Disturbing (6 Viewers)

[duffer]

SISU should drop their demands for the freehold, and in exchange should be offered a peppercorn rent. The club should also be given access to 50% off revenue which the club brings into ACL. That includes F&B's, parking,naming rights and general sponsorship.

Both parties, and the fans, need to realise that the sides need each other for both the club and ACL to be a success. This would also make the club more attractive to a potential buyer.

I'd agree with this in part, both sides clearly do better with each other in place.

But I don't think that dropping an unreasonable demand is a likely basis for being given a peppercorn rent and the 50% of revenue which was previously sold. I can't see anyone settling for that. But coming back on a short-term, low cost deal does give room to negotiate in good faith for something along those lines.

 

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[spider_ricoh]

Spot on. How in earth can anyone serious expect the owners of a business to pay for another business than quadruples in value purely due to them.

No one will do it. Ultimately both sides will die off.

About as reasonably as you can do a deal then demand a whole load of concessions after you have messed up your own business, saying "we need t his, we need that, to be viable" without offering anything in exchange - SISU sound like they believe the Ricoh is theirs by right and their petulance is matched only by yours. I

'll be having champagne tonight to celebrate the JR verdict - up yours!

 

[Bennets Afro]

Question...

The club sold it rights to F&B revenues when it sold its stake in ACL to The higgs. If they struck a new rent deal, would they still not be entitled to any or would they be treated like a new customer.

If say London wasps took on the tenancy would they get the revenues they generate or would ACL keep them all?

 

[CCFC PimpRail]

SISU should drop their demands for the freehold, and in exchange should be offered a peppercorn rent. The club should also be given access to 50% off revenue which the club brings into ACL. That includes F&B's, parking,naming rights and general sponsorship.

I'm sure an offer to buy the 50% share of ACL back at £6.5m plus the standard business rate of 8%pa might be entertained. But I doubt SISU could find 6.5 pence...

 

[diggerdaley]

Are sisu paying a fair rent at sixfields ? I suppose they sell a few dozen pies at half time.

 

[Astute]

Question...

The club sold it rights to F&B revenues when it sold its stake in ACL to The higgs. If they struck a new rent deal, would they still not be entitled to any or would they be treated like a new customer.

If say London wasps took on the tenancy would they get the revenues they generate or would ACL keep them all?

That is what the idea of negotiating is all about. And we all know that SISU haven't negotiated but just said what they want and nothing else will do.

 

[Astute]

Spot on. How in earth can anyone serious expect the owners of a business to pay for another business than quadruples in value purely due to them.

No one will do it. Ultimately both sides will die off.

I don't agree with your calculations. They are just figures put out by SISU and they were pulled up by the judge in the Higgs case. But even if it is true is it OK for us to have been moved to Northampton just so ACL would lose 75% of their value and the SISU investors gain this value plus more if the lies they put together would have gained them the Ricoh?

 

[italiahorse]

Can you show me where I always stick up for SISU?

Above ?

It's a move in the right direction because we needed to get Sisu back to reality.
Once they get the fact that the Ricoh is not for sale and ACL is not distressed they will need to operate more business like.

ACL/CCC may have charged an unaffordable rent, that the club agreed too, but they have made steps to address this by reducing it considerable.
I'm sure that once back to reality Sisu can come to some lease arrangement and perhaps ACL can provide an olive branch and factor in the incremental revenues, that they have not had for a year, but are clearly critical to the club.

I feel positive that Sisu have had a go at plan A and need now to discuss Plan B sensibly.

I also feel that both ACL and SISU need to change the management structure so we don't deal with personnel regarded as responsible for this sorry affair.

 

[spider_ricoh]

Above ?

It's a move in the right direction because we needed to get Sisu back to reality.
Once they get the fact that the Ricoh is not for sale and ACL is not distressed they will need to operate more business like.

ACL/CCC may have charged an unaffordable rent, that the club agreed too, but they have made steps to address this by reducing it considerable.
I'm sure that once back to reality Sisu can come to some lease arrangement and perhaps ACL can provide an olive branch and factor in the incremental revenues, that they have not had for a year, but are clearly critical to the club.

I feel positive that Sisu have had a go at plan A and need now to discuss Plan B sensibly.

I also feel that both ACL and SISU need to change the management structure so we don't deal with personnel regarded as responsible for this sorry affair.

Yeah, Timmy should be the first out of the door. The whole sorry episode dates back to his entrance on the scene.

