Judicial review day 3 - judgement day (33 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Dal]

Anyone else getting Higgs case vibes here?

Still thinking some kind of draw: decision contravenes state aid but no damages kinda thing. The more I hear, the more it seems like some corners were cut in a panic, but a panic induced by Sisu and done with legitimate aims. Not all procedure was followed, but the council was allowed to take the decision they did kind of thing. As always, no idea if this is a possible outcome.

Who is that hot chick on your Avatar.. your mum???

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

Quote-: Sisu QC says European Commission should have been notified.

This I feel is what is going to be the Achilles' heel for the CCC.

If CCC did not notify the European commission regarding the State Aid (if it is classed as one) then they have been very amateurish and stupid.

I do fear this is what the CCC downfall will be.

tbh if (if) that was the only reason for it fallling down, it'd be proof if ever needed that a judgement in law and procedure doesn't really help us though, as it wouldn't show they were 'wrong' to give the loan, would it, just... incompetent!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The more I follow the more I think uh Tim and mark where are all these facts that will surface or were you talking absolutely rot like rfc

 

[duffer]

Be interesting to see who he is talking to/having a drink with afterwards...

Whomever he wants to, I'm sure.

At the risk of taking this off-topic, I'm going to be straight here. Les Reid strikes me as a decent bloke and an honest journalist, and if he's been chucked off the story or bounced out of the CET for holding an opinion different to mine, the editor's, or anyone else's, it's a scandal. If there's an imputation by anyone here that he's SISU's man, then that's grossly unfair in my book.

Similarly though, Simon Gilbert is also as far as I know, an honest, decent journo, telling the truth as he sees it.

If there's an issue with what either of these guys has said recently or in the past, then it's surely better to challenge it on the facts, rather than on some presumption of bias on the part of the individual.

 

[AndreasB]

Mark Labovitch:

'My 1st ever tweet. Honoured to be mentioned by Simon Gilbert, the Harry Styles of local journalism'

Haha! Simon does have a touch of the boy band about him it has to be said [Says me who has the look of Tim Fisher's dog's arse on a cold morning]

One of the 9 people followed by ML is Tim Minogue, "Rotten Boroughs" editior for Private Eye. Pretty obvious where the last council bashing piece in the Eye came from (after 2 fairly anti Sisu ones last year)

Expect something else in the next edition whatever the result today...

 

[AJB1983]

Quote-: Sisu QC says European Commission should have been notified.

This I feel is what is going to be the Achilles' heel for the CCC.

If CCC did not notify the European commission regarding the State Aid (if it is classed as one) then they have been very amateurish and stupid.

I do fear this is what the CCC downfall will be.

ACL qc addressed this, argued this case isn't for a European court. Eu didn't need to be told.

 

[shmmeee]

Who is that hot chick on your Avatar.. your mum???

 

[AJB1983]

Whomever he wants to, I'm sure.

At the risk of taking this off-topic, I'm going to be straight here. Les Reid strikes me as a decent bloke and an honest journalist, and if he's been chucked off the story or bounced out of the CET for holding an opinion different to mine, the editor's, or anyone else's, it's a scandal. If there's an imputation by anyone here that he's SISU's man, then that's grossly unfair in my book.

Similarly though, Simon Gilbert is also as far as I know, an honest, decent journo, telling the truth as he sees it.

If there's an issue with what either of these guys has said recently or in the past, then it's surely better to challenge it on the facts, rather than on some presumption of bias on the part of the individual.

It was who he had a few drinks that could have affected his impartiality, allegedly.

 

[Godiva]

Who is that hot chick on your Avatar.. your mum???

His ex-wife I would say from the way he talks about her.

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

His ex-wife I would say from the way he talks about her.

TBF I see my ex wife in her too.. pretends to be an angel but under that cloak is the devil.

 

[shmmeee]

Whomever he wants to, I'm sure.

At the risk of taking this off-topic, I'm going to be straight here. Les Reid strikes me as a decent bloke and an honest journalist, and if he's been chucked off the story or bounced out of the CET for holding an opinion different to mine, the editor's, or anyone else's, it's a scandal. If there's an imputation by anyone here that he's SISU's man, then that's grossly unfair in my book.

Similarly though, Simon Gilbert is also as far as I know, an honest, decent journo, telling the truth as he sees it.

If there's an issue with what either of these guys has said recently or in the past, then it's surely better to challenge it on the facts, rather than on some presumption of bias on the part of the individual.

As I said in another thread. If one of my employees treated my customers the way Reid was talking to his readers on Twitter and in blog comments, I'd fire them on the spot. Simon has given a masterclass in how to handle 21st century media and all that comes with being closer to your readership IMO. Reid, for whatever reason, obviously isn't set up to cope with the Internet, and sort of imploded. It happens to the best of them. Old media and new media are very different beasts and news isn't just about smokey rooms and drunken sources and "extra extra read all about it" any more.

