ACL has "net value of nil" (35 Viewers)

[Godiva]

Yes, there were always going to be increased costs to having the Olympics, and were very unlikely to make a profit for ACL overall.

Said that all along, though many seemed to think that there would be huge profits made from holding the Olympics.

I seem to remember ACL calculating with a gross profit of £1m from the Olympics?

 

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[stupot07]

I seem to remember ACL calculating with a gross profit of £1m from the Olympics?

IIRC that was for 'infrastructure' and was argued by many on here as insignificant as it would all have been spent and therefore not contributing to profit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[lordsummerisle]

I seem to remember ACL calculating with a gross profit of £1m from the Olympics?

Didn't notice that in OSB's dissection:

[h=2]ACL group accounts 2013[/h]

Same approach as with the SBS&L Group. Facts/details from the group accounts not the individual companies. Any explanations that are mine are in italics

ACL is the holding company which owns Arena (2006) Ltd 100% (that company is there purely to hold the site lease) and 77% of IEC Experience Ltd which operates the functions, catering, events etc at the Ricoh (23% is owned by Compass who paid £4m in 2012 for the shares they have)

Directors Report
Describes the site, its major events in the year and the establishment of IEC Experience Ltd. The £4m from Compass was reinvested in to the site. Turnover up from £7.8m to 14.5m. (Would include the Olympics August 2012). Site employs 80 full time staff and 450 flexible contract staff. 41 more hotel rooms opened (total 121). Profit £775k (2012 £1.086m). Olympics though good also restricted normal trading for 3 months
Total value of the Yorkshire Bank loan and interest hedge was £19m and was settled by loan of 14.4m. Operations have been restructured and loss of ccfc income mitigated. Otium is required by FL to pay ACL £590k still not been paid

Auditors Report Clean audit report with no paragraph highlighting any auditors doubts about Going Concern. There is a note in the accounts from the directors highlighting how they have addressed the issue but the auditor is satisfied there is no material uncertainty that he needs to refer to. Auditor has to consider not less than 12 months from when he signs the report in this case to at least 26/02/15

Profit & Loss
- Turnover £14,490,703 compared to 7,782,519 in 2012
- direct costs have increased from 441,444 to 3,246,397 (I suspect there has been a change in how things operate between ACL and Compass that causes this in the group figures)
- administrative costs have also significantly increased from 5,261,107 to 10,189,173 (again possibly the effects of the new structure might even include some dispute costs plus some costs due to the Olympics (it isn't all about what came in there would be significant costs to pay for the event) but no real details
- there is an exceptional item of 475,761 that is the benefits of restructuring
- interest payable is down from 995,627 to 817,741. The new loan with its savings did not kick in until January 2013
- minority interests show a positive 60,994
- Bottom line is a profit of 775,465 compared to 1,086,886 in 2012

Balance Sheet
Fixed assets after additions disposals and depreciation are now 24,818,306 (2012 was 24,016,340)
there are net current assets of 1,457,051 including 852,940 at the bank (2012 3,778,488 and 3,876,141 respectively <would include effect of £4m from Compass>)
creditors falling due after more than 1 year 14,260,975 (2012 14,893,358)
Accruals and deferred income due after more than 1 year 4,705,789 (2012 6,307,348)
Net assets £7.3m (2012 6.6m)

Cash Flow Statement
shows Interest actually paid out in year 817,741 (2012 1,005,444)
Assets paid out for 2,155,002
Loan repaid £14,533,360
new loan 14,400,000

Notes to the Accounts
- Note regarding going concern made by the directors. Refers to CCFC leaving, the restructuring of overheads that will save estimated £700k pa and the new loan. Cash flows to 31/05/15 indicate that turnover is key to going concern
- staff costs for ACL group are 959,931 (2012 1,434,334) with a total of 18 employees (2012 - 23). The 80 staff and 450 flexible mentioned above I believe are mainly provided through Compass and charged to ACL
Directors fees are 170,673 (2012 256,907)but none of the directors representing the Council or Charity are paid (2012 £ nil)
-Interest payable is split in 2013 Bank £544,949 and other (CCC?) £272,792 In 2012 it was all Bank £995,267
- exceptional item is detailed as the benefit of a fundamental restructuring
- no tax to pay
- the lease owned is valued in the accounts at 18.8m
- there have been additions to Fixtures & Fittings 2.07m computers 77k and catering equipment 7k
- Council loan is detailed as £14,372,882 at an interest rate of 5%. Repayment is quarterly and it runs to December 2053 which ties in with the lease period
- included in Accruals and deferred income 2.7m in respect of the lease assignment on the casino that is being drawn down at 960k pa
- there are no capital commitments at 31/05/13
- Business Rates for the group payable to CCC are 530,986 (2012 299,935) with still to pay at 31/05/13 - 342,290 (2012 183,200)
- sales made to CCC in the year were £254,398 (2012 £876,658) of which 129,398 was still owed to ACL at 31/05/13
- similar details of CCC loan again in related party note stating it was at arms length and at a commercial rate
- 25/04/12 ACL sold the rights to provide hospitality, catering, and facilities management to IEC Experience for £4m (Compass bought in to IEC for £4m then IEC used money to buy the rights from ACL and ACL used that money to develop the complex further)
- ACL recharged expenses to IEC £1.9m (2012 395k) IEC recharged ACL 31k
- confirmation of escrow draw down of 315,218
- ACL controlled by North Coventry Holdings Ltd (100% subsidiary of CCC) and by Football Investors Ltd (100% subsidiary of Alan Edward Higgs Charity)

That's the bare bones.

