Fans Forum (9 Viewers)

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

It is good that they are talking - fair Play to them for that. If they are buying land as a plan A to fall back on, let's hope they get a good deal - one that works with or without a stadium. Joy majored in real estate and I would guess she therefore has some idea of property development. I would think that SISU could put a project together. If the soccer club got back to the Ricoh in the meantime, on a deal that at least enabled the 1,8 m interest to be paid to her investors for the time being, the pressure would be off. They could then concentrate on their exciting bew project in the Coventry area, hopefully creating some wealth from property development. If they can't get a permanent deal on the Ricoh - then back to plan A with a stadium.

There's a few Americanisms in there, most pertinently 'soccer club'. Do you work in America?

 

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[martcov]

There's a few Americanisms in there, most pertinently 'soccer club'. Do you work in America?

No. I follow a soccer club owned by US/ Cayman Isles companies and investors. Policy is set in American business culture terms.

 

[Jack Griffin]

At least they are trying to engage with fans.. they should know they have an awful lot to do to build fans trust up again.

As Tony said, both sides need to swallow a bit of pride and find some way to return to Ricoh, even if on a temporary basis. This would have to include some deal on revenue access, and SISU ensuring they pay their bills in full and on time.

There definitely has to be a sea change, current conditions are beyond choppy, pretty much hurricane force.

I still can't see anyone moving till this JR is out the way, fortunately not long to go.

 

[dongonzalos]

I think negotiations will start again once the JR is over.

 

[dongonzalos]

Next up JS.

If it happens I intend to ask similar questions as above.

See if the answers tally up.

Any serious questions you want asking that is reasonable and I understand, I will ask if I can.

 

[shmmeee]

Next up JS.

If it happens I intend to ask similar questions as above.

See if the answers tally up.

Any serious questions you want asking that is reasonable and I understand, I will ask if I can.

What are her plans for fan engagement once this is all over? Does she recognise it's important?
Why can the club say things in private but not in public? Is it a legal issue with what they are saying?
Has she undergone the fit and proper person's test?
Does she understand the impact on fan relations her decision to stay "private" has? Did she not expect to lose a certain amount of privacy moving into such a publicity filled industry?
Why not ask for land in Coventry when looking for a new stadium?

 

[dongonzalos]

What are her plans for fan engagement once this is all over? Does she recognise it's important?
Why can the club say things in private but not in public? Is it a legal issue with what they are saying?
Has she undergone the fit and proper person's test?
Does she understand the impact on fan relations her decision to stay "private" has? Did she not expect to lose a certain amount of privacy moving into such a publicity filled industry?
Why not ask for land in Coventry when looking for a new stadium?

On the last one TF said the only land big enough in Coventry was courtaulds. However I never bothered asking why they are not going for it as I assume they will say they can't deal with CCC

With all due respect she won't fail the test.

Good question re future engagement

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Well the meeting that I attended he did say that they were going to push for promotion! But we have all heard that before and Only time will tell.
Also said some more about the ground but swore us to secrecy.:thinking about:
So will have to leave that for now.

Fair play for you actually going one-on-one with TF.

Did he say anything about team investment and ambitions next season?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

That question was asked at the meeting I attended he said they did inquire and fancied it but the owners wouldn't sell as they have there own Ideas for the land.

On the last one TF said the only land big enough in Coventry was courtaulds. However I never bothered asking why they are not going for it as I assume they will say they can't deal with CCC

With all due respect she won't fail the test.

Good question re future engagement

 

[dongonzalos]

That question was asked at the meeting I attended he said they did inquire and fancied it but the owners wouldn't sell as they have there own Ideas for the land.

Cheers lets

Wonder what plans there are for that site

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well I had my meet.

We still disagree on the ground concept. TF could not convince me on that one.
He still maintains its happening however when you discuss figures the Ricoh is still far more viable. IMO.

It seems they are still buying the land and the idea is to develop it to try and multiply the value.

The club are still open to negotiating with the council once the JR is over.
He states the JR is not going to bring an automatic solution.
Also the club are not adverse to negotiating a temporary tenure at the Ricoh as well.

(So all fans groups should push for that IMO)

He was a good chap. Says he will meet any fans anytime. FairPlay on this occasion he certainly did.

He talked a lot about the football side of things and surprisingly came across as very passionate.

Says JS is also meeting fans bit by bit.

( I forgot to ask if she will be at the fans forum)

Nothing ground breaking to report.

However he surprised me with his football knowledge.

I felt a bit more reassured that these talks in whatever format they take will have to happen at some point.

Good, then they should admit that dragging the club to Sixfields has been an expensive waste of everyone's time and get on the phone to ACL.

