One for Rob S and the Trust? (9 Viewers)

[MichaelCCFC]

FAQs about kcic below, revised/finalised in the light of various comments - and thanks to those (here and on FB etc) who did so. Don't know if Rob S and Trust are up for doing the same but would be helpful in seeing where the common ground is (and points of disagreement). Not everyone agrees with kcic but at least I'd hope for everyone it's 100% clear where we stand and what we're doing!





FAQs ABOUT KEEP COV IN COV (KCIC)


In a nutshell, what is kcic about?


· kcic is a 100% peaceful but focused and determined campaign which says Coventry City FC belongs at the Ricoh Arena and opposes CCFC games being played at Northampton Town FC
· The kcic view is: the interests of the team and fans should come before politics and profits; acl and Coventry City Council have questions to answer but sisu are primarily responsible for the move to NTFC; we would be better off owning the Ricoh but sisu are not good for CCFC and cannot be trusted; for a successful and sustainable future we need a new fan led ownership model, working alongside co-investors


How was kcic set up?


· An individual fan set up the old Not One Penny More campaign
· As NOPM grew it became unmanageable for one person so he asked the Sky Blue Trust to take it over, which it did in May 2013
· With the announcement of the move to NTFC, NOPM became a tactic within a broader Keep Cov in Cov campaign
· The Trust then decided it wanted to separate off the kcic campaign and made it an independent group


How many members does kcic have?

· kcic operates on an entirely informal basis with no membership system
· Ideas are discussed via social media and e-mail, with people then helping out as and when they can
· What kcic does is down to the hundreds (possibly thousands?) of people who have helped with and become involved in different events and activities

How is kcic funded?

· Some City fans have very generously helped out with the cost of posters and so on
· The biggest contributions have been from people doing things like printing leaflets and producing banners completely free of charge
· A lot of people were asking about having a kcic t-shirt so that’s been set up and we now get commission of £2/£3 on each sale


Where does kcic stand on the acl-sisu dispute?

· kcic is pro team and pro fan and has never bought into being pro/anti acl/sisu




Does kcic think fans are divided because of the acl-sisu dispute?

· Of course there are disagreements but there is a lot more unity than some people claim
· The real story is that City fans have acted with great dignity and respect - the atmosphere at away games has been great – and if we were as divided as some people say there would have been a lot more than a couple of bits of verbals at games
· kcic has put a lot of time and effort into listening to City supporters and is confident that its view is that of an overwhelming majority - there are people at the extremes of the situation but they are tiny minorities


Does kcic support a new stadium being built?

· No
· The Ricoh’s our home and that’s where we want to be


Does kcic support a new ‘AFC Coventry/Phoenix’ Club?

· No
· Around Christmas time a lot of people were asking about this so we looked at it but rejected the idea
· We can still support the team at away games and that is what matters




kcic Highlights?


● the ‘Why’ event at Arsenal (which was a testament to the hard work of a lot of unsung heroes) ● the follow-up at Notts County ● keeping the CCFC story in the spotlight last summer, when things had gone very flat after the march ● the NTFC boycott which has by far and away attracted the most interest and support for our plight ● the www.FixFootball.co.uk ePetition for an Independent Inquiry is the biggest by far of the various CCFC petitions ● listening to the views of City fans through polls and surveys ● doing any positive things we can: at one event we raised money for the Alzheimer’s Society; we have contributed to grass roots football in Coventry by sponsoring a non league team’s away kit; kcic t-shirts are now being supplied by a local start-up company called Bluddog whose shop is appropriately just a stone’s throw from the Ricoh


What next for kcic?

· Continue supporting the boycott of NTFC and go to away games - as Danny Kelly said in awarding City supporters the title of Fans of the Year, by boycotting NTFC but going to away games we’ve got a way of supporting the team but not the owners
· Continue the hard slog of pushing thewww.FixFootball.co.uk ePetition as the best way of getting an Independent Inquiry into the CCFC fiasco and to call to account all those responsible
· Promote kcic t-shirts as a way of spreading the kcic message and generating some income
· But at the moment, like everyone else, we are awaiting the outcome of the Judicial Review and will decide on the next phase of the campaign then



PUSB!