Besides, if you set yourself against the readership, you'd better either be so bloody good they can't afford to lose you, or have some extraordinary evidence for your case. Snowden wouldn't have worked without the files, it'd just have been some anti-American conspiracy nut causing trouble. Reid never convinced the readership of his views.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Whomever he wants to, I'm sure.

At the risk of taking this off-topic, I'm going to be straight here. Les Reid strikes me as a decent bloke and an honest journalist, and if he's been chucked off the story or bounced out of the CET for holding an opinion different to mine, the editor's, or anyone else's, it's a scandal. If there's an imputation by anyone here that he's SISU's man, then that's grossly unfair in my book.

Similarly though, Simon Gilbert is also as far as I know, an honest, decent journo, telling the truth as he sees it.

If there's an issue with what either of these guys has said recently or in the past, then it's surely better to challenge it on the facts, rather than on some presumption of bias on the part of the individual.

I'll see your off-topic and raise it

tbh it's never been his stories that have bothered me with Reid. His defences were sometimes rather odd though (an over-liking of the word 'grilling' to refer to a chat over tea and scones - hardly a hangable offence though).

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

ACL qc addressed this, argued this case isn't for a European court. Eu didn't need to be told.

It all depends on the Judges decision. But I must point out that on the State Aid guidance and on there flow chart, the clearly states the importance of notifying the EC if there is any State Aid above 200,000 Euro's, which this was.

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

ACL qc addressed this, argued this case isn't for a European court. Eu didn't need to be told.

It all depends on the Judges decision. But I must point out that on the State Aid guidance and on there flow chart, the clearly states the importance of notifying the EC if there is any State Aid above 200,000 Euro's, which this was.

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

ACL qc addressed this, argued this case isn't for a European court. Eu didn't need to be told.

It all depends on the Judges decision. But I must point out that on the State Aid guidance and on there flow chart, it clearly states the importance of notifying the EC if there is any State Aid above 200,000 Euro's, which this was.

 

[shmmeee]

His ex-wife I would say from the way he talks about her.

If she was my ex. I wouldn't be a teacher, I'd be a millionaire.

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

How the bloody hell do you delete your own duplicated posts????

 

[Grendel]

It all depends on the Judges decision. But I must point out that on the State Aid guidance and on there flow chart, the clearly states the importance of notifying the EC if there is any State Aid above 200,000 Euro's, which this was.

Yes so they may well find in favour of sisu. However, as sisu withheld rent they are unlikely to receive damages.

We're ACL in financial difficulty? Odd that as certain financial experts on here have argued this never was the case.

 

[shmmeee]

It all depends on the Judges decision. But I must point out that on the State Aid guidance and on there flow chart, it clearly states the importance of notifying the EC if there is any State Aid above 200,000 Euro's, which this was.

Hang on, is it definitely state aid, or will the judge decide? Genuine question, is the issue at hand whether it was state aid at all or is that accepted by both sides? If the latter I can't see how you're wrong to be fair.

 

[Godiva]

If she was my ex. I wouldn't be a teacher, I'd be a millionaire.

Oh, you think she would share?
More likely you would have been stripped of all you had in the divorce process.

 

[shmmeee]

Oh, you think she would share?
More likely you would have been stripped of all you had in the divorce process.

Then I'd be a teacher with half the debts

Edit: actually, considering her form a teacher with no assets and all her debts.

 

[Sky Blues]

Yes so they may well find in favour of sisu. However, as sisu withheld rent they are unlikely to receive damages.

We're ACL in financial difficulty? Odd that as certain financial experts on here have argued this never was the case.

If a company is going bust, is it worth £0 or is it worth (in the worst case scenario) £6.4m?

 

[Cheshire Sky Blue]

Quote-: Sisu QC says European Commission should have been notified.

This I feel is what is going to be the Achilles' heel for the CCC.

If CCC did not notify the European commission regarding the State Aid (if it is classed as one) then they have been very amateurish and stupid.

I do fear this is what the CCC downfall will be.

That is SISU's QC's view, both CCC & ACL QC's have offered different opinions. In fairness we would have expected nothing else. What will be important is what the Judge's opinion is.

 

[Hobo]

It all depends on the Judges decision. But I must point out that on the State Aid guidance and on there flow chart, it clearly states the importance of notifying the EC if there is any State Aid above 200,000 Euro's, which this was.

Don't just quote half of it:

State aid is a European Commission term referring to forms of assistance from a public body or publicly-funded body which is given to organisations engaged in economic commercial activity on a selective basis, with the potential to distort competition and affect trade between Member States of the European Union.

How has it distorted competition and affected trade between member states?

 

[Jack Griffin]

How the bloody hell do you delete your own duplicated posts????