 

[wingy]

Well the meeting that I attended he did say that they were going to push for promotion! But we have all heard that before and Only time will tell.
Also said some more about the ground but swore us to secrecy.:thinking about:
So will have to leave that for now.

What ground ?? Share enough of this privileged Info.

 

[Calista]

Next up JS.

If it happens I intend to ask similar questions as above.

See if the answers tally up.

Any serious questions you want asking that is reasonable and I understand, I will ask if I can.

If SISU got ownership of the Ricoh, would the much-talked-about revenues be ploughed into a prosperous and successful football club? Or at the other end of the scale, would the football be kept alive on basic life support, whilst the anonymous investors slowly clawed back their lost money through interest payments and property deals?

I imagine the reality would be somewhere in between, but as far as I recall they have never spelt this out so nobody knows. Clarity from the owners about this would be great.

By way of background, I believe Tim Fisher said at the recent SCG “the real value is not just in the stadium but land enablement and what is around it”. I don’t think revenues like that can be fed into the football club under FFP rules, so they are irrelevant to us - but I’d be happy for someone to correct me.

 

[Ian1779]

If SISU got ownership of the Ricoh, would the much-talked-about revenues be ploughed into a prosperous and successful football club? Or at the other end of the scale, would the football be kept alive on basic life support, whilst the anonymous investors slowly clawed back their lost money through interest payments and property deals?

I imagine the reality would be somewhere in between, but as far as I recall they have never spelt this out so nobody knows. Clarity from the owners about this would be great.

By way of background, I believe Tim Fisher said at the recent SCG “the real value is not just in the stadium but land enablement and what is around it”. I don’t think revenues like that can be fed into the football club under FFP rules, so they are irrelevant to us - but I’d be happy for someone to correct me.

There is a proportion (but certainly not all) that can be classed as revenues - to do with use of direct location, club branding etc, I imagine that if they were to get hold of it, there would be sufficient revenues split between those what would and would not included in any football revenue calculation. I would think that the football revenues would be enough to keep us competitive at L1/Champ level.

Realistically - the investors will never get a return unless we make it to the PL. So it would be in their interest to ensure that the football club is properly funded to maximise the chances of this happening.

 

[skybluetony176]

There is a proportion (but certainly not all) that can be classed as revenues - to do with use of direct location, club branding etc, I imagine that if they were to get hold of it, there would be sufficient revenues split between those what would and would not included in any football revenue calculation. I would think that the football revenues would be enough to keep us competitive at L1/Champ level.

Realistically - the investors will never get a return unless we make it to the PL. So it would be in their interest to ensure that the football club is properly funded to maximise the chances of this happening.

They ain't even going to get that return in the premiership if the debt is to be taken as the investment and even less likely if the debt is on top of their investment.

Look at what Mohamad Al Fayed paid for Fulham, what he ploughed in, in interest free loans and what he sold it for. He made a loss on those figures and they were an established premiership side sitting in prime London real estate.

 

[Jack Griffin]

What ground ?? Share enough of this privileged Info.

More talk & attempts to divide the fanbase with secrets to keep.

Till land is boughht, planning applied for and granted and finance ploughed into a construction contract there is no ground, the plug can be pulled anytime.
I've seen many projects talked up by their initiators bite the dust due to 'late hitches' 'lack of finance'. Till there is concrete progress it is just positive spin.

 

[dongonzalos]

More talk & attempts to divide the fanbase with secrets to keep.

Till land is boughht, planning applied for and granted and finance ploughed into a construction contract there is no ground, the plug can be pulled anytime.
I've seen many projects talked up by their initiators bite the dust due to 'late hitches' 'lack of finance'. Till there is concrete progress it is just positive spin.

I can't talk for anyone else or what meetings they have had.

I asked for a meet I got it. I get the impression they will do that with anyone.

I was not told anything secret and not told not to speak about what I got told. I think apart from what letts just said. Other fans have said they chose themselves not to mention it as oppose to the club telling them not to to be fair.

Also in all honesty I can't image the club telling a joe blogs fan something they really don't want to get out there ( prehaps Letts is too honourable )

 

[dongonzalos]

More talk & attempts to divide the fanbase with secrets to keep.

Till land is boughht, planning applied for and granted and finance ploughed into a construction contract there is no ground, the plug can be pulled anytime.
I've seen many projects talked up by their initiators bite the dust due to 'late hitches' 'lack of finance'. Till there is concrete progress it is just positive spin.

Also on the other mater you buy land get planning permission and either sell it or build the retail park minus the stadium you are unlikely to lose.

 

[martcov]

Also on the other mater you buy land get planning permission and either sell it or build the retail park minus the stadium you are unlikely to lose.