 

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[SkyblueBazza]

Sorry to have to say this but this appears to me to be a very split nutshell!
1st paragraph puts it simply & would get an awful lot more people on board in itself. You go on to confuse it with ulterior motives in the next paragraph saying "SISU are not good for CCFC..." & talk of new fan-led ownership. That'll lose or at least worry a few!
Then it's a contradiction in the "Where does KCIC stand on the ACL-SISU dispute?" You suggest KCIC has never bought into being pro or anti ACL/SISU having already implied KCIC is anti-SISU
That confusion & contradictions are going to be a source of debate & concern for a lot of people. Playing in Coventry is not the stated aim/focus it appears...playing at the Ricoh under new fan-led ownership IS if I'm reading it right. If SISU bought a site in the City centre & bought the club home - would that not be enough? Maybe a rethink on the acronym is needed - KCATRUFLO (Keep Coventry at the Ricoh under fan led ownership)
Tbh those are the things that glared at me...the rest is simply emotive stuff by the look.




PUSB

 

[MichaelCCFC]

Sorry to have to say this but this appears to me to be a very split nutshell!
1st paragraph puts it simply & would get an awful lot more people on board in itself. You go on to confuse it with ulterior motives in the next paragraph saying "SISU are not good for CCFC..." & talk of new fan-led ownership. That'll lose or at least worry a few!
Then it's a contradiction in the "Where does KCIC stand on the ACL-SISU dispute?" You suggest KCIC has never bought into being pro or anti ACL/SISU having already implied KCIC is anti-SISU
That confusion & contradictions are going to be a source of debate & concern for a lot of people. Playing in Coventry is not the stated aim/focus it appears...playing at the Ricoh under new fan-led ownership IS if I'm reading it right. If SISU bought a site in the City centre & bought the club home - would that not be enough? Maybe a rethink on the acronym is needed - KCATRUFLO (Keep Coventry at the Ricoh under fan led ownership)
Tbh those are the things that glared at me...the rest is simply emotive stuff by the look.




PUSB

There's already been a thread on this so don't want to go over old ground but quick points are -

Sorry to have to say this but this appears to me to be a very split nutshell!
1st paragraph puts it simply & would get an awful lot more people on board in itself. You go on to confuse it with ulterior motives in the next paragraph saying "SISU are not good for CCFC..." & talk of new fan-led ownership. That'll lose or at least worry a few Not everyone agrees but that's the kcic view. If others think sisu are good for ccfc, can be trusted etc that's their choice - as I say, this is just setting out the kcic position so it's clear for everyone to see
Then it's a contradiction in the "Where does KCIC stand on the ACL-SISU dispute?" You suggest KCIC has never bought into being pro or anti ACL/SISU having already implied KCIC is anti-SISU Some people seem to be solely pro/anti acl/sisu and from the early days picked a 'side' they were on. kcic never did that but asks questions and is critical of all relevant parties eg this Friday's kcic event is at the FL and the petition aim is to call to account all those responsible
That confusion & contradictions are going to be a source of debate & concern for a lot of people. Playing in Coventry is not the stated aim/focus it appears...playing at the Ricoh under new fan-led ownership IS if I'm reading it right. If SISU bought a site in the City centre & bought the club home - would that not be enough? I'd love a city centre ground! But to move forward we need to start cutting through the bs and stop debating hypotheticals and what ifs. We have a stadium in Coventry which is our home and that's where we need to be ? Maybe a rethink on the acronym is needed - KCATRUFLO (Keep Coventry at the Ricoh under fan led ownership)
Tbh those are the things that glared at me...the rest is simply emotive stuff by the look to be fair, it's written in a factual style not emotive

 

[AndreasB]

Why do you constantly include statements below which are nothing but inflamatory and divisive? Makes you look like a jaundiced and nutty one man band and until you amend this type of language thats all you will remain Im afraid.