Profit 775k, net assets £7.3m, loan from CCC 14.4m at 5% being repaid over 40 yrs
​

Though of course if that was the case, then would have made quite a considerable loss on usual activities with a declared actual profit of £775,000.

Probably.

I'm not an accountant, but know more than I've ever fucking wanted to know about accounts the last few years!

 

[The Gentleman]

I bet Sisu/Otium love this thread and hope it runs. Takes all the focus off their trading and loss making at Sixfields.

 

[Godiva]

25/04/12 ACL sold the rights to provide hospitality, catering, and facilities management to IEC Experience for £4m (Compass bought in to IEC for £4m then IEC used money to buy the rights from ACL and ACL used that money to develop the complex further)

Would that be accounted as turnover?

 

[torchomatic]

ACL will love your post too. Take the focus off them.

I bet Sisu/Otium love this thread and hope it runs. Takes all the focus off their trading and loss making at Sixfields.

 

[Jack Griffin]

I bet Sisu/Otium love this thread and hope it runs. Takes all the focus off their trading and loss making at Sixfields.

Yeah, I was just thinking that, why are people arguing about another company, CCFC is bleeding out millions every year & yet there is no discussion about that, instead we have a death wish for a company they effectively cut ties with that conversely is actually making money because they won't agree to bend over and do as SISU want.

 

[Godiva]

I bet Sisu/Otium love this thread and hope it runs. Takes all the focus off their trading and loss making at Sixfields.

I am sure there's enough threads about Sixfields and the cost of playing there.
But bringing it up here? Maybe it's you who are uncomfortable that all may not be well at ACL?

All is not well anywhere as long as ACL is not part of the club structure.

 

[The Gentleman]

ACL will love your post too. Take the focus off them.

That's what I get paid for, what's your excuse?

 

[oldskyblue58]

Would that be accounted as turnover?

In a word no

Compass bought shares in IEC ....... IEC used that money to buy a licence for the catering at Arena for 15 years........ ACL ltd received that money as a sale yes.

However when you put the group accounts together the transaction between IEC and ACL Ltd would contra out and be nil (a purchase in IEC and a sale in ACL Ltd becomes a nil in the ACL Group accounts)

The figures I analysed were the Group ones

the only new money was the funds from Compass and the sale of shares is not Trading Turnover.

 

[Grendel]

Yeah, I was just thinking that, why are people arguing about another company, CCFC is bleeding out millions every year & yet there is no discussion about that, instead we have a death wish for a company they effectively cut ties with that conversely is actually making money because they won't agree to bend over and do as SISU want.

Football clubs are often bleeding out millions. Most clubs I'm the premier league are totally dependant on sky revenues and still incur losses and have debt piled on them.

To my mind you spend a considerable amount of time and energy writing about and defending said management company and yet rarely comment on CCFC at all.

Odd that.

 

[sky blue john]

Football clubs are often bleeding out millions. Most clubs I'm the premier league are totally dependant on sky revenues and still incur losses and have debt piled on them.

To my mind you spend a considerable amount of time and energy writing about and defending said management company and yet rarely comment on CCFC at all.

Odd that.

Where as you babble shit about everything !!

 

[Grendel]

Where as you babble shit about everything !!

What an intelligent and well thought out reply.

I'm sure astute will like it.

 

[Astute]

Football clubs are often bleeding out millions. Most clubs I'm the premier league are totally dependant on sky revenues and still incur losses and have debt piled on them.

To my mind you spend a considerable amount of time and energy writing about and defending said management company and yet rarely comment on CCFC at all.

Odd that.

You're the premier league? :laugh:

 

[sky blue john]

What an intelligent and well thought out reply.

I'm sure astute will like it.

Personally I don't know who likes it or care who likes it. You set yourself up for it and I couldn't resist.

 

[Astute]

Personally I don't know who likes it or care who likes it. You set yourself up for it and I couldn't resist. 

Seems like he only comes on here to be liked and thinks we are all the same as him......although of a lower intelligence. He don't get much right does he

 

[lordsummerisle]

I bet Sisu/Otium love this thread and hope it runs. Takes all the focus off their trading and loss making at Sixfields.

As opposed to the enormous profits we were making whilst playing at The Ricoh of course.