I would say that property development is more Joy's line of work as that is what she studied - "real estate". They have also invested a lot of time and money and engaged professionals to find a suitable site for development.

Much better prepared to buy land and develop it than they were when jumping into a deal to buy CCFC with very little preparation and no proper "due diligence".

 

[martcov]

They don't need to build a stadium if they have done their homework properly - that idea can be held up to put the council under pressure to gain some money back from the soccer/ football project.

 

[Ian1779]

They ain't even going to get that return in the premiership if the debt is to be taken as the investment and even less likely if the debt is on top of their investment.

Look at what Mohamad Al Fayed paid for Fulham, what he ploughed in, in interest free loans and what he sold it for. He made a loss on those figures and they were an established premiership side sitting in prime London real estate.

Even 5 years ago I would agree - but now with the amount of TV revenue coming in - Cardiff got £62m for finishing bottom. I think it will get higher with more competition coming from the US/Far East markets.... (before the arse falls out of it in 15 years)

2 years in the Prem, or even a 3yr yo-yo like West Brom and they would have the most of it back.

 

[The Gentleman]

Even 5 years ago I would agree - but now with the amount of TV revenue coming in - Cardiff got £62m for finishing bottom. I think it will get higher with more competition coming from the US/Far East markets.... (before the arse falls out of it in 15 years)

2 years in the Prem, or even a 3yr yo-yo like West Brom and they would have the most of it back.

Can you honestly see us getting to the PL anytime soon?

 

[Ian1779]

Can you honestly see us getting to the PL anytime soon?

It's a dream I know.... It would take an awful lot of investment, fuck loads of luck and a massive sea change in attitude and commitment.

But why the fuck not?

 

[dongonzalos]

I think it is more likely if their genuine plan involves a successful football club. The highest they can afford to aim for is a sustainable agreement to be at the Ricoh. Then somehow get the club in touching distance of the championship play offs. Then sell to someone prepared to take the gamble.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Even 5 years ago I would agree - but now with the amount of TV revenue coming in - Cardiff got £62m for finishing bottom. I think it will get higher with more competition coming from the US/Far East markets.... (before the arse falls out of it in 15 years)

2 years in the Prem, or even a 3yr yo-yo like West Brom and they would have the most of it back.

Yes, but if you look at promoted Championship clubs turnover v s salary it may cost £50M+ to get there & even then that is a gamble.
Remember this is a hugely competitive field and the relegated clubs have large parachute payments.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Good on you Don for taking the time to talk with TF etc then reporting back

As I understand it there will be a fans forum at end of June. It would seem to be targeted at telling the fans what has gone on from year dot and "could" include "discussion" of the finances. I can not see that the other key players will see the need to attend this event so it will be somewhat one sided. Fair enough they are putting the event on but like many others I think we are well past what happened when and by who. The history will have been done to death in the Courts, newspapers, forums etc by then. Not interested in the blame game any more . People messed up but that can not be changed. What this forum should be about is a clear unequivocable explanation of the way forward from here for CCFC. We need proper detail and evidence that our club is in safe hands.

Courtaulds site - safe for TF to mention, there is already planning permission on that site, which was reported February 2013 http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/new-jobs-courtaulds-site-development-3014335

If you are meeting Seppala see if you can get her to answer the questions on the finances the Trust asked 16/03/14 and as far as I know were never replied to.

 

[skybluetony176]

Even 5 years ago I would agree - but now with the amount of TV revenue coming in - Cardiff got £62m for finishing bottom. I think it will get higher with more competition coming from the US/Far East markets.... (before the arse falls out of it in 15 years)

2 years in the Prem, or even a 3yr yo-yo like West Brom and they would have the most of it back.

I take your point and it is a good point but i counter that with Boltons financial troubles after only 6 months in the championship http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25559504

If we could get to the dizzy heights of the premiership with no further added debt sisu's investors would have a chance when the fact is they are going to have to spend a shed load to get there in the first place and with the constraints of FFP and the way Sisu are decimating the fan base chances are they wont be able to spend enough even if they wanted to.

[edit] just to add. it will be interesting to see how the books of the teams relegated look when the books that cover their premiership season(s) are available. just because they earnt £60 odd million in TV rights doesn't mean they are making money or covering historic debt.

 

[shmmeee]

On the last one TF said the only land big enough in Coventry was courtaulds. However I never bothered asking why they are not going for it as I assume they will say they can't deal with CCC

With all due respect she won't fail the test.

Good question re future engagement

The question about the test is whether the FL recognise her as owner, not whether she passes.

I'd like to see the club ask the council about land anyway. I don't the idea of playing in Nuneaton. South Cov maybe.