· The kcic view is: the interests of the team and fans should come before politics and profits; acl and Coventry City Council have questions to answer but sisu are primarily responsible for the move to NTFC; we would be better off owning the Ricoh but sisu are not good for CCFC and cannot be trusted; for a successful and sustainable future we need a new fan led ownership model, working alongside co-investors

 

[MichaelCCFC]

Why do you constantly include statements below which are nothing but inflamatory and divisive? Makes you look like a jaundiced and nutty one man band and until you amend this type of language thats all you will remain Im afraid.

· The kcic view is: the interests of the team and fans should come before politics and profits; acl and Coventry City Council have questions to answer but sisu are primarily responsible for the move to NTFC; we would be better off owning the Ricoh but sisu are not good for CCFC and cannot be trusted; for a successful and sustainable future we need a new fan led ownership model, working alongside co-investors

The opposite would have to read something like: "profit and politics should come before the team and fans; acl have no questions to answer; sisu are good for ccfc; we just need to trust sisu and the next rich guy who decides to buy the club (because previous owners since the mid 90s were so great)". If someone wants to argue that, that's up to them but not sure too many would agree

 

[Covstu]

Hmm i would agree slightly with AndreasB view. KCIC was always an entity that i understood and to the main followed however this has slightly moved to a merge between KCIC and NOPM which references to getting SISU out, not wanting the new ground (what happens if it is in Cov city centre?) etc. My understanding of KCIC at the start was to just purely get us back to Coventry (as the title suggests) not battling on all fronts?

I believe the emphasis of the 'mission' has changed and the message got a little muddy...

Just my opinion of course!!

 

[MichaelCCFC]

Hmm i would agree slightly with AndreasB view. KCIC was always an entity that i understood and to the main followed however this has slightly moved to a merge between KCIC and NOPM which references to getting SISU out, not wanting the new ground (what happens if it is in Cov city centre?) etc. My understanding of KCIC at the start was to just purely get us back to Coventry (as the title suggests) not battling on all fronts?

I believe the emphasis of the 'mission' has changed and the message got a little muddy...

Just my opinion of course!!

"not wanting the new ground (what happens if it is in Cov city centre?)" Pretty confident that ain't gonna happen! Let's get real - we have a home ground already so let's get back to it not waste time on city centre or 101 other possible 'what if' sites which to be fair gets us nowhere

 

[The Gentleman]

Why do you constantly include statements below which are nothing but inflamatory and divisive? Makes you look like a jaundiced and nutty one man band and until you amend this type of language thats all you will remain Im afraid.

· The kcic view is: the interests of the team and fans should come before politics and profits; acl and Coventry City Council have questions to answer but sisu are primarily responsible for the move to NTFC; we would be better off owning the Ricoh but sisu are not good for CCFC and cannot be trusted; for a successful and sustainable future we need a new fan led ownership model, working alongside co-investors

Do you trust Sisu? do you hold Sisu accountable for anything?

 

[Covstu]

"not wanting the new ground (what happens if it is in Cov city centre?)" Pretty confident that ain't gonna happen! Let's get real - we have a home ground already so let's get back to it not waste time on city centre or 101 other possible 'what if' sites which to be fair gets us nowhere

I totally agree Michael that it is fantasy but there you have it in your statement above?? So if this is the route KCIC are taking then surely the emphasis should be on proving/disproving the existance of said ground (or location)??

 

[Jack Griffin]

Do you trust Sisu? do you hold Sisu accountable for anything?

I was thinking we should do a poll on trustworthiness of SISU. What d'ya think?

