie savage was about right when he described the squad. http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/25665649




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Sorry it's took a while to get back to you because I've been laughing my duck off that you try to use anything Robbie Savage says to prove a point, at least it cheered me up. Also made me chuckle in your comparison of Van Persie and Leon Clarke. Defenders age better than most other positions so one more season shouldn't make too much difference with the ones you mentioned. I'm still not quite sure what point you are trying to prove against mine to be honest when I said that a good manager will get the best and more out of a average squad which is what Fergie did (with Van persie like Pressley has had Clarke and Wilson) but Pressley has not managed to do that yet which is why to me the jury is still out. But when I read what you write about football I think back to your comment about Delfounseo being a very good signing for us. Even the people who really think they know it all don't.