[Edit post] [Delete].. (then the tricky bit) select the "Delete Post" radio button below "Delete this post in the following manner:" then press [Delete Post]..

couldn't be more complex if I'd designed it myself! :facepalm:

 

[Deleted member 5849]

As I said in another thread. If one of my employees treated my customers the way Reid was talking to his readers on Twitter and in blog comments

Yeah, his twitter was sometimes rather odd.

Then again, it was also somewhat impassioned at times! Would have probably been better off just not answering people on there full-stop.

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah, his twitter was sometimes rather odd.

Then again, it was also somewhat impassioned at times! Would have probably been better off just not answering people on there full-stop.

That's kinda my point with the old/new media comments. Simon is either polite or says nothing at all. These days you've got to be like that in your job if you're going to engage in social media. I get messages from kids on various platforms occasionally (I don't hide myself particularly), if they've left school and are polite I'll answer them as if I was at work. If not I ignore them. If I started answering back in kind, I doubt I'd last long.

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

[Edit post] [Delete].. (then the tricky bit) select the "Delete Post" radio button below "Delete this post in the following manner:" then press [Delete Post]..

couldn't be more complex if I'd designed it myself! :facepalm:

Thanks Jack!!

 

[stupot07]

Yeah, his twitter was sometimes rather odd.

Then again, it was also somewhat impassioned at times! Would have probably been better off just not answering people on there full-stop.

Agreed. I don't think simon has had to put up with half of the dogs abuse Reid (and Sinclaire) have been subjected to. That said his twitter feed was sometimes odd, and like you said perhaps blocking and ignoring would have been the best option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[Godiva]

Don't just quote half of it:

State aid is a European Commission term referring to forms of assistance from a public body or publicly-funded body which is given to organisations engaged in economic commercial activity on a selective basis, with the potential to distort competition and affect trade between Member States of the European Union.

How has it distorted competition and affected trade between member states?

Well, the money is given to a stadium management company.
The stadium is used for international matches - the Olympics in 2012 for instance.
So in theory the Ricoh could be competing with other venues within the EU.

Council QC did his best to blur this, but saying Coventry isn't metropolitan like Copenhagen may not be enough.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Yes so they may well find in favour of sisu. However, as sisu withheld rent they are unlikely to receive damages.

We're ACL in financial difficulty? Odd that as certain financial experts on here have argued this never was the case.

I would imagine that ACL may not have been in immediate financial difficulty, however, they could have been in future if resolution of the problem (or alternative tenants) was not found (unknown at the time of the financial assistance).The fact that the refinancing of the debt allowed ACL to offer a significantly reduced rent agreement is more relevant in my eyes, benefitting the club whilst also protecting a community asset.

SISUs argument appears to be based on relatively minor legal points (probably still considered important in these circumstances though). It doesn't go to the route of the reasoning/issue(s). Why are they unhappy that the council took out the bank debt ? Lets be honest it wasn't because they want to ensure that councils around Europe follow the letter of the law in every state aid case ! Its because they wanted to take control of the debt, and in turn the ground, for a reduced price.

Councils make a mess of things all the time, my personal belief though for what its worth, is that the council should be well within their rights to protect a community asset and just because they didn't follow every single letter of the law shouldn't make a difference in this instance.

 

[Nick]

As I said in another thread. If one of my employees treated my customers the way Reid was talking to his readers on Twitter and in blog comments, I'd fire them on the spot. Simon has given a masterclass in how to handle 21st century media and all that comes with being closer to your readership IMO. Reid, for whatever reason, obviously isn't set up to cope with the Internet, and sort of imploded. It happens to the best of them. Old media and new media are very different beasts and news isn't just about smokey rooms and drunken sources and "extra extra read all about it" any more.

Besides, if you set yourself against the readership, you'd better either be so bloody good they can't afford to lose you, or have some extraordinary evidence for your case. Snowden wouldn't have worked without the files, it'd just have been some anti-American conspiracy nut causing trouble. Reid never convinced the readership of his views.

I agree, he made the mistake of using his name. He should have played the game and made false accounts and names and acted the fool!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

That's kinda my point with the old/new media comments. Simon is either polite or says nothing at all. These days you've got to be like that in your job if you're going to engage in social media. I get messages from kids on various platforms occasionally (I don't hide myself particularly), if they've left school and are polite I'll answer them as if I was at work. If not I ignore them. If I started answering back in kind, I doubt I'd last long.

Yeah quite.

The modern age is also (FWIW!) a fine reason why anybody wanting us all to out ourselves on here is crazy Not that I am anything other than hired scum... but I have no great desire to have to reply here as though an employee of my organisation, and nothing but.

Once it's my name upon something, it's dealing with things professionally, and not calling people a twat, even if they are

 

[Cheshire Sky Blue]

Is that the last input from the QC's? If so what happens next?

 

[Jack Griffin]

is that the last input from the qc's? If so what happens next?

lunch!!!!!!