 

[AndreasB]

The opposite would have to read something like: "profit and politics should come before the team and fans; acl have no questions to answer; sisu are good for ccfc; we just need to trust sisu and the next rich guy who decides to buy the club (because previous owners since the mid 90s were so great)". If someone wants to argue that, that's up to them but not sure too many would agree

Why are you always looking to apportion blame? Im not especially impressed with SISU or ACL or the Council but Im also not obsessed by name calling and witchhunts. By boxing yourself into a corner like this you lose a lot of potential support both in the fanbase and the media. Fan based ownership sounds grand as a long term ambition but you cant really articulate it and doent really have anything to do with your intent to be "focussed" on bringing Coventry back to Coventry. Really want to support what you are trying to do but you dont seem to listen and your emails become a litany of random soundbites.

1. Get yourself a really inclusive strapline - cut out all the blame nonsence
2. Work out a strategy - playing around in social media is fine but you need to ask why CT journalists, national press and the local BBC dont really support a position which is after all a no brainer
3. Join up with the Trust and the back to Ricoh bunch and agree an aligned position - we all want the same thing I think
4. Review your communications - if there is nothing to be said then dont say anything
5. Dont rush to judgements - let the JR happen and really understand the implications before firing off your next move.

 

[AndreasB]

Do you trust Sisu? do you hold Sisu accountable for anything?

yep loads and the council and ACL but Michael isnt really holding them to account is he? he is just saying he doesnt trust them which just sounds juvenile and petty.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

I totally agree Michael that it is fantasy but there you have it in your statement above?? So if this is the route KCIC are taking then surely the emphasis should be on proving/disproving the existance of said ground (or location)??

sisu have played a blinder on the new ground because without taking a single concrete step this has acted as a huge focus and it's impossible to prove a negative ie it's impossible to prove they won't build a ground. It was a comment on here on the draft that made me rethink it and rather than trying to prove the impossible maybe the way to cut through the bs is to say 'thanks, but no thanks', we've already got a home and returning to it is the issue.

 

[Grendel]

The kcic campaign seems to have getting rid of sisu as priority number one. Its seems it world rather the club languish in Northampton than support sisu ground ownership.

I would have thought returning to Coventry would be its only concern.

 

[Matty_CCFC]

What Michael ties to do should be praised not ridiculed.
Might not agree with everything he does but at least Michael tries to look at all sides and is prepared to put his neck on the line, most on here just take the piss and sit on there arse (me included) and do nothing.
I personally do not live in Coventry but at same time cannot sit on the fence and say I am anti anyone but SISU, can someone explain to me why I should blame your Council for our situation at present?
We are a laughing stock due to our owners.

 

[AndreasB]

What Michael ties to do should be praised not ridiculed.
Might not agree with everything he does but at least Michael tries to look at all sides and is prepared to put his neck on the line, most on here just take the piss and sit on there arse (me included) and do nothing.
I personally do not live in Coventry but at same time cannot sit on the fence and say I am anti anyone but SISU, can someone explain to me why I should blame your Council for our situation at present?
We are a laughing stock due to our owners.

Where is he "putting his neck on the line?" would like him to do that and come out against any of his chums and ex colleagues on the Council for a start.

 

[Matty_CCFC]

Where is he "putting his neck on the line?" would like him to do that and come out against any of his chums and ex colleagues on the Council for a start.

What are you on about?

 

[MichaelCCFC]

Originally Posted by AndreasB
Where is he "putting his neck on the line?" would like him to do that and come out against any of his chums and ex colleagues on the Council for a start.



What are you on about?

What are you on about?

I'd love to know!

 

[skybluetony176]

The kcic campaign seems to have getting rid of sisu as priority number one. Its seems it world rather the club languish in Northampton than support sisu ground ownership.

I would have thought returning to Coventry would be its only concern.

we're all still waiting for your master plan to make this happen. you apparently know axactly what wont work, the flip side to that is you must know what will work. so please share it with the group and no fantasies about the council handing sisu the keys for free, i'm talking about a real and possible solution.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

I was thinking we should do a poll on trustworthiness of SISU. What d'ya think?

Just as there are some posters who seem unable to bear criticism of the council so there are some who seem unable to bear criticism of sisu. The latter never seem to make the case that sisu are good for ccfc and can be trusted, they just deflect/divert things. I'd love to be proved wrong and have someone make the case for why sisu are good for ccfc, why we should trust them and how we have a positive future with them as owners. Someone? Anyone?