 

[The Gentleman]

It's a dream I know.... It would take an awful lot of investment, fuck loads of luck and a massive sea change in attitude and commitment.

But why the fuck not?

Was it a very good bank holiday weekend on the beer then?

 

[Ian1779]

Was it a very good bank holiday weekend on the beer then?

Has the weekend finished yet?

 

[dongonzalos]

The question about the test is whether the FL recognise her as owner, not whether she passes.

I'd like to see the club ask the council about land anyway. I don't the idea of playing in Nuneaton. South Cov maybe.

TF said Courthaulds is the only one big enough for what they want.
He told Letts the owner will not sell.

Who do you think the FL have as the owner?
Where would I be going with this question?
Ie what is my angle for asking it?

 

[dongonzalos]

Good on you Don for taking the time to talk with TF etc then reporting back

As I understand it there will be a fans forum at end of June. It would seem to be targeted at telling the fans what has gone on from year dot and "could" include "discussion" of the finances. I can not see that the other key players will see the need to attend this event so it will be somewhat one sided. Fair enough they are putting the event on but like many others I think we are well past what happened when and by who. The history will have been done to death in the Courts, newspapers, forums etc by then. Not interested in the blame game any more . People messed up but that can not be changed. What this forum should be about is a clear unequivocable explanation of the way forward from here for CCFC. We need proper detail and evidence that our club is in safe hands.

Courtaulds site - safe for TF to mention, there is already planning permission on that site, which was reported February 2013 http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/new-jobs-courtaulds-site-development-3014335

If you are meeting Seppala see if you can get her to answer the questions on the finances the Trust asked 16/03/14 and as far as I know were never replied to.

I will have a read of them again.
However that's where I would likely get in over my head. I will struggle to develop the discussion once they provided an answer.

I agree with you the past is a waste of time.

Any meeting I get as I did with TF. I want to focus on the future.

Plans after the JR
When are you going to pick the phone up re the Ricoh.
If she still insists a new stadium is plan A when are you coming back to the Ricoh temporarily and if not why not.
Finances for the new stadium
If land is bought can it be developed purely for retail. If a deal is reached for the Ricoh etc etc.....

 

[shmmeee]

TF said Courthaulds is the only one big enough for what they want.
He told Letts the owner will not sell.

Who do you think the FL have as the owner?
Where would I be going with this question?
Ie what is my angle for asking it?

It's about Joy's position as a shadow director, but also about who actually owns our club and makes the decisions on it's future. Joy seemed to claim before that she wasn't involved in the day to day running for things like the rent strike, so was it Inye Ogwe (or whatever his name was) or Ranson in the first place? If it's her now, has that fact been recorded with the FL or is Fisher the official "owner". Or is it no-one because it's the investors. Leading from there is really the why not the organ grinder instead of the monkey angle. Basically, don't the fans deserve to speak to the person having such a huge impact on their lives?

Courtalds is by me, it's being turned into housing (eventually). Like I say, I'd have thought somewhere down by the airport or near Warwick Uni would be a possibility. I also have a sneaking suspicion that the "minimum required size" chosen was one that was too big to be close to Coventry, but that's just the cynic speaking in me.

 

[duffer]

It's about Joy's position as a shadow director, but also about who actually owns our club and makes the decisions on it's future. Joy seemed to claim before that she wasn't involved in the day to day running for things like the rent strike, so was it Inye Ogwe (or whatever his name was) or Ranson in the first place? If it's her now, has that fact been recorded with the FL or is Fisher the official "owner". Or is it no-one because it's the investors. Leading from there is really the why not the organ grinder instead of the monkey angle. Basically, don't the fans deserve to speak to the person having such a huge impact on their lives?

Courtalds is by me, it's being turned into housing (eventually). Like I say, I'd have thought somewhere down by the airport or near Warwick Uni would be a possibility. I also have a sneaking suspicion that the "minimum required size" chosen was one that was too big to be close to Coventry, but that's just the cynic speaking in me.

The airport's green belt, I think. Hence all of the hoo-hah about the planned development there, and the supposed 14,000 jobs.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/ne...c-inquiry-controversial-250m-coventry-7140101

Given that's been called in for public enquiry I'm not sure there's much scope for a new stadium there. This will, of course, be SISU's big problem. Even if they can buy enough land somewhere in leafy warwickshire outside Coventry, getting planning permission isn't a given. (Appreciate you already know this, btw, just pointing the flaws in the new stadium plan).

 

[shmmeee]

I realise I'm tilting at windmills a bit here, I just really don't want us to move significantly outside the city. I find it hard to think that a place like Coventry hasn't got a spare bit of land to build a development on. Having a look though, they may be right.