England vs Italy (8 Viewers)
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Lots of positives IMO...we stayed with them. Just that killer ball!
The defining thing - as the commentator said at about 92mins "Pirlo...he plays a different game to most people"
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The defining thing - as the commentator said at about 92mins "Pirlo...he plays a different game to most people"
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Otis
Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Gotta agree...Rooney did at least make some positive contributions tonight, but even though I haven't kicked a ball for 5yrs - I could've taken a better corner than that on ANY surface!
He's got to be dropped - he doesn't fit. Great player if you build the team around him as MUFC...but this is England!
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
He's cool enough to fit a couple of games in as well during the 90mins. It's unbelievable how every time Italy get the ball he finds himself at least 10yds of space all around!
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Otis
Well-Known Member
I would go for Lallana or Barclay in that role. Wilshere was poor when he came on but I would still consider him for a start. He keeps things ticking over and has a burst of pace about him.
Shooting and crossing was also piss poor for us tonight.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Otis
Well-Known Member
Can I also say, I do agree with the pundits here. Easy to say we were shit, but had that great chance for Rooney gone in (and let's face it he SHOULD have scored), it may well have been a completely different ball game.
Very small margins at times.
Play that game again and it could be a completely different scoreline.
Very small margins at times.
Play that game again and it could be a completely different scoreline.
Marty
Well-Known Member
Wilshere added nothing when he came on. Slow in possession, over running balls, poor timing on tackles. Hadn't played for about three months for Arsenal and it showed
Otis
Well-Known Member
He played well the other night though in the friendly. Looked quite sharp then and made a big difference, so he should be close to ready at least.
Otis
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't get too donwhearted to be honest.
Bottom line is that tonight tactics and formations were our main downfall.
1. Not rectifying the problem down our left.
2. Putting no pressure on Pirlo and just allowing him to stroll around the park controlling the game. If Lloyd McGrath can mark Gelnn Hoddle out of a game, then surely someone could have at least done half a job on Pirlo.
Besides that our finishing and crossing were also poor, but there were a lot of positives.
I am confident that we can beat both Uruguay and Costa Rica and that will surely see us through.
Bottom line is that tonight tactics and formations were our main downfall.
1. Not rectifying the problem down our left.
2. Putting no pressure on Pirlo and just allowing him to stroll around the park controlling the game. If Lloyd McGrath can mark Gelnn Hoddle out of a game, then surely someone could have at least done half a job on Pirlo.
Besides that our finishing and crossing were also poor, but there were a lot of positives.
I am confident that we can beat both Uruguay and Costa Rica and that will surely see us through.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Hard luck for the lads today, could've got a point or even 3 on another day. More confidence of progress now than before.
Rooney isn't the same player he was, he can still provide the quality pass as shown for the goal but he lacks the power, pace and explosiveness that he used to have. He doesn't have the power to play in the '3' behind the striker and he isn't as good as Sturridge in the striker position so he shouldn't be in the team currently. How many times did he pick up the ball and drive forwards as he used to, once I remember when he shot wide.
I see him long term becoming a deep playmaker as the way Scholes was as he has the quality and passing range to do it but he no longer has the pace and power that he used to have.
Rooney isn't the same player he was, he can still provide the quality pass as shown for the goal but he lacks the power, pace and explosiveness that he used to have. He doesn't have the power to play in the '3' behind the striker and he isn't as good as Sturridge in the striker position so he shouldn't be in the team currently. How many times did he pick up the ball and drive forwards as he used to, once I remember when he shot wide.
I see him long term becoming a deep playmaker as the way Scholes was as he has the quality and passing range to do it but he no longer has the pace and power that he used to have.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Massively overrated, that pass to Johnson was laughable. Henderson isn't great but at least he knows his limitations.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
What do people think on Rooney? Personally I would play this next game
-------Hart
Johnson--Cahill--Jagielka--Baines
---------Henderson--Gerrard
--Welbeck-------Sterling---Lallana
-----------------Sturridge
Could make a case for Barkley but I don't think he is quite ready yet. Possibly Oxlade if he is fully fit? Or do we think Rooney still deserves his place?
-------Hart
Johnson--Cahill--Jagielka--Baines
---------Henderson--Gerrard
--Welbeck-------Sterling---Lallana
-----------------Sturridge
Could make a case for Barkley but I don't think he is quite ready yet. Possibly Oxlade if he is fully fit? Or do we think Rooney still deserves his place?
Marty
Well-Known Member
Drop Rooney. Hasn't performed at any tourament since euro 2004? Left baines exposed all first half. Isn't good enough to warrant the number 9 or 10 roll. Lallana would better suit the formation as well as offering better cover to Baines. Hes lucky he lasted past half time but saying that, I would have left him at home.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
That corner just about summed him up
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Some people are lavishing praise on Italy for both of those but I agree, both were preventable. The first by not giving Marchisio acres of time and space to pick his spot, the second by not allowing Balotelli the free header. Sterling was fantastic though.