 

[Nick]

Michael, maybe it is because nobody is disagreeing that SISU aren't good for CCFC which is why you keep going on and on about that one point like a broken record whenever anybody disagrees with anything you say because if anything is questioned you use that as some sort of shit comeback / reply.

 

[torchomatic]

Michael, no one thinks SISU are good for our club.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[covmark]

Just as there are some posters who seem unable to bear criticism of the council so there are some who seem unable to bear criticism of sisu. The latter never seem to make the case that sisu are good for ccfc and can be trusted, they just deflect/divert things. I'd love to be proved wrong and have someone make the case for why sisu are good for ccfc, why we should trust them and how we have a positive future with them as owners. Someone? Anyone?

For me getting rid of SISU can wait, the priority must be the club returning home. Nick has a point we don't need 'SISU are bad for the club' rammed down our throats every 5 minutes, we already know this. Every mailout seems to contain the same stuff over and over. Your efforts should be applauded but maybe you should take on board some of the criticism thats given to you, instead of going on the defensive all the time.

 

[Grendel]

Just as there are some posters who seem unable to bear criticism of the council so there are some who seem unable to bear criticism of sisu. The latter never seem to make the case that sisu are good for ccfc and can be trusted, they just deflect/divert things. I'd love to be proved wrong and have someone make the case for why sisu are good for ccfc, why we should trust them and how we have a positive future with them as owners. Someone? Anyone?

Sisy aren't good for the club. However, when I last looked they own it and therefore control our destiny. Sticking your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes will not change that fact.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

Torch and Covmark - thanks for replies that deal with the issue rather than Andreas style nonsense. kcic proposed a 'make the call joy' approach for sisu to accept the rental offer that was shown to be better than playing at sixfields but that got shot down by people saying it was a waste of time because sisu don't want a rental deal, meaning the only option for a return is sisu ownership of the ricoh. But in trying to put together a campaign narrative (which is what the FAQs - the original point of this thread! - effectively tried to do) it's neither logical nor persuasive to say on the one hand our owner is no good for ccfc and is untrustworthy but on the other we want them to own the ricoh!

 

[limoncello]

Are we back to the 'Sisu lovers' thing? Absolutely top stuff yet again from the self-appointed fan's leader.

Aren't we due another mailout in the next 20 minutes? Maybe a poll about the distribution of blame or something really useful like that? How about some edgy black and white photos, it's been ages.

 

[covmark]

Torch and Covmark - thanks for replies that deal with the issue rather than Andreas style nonsense. kcic proposed a 'make the call joy' approach for sisu to accept the rental offer that was shown to be better than playing at sixfields but that got shot down by people saying it was a waste of time because sisu don't want a rental deal, meaning the only option for a return is sisu ownership of the ricoh. But in trying to put together a campaign narrative (which is what the FAQs - the original point of this thread! - effectively tried to do) it's neither logical nor persuasive to say on the one hand our owner is no good for ccfc and is untrustworthy but on the other we want them to own the ricoh!

I don't have a problem with them owning the Ricoh, the way round their untrustworthyness (is that a word?) is to make sure there are caveats in place to make sure the club and stadium stay united. I think its Godiva that says the Ricoh should be under the SBS&L umbrella, that for me would be fine. IMO if SISU had the club and the stadium to sell we would get rid of them quicker, this is what everyone wants isn't it?

 

[MichaelCCFC]

Sisy aren't good for the club. However, when I last looked they own it and therefore control our destiny. Sticking your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes will not change that fact.

Sorry G, you posted this while I was typing so similar thanks to you as to torch and covmark. Campaigning is all about trying to change things. If there's agreement we want ccfc back at the ricoh but sisu aren't trustworthy and aren't good for ccfc then it could be argued that just calling for negotiations (which I've done plenty of times) is the sticking fingers in ears/closing eyes approach because it blindly hopes things will somehow work out ok but is in fact illogical and unpersuasive.