 

[Grendel]

Seems like he only comes on here to be liked and thinks we are all the same as him......although of a lower intelligence. He don't get much right does he

If I wanted to be liked I would slavishly support CCC and ACL and suck up to certain posters. Bit like you.

I am finding your obsession with me somewhat curious. The latest penchant for picking up on minor spelling mistakes, grammar etc (which I will not correct on a phone) starting polls and giving me a rather infantile parody of my username does suggest huge insecurity. There is no need to feel insecure astute.

 

[Astute]

As opposed to the enormous profits we were making whilst playing at The Ricoh of course.

Oh yes. Forgot that it was ACL that gave the players contracts that paid them way too much. It is the fault of ACL that our club is somewhere around 50m upwards in debt whilst paying about 6m in rent whilst at the Ricoh.

 

[sky blue john]

The rent covered part of the ccfc losses !!
Remind me what the rest was down to ???
I do believe being told we were losing 500k a month by Sisu when at the Ricoh.
Even if ccfc owned the Ricoh and all the revenue by my calculations it still wouldn't
be enough to cover those sort of losses !!

 

[Godiva]

I bet Sisu/Otium love this thread and hope it runs. Takes all the focus off their trading and loss making at Sixfields.

I have to give you credit - it didn't take you much to completely derail this thread.
Well done.

 

[Astute]

If I wanted to be liked I would slavishly support CCC and ACL and suck up to certain posters. Bit like you.

I am finding your obsession with me somewhat curious. The latest penchant for picking up on minor spelling mistakes, grammar etc (which I will not correct on a phone) starting polls and giving me a rather infantile parody of my username does suggest huge insecurity. There is no need to feel insecure astute.

Me insecure? :laugh:

You are always on the attack. Or are you going to deny this? Each time you go on a personal attack on me you are going to get a bit back. But I keep it to the truth whereas you come out with crap as I showed earlier when you did one of your usual personal attacks on me.

You saying that you are premier league is now a minor spelling mistake is it?

I started a poll about you when you asked for one. Didn't get the replies you hoped for either did you?

And have you ever called me that funny name arsetute several times? Oh yes I get it now. You can come out with lots of crap and insults. It is OK. But you don't like it when you get a bit of it back.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Oh yes. Forgot that it was ACL that gave the players contracts that paid them way too much. It is the fault of ACL that our club is somewhere around 50m upwards in debt whilst paying about 6m in rent whilst at the Ricoh.

That's probably the fault of us, the fans, who demand that we spend more money on players wages than is brought in.

Probably paid closer to £10million at the Ricoh with all the excess "charges" since been there, and not a penny given back in cut of sales from F&B.

 

[Astute]

That's probably the fault of us, the fans, who demand that we spend more money on players wages than is brought in.

Agree with this in a way......but they still didn't have to do so. Must admit it was good watching some of the players we had over the years. But they ended up paying big money on big shite.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Football clubs are often bleeding out millions. Most clubs I'm the premier league are totally dependant on sky revenues and still incur losses and have debt piled on them.

To my mind you spend a considerable amount of time and energy writing about and defending said management company and yet rarely comment on CCFC at all.

Odd that.

I want SISU out.

I have no connection with ACL, CCC, any political party, any media outlet, any PR company, SISU or any of their agents.

Views are my own and I'm entitled to them.

Perhaps you'd better wear a tinfoil hat?

 

[The Gentleman]

I have to give you credit - it didn't take you much to completely derail this thread.
Well done.

You must be bothered by it as you've posted twice on a small comment. Completely derailed, get a grip FFS. Thanks for the credit though, means a lot coming from you.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Perhaps you'd better wear a tinfoil hat?

Winner of the most ironic comment of the month, and it's only the first!

 

[Jack Griffin]

Winner of the most ironic comment of the month, and it's only the first!

Not at all, you & G seem to subscribe to the conspiracy that SISU promotes in their PR, I'm waiting to hear the evidence in court & I am content to leave it to the Judge to sort out, whatever way it falls

 

[sky blue john]

If Sisu were given the Ricoh unencumbered what would they do ??
I believe they would reject it asking for the rest of Coventry as well !!!

My point being they can't be negotiated with in the real world !
Sisu can't get us back to the Ricoh !!

 

[torchomatic]

I love the use of the word "unencumbered". No one used to use it.

 

[lordsummerisle]

I love the use of the word "unencumbered". No one used to use it.

"Due diligence" is another one.

 

[Jack Griffin]

"Due diligence" is another one.

That's 2 words or a phrase if you like.

 

[The Gentleman]

I love the use of the word "unencumbered". No one used to use it.

Careful, Godiva is going to give you a right bollocking!

 

[skyblueinBaku]

A couple of seasons ago "gel' was the fashionable buzzword.

 

[chiefdave]

I love the use of the word "unencumbered". No one used to use it.

With everything we've had to learn about we must have the most intelligent fans in the country!