Just not that simple I'm afraid. The guy has one of the best footballing brains on the planet. He's always in space and always has time because he's creating it for himself, not because the opposition have forgotten he exists.
Otis
Well-Known Member
So why isn't he just a master class and winning every game for Italy? There has to be a counter for him surely. You can't just let him spray the ball about the park all day long.
Didn't say it was simple, Sutty, just saying we just allowed him all the time in the world all game long and didn't even attempt to close him down.
Pele used to have one of the best footballing brains on the planet too but at times he was crowded out of games and really closely marked to prevent him doing too much damage. He was snuffed out of games at times. You can't just let a player like that have all the time in the world to pick his pass. You need someone nipping at his heels all game long. Knock him off his stride, hurry his passing game.
Think you will find he is a football player not a god. Players such as that can win games for their teams easily for sure, if you allow them to. What did we try and do to counter him?
Last 20 games Italy have won just 6.
Not saying it was simple, but we should have least tried to knock him out of his stride, put pressure on him and put in a couple of meaty challenges on the player. It was like a training exercise for him all game long.
Yes, he's a great player, but he is not some superhuman. Someone nipping at his heels a bit, the way Welbeck was nipping at the defence's heels all game long might have made a bit of a difference.
Bottom line is you don't allow the best players in the world all the time in the world on the ball. That'll kill you all game long.
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Otis
Well-Known Member
Just wanted to add too, that i think we can be very proud of that performance.
Just how many times in the past have we failed to to play well at all in previous tournament group games and have got through to the knock out stages scraping wins and by the skin of our teeth?
I'm sure the world watching last night will have seen that we do have a good team there and that we are very much a threat going forwards. Think there was a lot to give us heart and I can see no reason why we can't win the next 2 games to see us through to the next round.
'England have changed from relying on long balls to a skilful side with "one of the strongest attacks in the World Cup", says Italy boss Cesare Prandelli. It was an epic match and I feel that England is one of the strongest teams in the World Cup," said Prandelli.
A lot of what wrong last night was tactically and not stemming the flow of balls coming in from the right. That can and should be addressed.
Bring on Uruguay, though I also have to say, I don't necessarily subscribe to this game being a must win.
Think we can win and quietly confident we will win, but if Italy beat Costa Rica, that will put Italy on 6 points and Costa Rica on 3.
A draw for us against Uruguay would have both teams on 1 point each, with Costa Rica to come for us and Italy to come for Uruguay in the last group games. Therefore a win in England's final game against Costa Rica would give us 4 points, have Costa Rica remaining on 3 and leave Uruguay having to beat Italy.
This next game I don't believe is a must win. Do think we will win though anyway. What happens between Italy and Costa Rica could well be key. Win for Italy and I think 4 points will take us through.
Just how many times in the past have we failed to to play well at all in previous tournament group games and have got through to the knock out stages scraping wins and by the skin of our teeth?
I'm sure the world watching last night will have seen that we do have a good team there and that we are very much a threat going forwards. Think there was a lot to give us heart and I can see no reason why we can't win the next 2 games to see us through to the next round.
'England have changed from relying on long balls to a skilful side with "one of the strongest attacks in the World Cup", says Italy boss Cesare Prandelli. It was an epic match and I feel that England is one of the strongest teams in the World Cup," said Prandelli.
A lot of what wrong last night was tactically and not stemming the flow of balls coming in from the right. That can and should be addressed.
Bring on Uruguay, though I also have to say, I don't necessarily subscribe to this game being a must win.
Think we can win and quietly confident we will win, but if Italy beat Costa Rica, that will put Italy on 6 points and Costa Rica on 3.
A draw for us against Uruguay would have both teams on 1 point each, with Costa Rica to come for us and Italy to come for Uruguay in the last group games. Therefore a win in England's final game against Costa Rica would give us 4 points, have Costa Rica remaining on 3 and leave Uruguay having to beat Italy.
This next game I don't believe is a must win. Do think we will win though anyway. What happens between Italy and Costa Rica could well be key. Win for Italy and I think 4 points will take us through.
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stupot07
Well-Known Member
Completely agree sutty. He's a special player.
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sky blue zam
Member
Can't see Uruguay being that poor again especially if Suarez plays. Big game a draw would be ok.
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If Suarez was fit surely he would have played at some point yesterday. Back to England, I have been a big critic of welbeck but yesterday did not stop running and defending from the front. Rooney was shit as usual and I think the regret of not taking Cole will show