 

[Grendel]

Sorry G, you posted this while I was typing so similar thanks to you as to torch and covmark. Campaigning is all about trying to change things. If there's agreement we want ccfc back at the ricoh but sisu aren't trustworthy and aren't good for ccfc then it could be argued that just calling for negotiations (which I've done plenty of times) is the sticking fingers in ears/closing eyes approach because it blindly hopes things will somehow work out ok but is in fact illogical and unpersuasive.

What you seem to ignore, which is very frustrating, is they are the Kingmaker. They are the only party who has any influence on the clubs destiny. Therefore, you have to engage them. Failure to engage them means that you risk losing the club from Coventry for sometime. If they attained the Ricoh "on the cheap" or "got their grubby mits on the Ricoh" or whatever the in vogue saying is this week why does this matter if the club is back in Coventry?

If sisu managed to achieve this and own the stadium what's actually going to happen?

One thing that will not happen is another game at Sixfields.

 

[The Gentleman]

Are we back to the 'Sisu lovers' thing? Absolutely top stuff yet again from the self-appointed fan's leader.

Aren't we due another mailout in the next 20 minutes? Maybe a poll about the distribution of blame or something really useful like that? How about some edgy black and white photos, it's been ages.

As said by the man who brings absolutely fuck all to this forum.

 

[Frisky blue]

As said by the man who brings absolutely fuck all to this forum.

Spot on gent, the likes of these cretins are prolonging the sisu led destruction of our club. Inane idiots such as grendel andreas limoncello etc. are breathtakingly stupid in their take on this whole fiasco. Anyone with any common sense should be able to ascertain that sisu are to blame for the heartbreaking demise of our club. And the longer sisu remain the further we will descend into the abyss. Thank goodness the likes of yourself and Astite are intelligent enough to see the real and bigger picture. Cov will never be anything while sisu are our owners

 

[skybluetony176]

What you seem to ignore, which is very frustrating, is they are the Kingmaker. They are the only party who has any influence on the clubs destiny. Therefore, you have to engage them. Failure to engage them means that you risk losing the club from Coventry for sometime. If they attained the Ricoh "on the cheap" or "got their grubby mits on the Ricoh" or whatever the in vogue saying is this week why does this matter if the club is back in Coventry?

If sisu managed to achieve this and own the stadium what's actually going to happen?

One thing that will not happen is another game at Sixfields.

You've met them grendull. How did engaging them work out for you?

 

[AndreasB]

Spot on gent, the likes of these cretins are prolonging the sisu led destruction of our club. Inane idiots such as grendel andreas limoncello etc. are breathtakingly stupid in their take on this whole fiasco. Anyone with any common sense should be able to ascertain that sisu are to blame for the heartbreaking demise of our club. And the longer sisu remain the further we will descend into the abyss. Thank goodness the likes of yourself and Astite are intelligent enough to see the real and bigger picture. Cov will never be anything while sisu are our owners

And that load of bollocks is the sum total of your considered opinion on the matter is it?

 

[torchomatic]

As said by the man who brings absolutely fuck all to this forum.

 

[AndreasB]

Torch and Covmark - thanks for replies that deal with the issue rather than Andreas style nonsense. kcic proposed a 'make the call joy' approach for sisu to accept the rental offer that was shown to be better than playing at sixfields but that got shot down by people saying it was a waste of time because sisu don't want a rental deal, meaning the only option for a return is sisu ownership of the ricoh. But in trying to put together a campaign narrative (which is what the FAQs - the original point of this thread! - effectively tried to do) it's neither logical nor persuasive to say on the one hand our owner is no good for ccfc and is untrustworthy but on the other we want them to own the ricoh!

"shot down" by who? you wildy veer from one position to the other - sometimes halfway through an email and you expect people to understand what you are on about? You never answered my points about why you wont joint the trust or other fan groups.

and you wonder why no one takes you seriously apart from a few loons on here egging you on.