 

[James Smith]

What is there to celebrate? Tim says that they're going to appeal against the JR verdict which means someone (as well as the lawyers) will have to focus on that and not running our club. We're letting players go and not replacing them and if the Metro newspaper is to be believed everybody is or should be looking to sign Wilson.

They rejected the offer to KCIC made, possibly because of the involvement of Gary Hoffman given he got a mention in the article. That means we're playing another season in Northampton at Sixfields which (and I apologize for the sarcasm here) is really good news. We're homeless and Sisu are dragging their heels on getting us a new one built, if they ever intend to do so.

Nurse more Prozac please

 

[shmmeee]

Question...

The club sold it rights to F&B revenues when it sold its stake in ACL to The higgs. If they struck a new rent deal, would they still not be entitled to any or would they be treated like a new customer.

If say London wasps took on the tenancy would they get the revenues they generate or would ACL keep them all?

Let's be honest, London Wasps won't be asking for the unencumbered freehold or access to revenue from the other ventures, all while trying to bankrupt the arena.

Lucas seemed fairly clear to me from the O'Connor interview, and ACL's public position at least has always been that the club can buy the revenues back, as they sold the rights to them.

A new tenant coming wouldn't be so stupid as to sell off the rights I'd imagine.

I'd like to think that a sensible deal can be reached, but we really need to drill a bit deeper than "revenues" as that term covers a very wide range of solutions. Ironically, if the club publicly asked for, say, 100% of matchday revenue from the bowl, most would probably back them. But they've never publicly stated what it is they actually want, leaving those who agree with the reasoning to fit the idea around their own thoughts. It's far from clear that what you and I think of as "revenues" are the same as what Joy is asking for.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'd like to think that a sensible deal can be reached, but we really need to drill a bit deeper than "revenues" as that term covers a very wide range of solutions. Ironically, if the club publicly asked for, say, 100% of matchday revenue from the bowl, most would probably back them. But they've never publicly stated what it is they actually want, leaving those who agree with the reasoning to fit the idea around their own thoughts. It's far from clear that what you and I think of as "revenues" are the same as what Joy is asking for.

True, but that's a more sensible question to ask than just stating a flat-out 'no'.

One could indeed argue a lack of an answer to such a question would be a reason to refuse to back...

 

[covmark]

About as reasonably as you can do a deal then demand a whole load of concessions after you have messed up your own business, saying "we need t his, we need that, to be viable" without offering anything in exchange - SISU sound like they believe the Ricoh is theirs by right and their petulance is matched only by yours. I

'll be having champagne tonight to celebrate the JR verdict - up yours!

Celebrating a court case that has fuck all to do with you. Wow your life must be a barrel of excitement. Get a grip man.

 

[Chipfat]

The one point the judge made was very clear,, Sisu knew all about F & B they also knew about the rent,, complaining and trying to stress others is an admittance that Sisu got it wrong from day 1....They have never had plan b, they never knew how to run a football club and now do not know how to get out. Don't stick up or misdirect that people are happy, Sisu have got what they deserve in court, found out and dealt with openly and honestly...

In business you fail to prepare be prepared to fail. they have and brought the club down with them,, sadly hurting thousands of fans and the city the club represents. I hope TF thinks about all he is saying and start's to look for reasonable answer's to the problem, not blaming councils, companies or individuals he doesn't like..He very much represents his company, unprofessional, deceitful and very arrogant about the way he deals with those who disagree or stand in his way..The other parties have offered talks and although i would be very careful, they have offered, Sisu need to get round the table or fook off, others are waiting with better deals and better plans than Sisu...

 

[shmmeee]

True, but that's a more sensible question to ask than just stating a flat-out 'no'.

One could indeed argue a lack of an answer to such a question would be a reason to refuse to back...

Yeah you could argue both ways, and yeah the council should want the club back, etc. etc. but ultimately, it's Sisu's job to (should I say it?) "pick up the phone" here. They're the ones playing coy as to what they want. If something's not got a price tag on, you ask, you don't stand there until the work experience kid comes round with the labeller.

 

[spider_ricoh]

Celebrating a court case that has fuck all to do with you. Wow your life must be a barrel of excitement. Get a grip man.

It is a barrel of excitement actually, just got back from Madrid for 5 days to hear the best news in years regarding CCFC, now sat in bed with my girlfriend drinking champagne and eating milk tray. What are you doing, having a cup of ovaltine and a crank?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

now sat in bed with my girlfriend drinking champagne and eating milk tray.

...and posting on skybluetalk.

Living the dream!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Yeah you could argue both ways, and yeah the council should want the club back, etc. etc. but ultimately, it's Sisu's job to (should I say it?) "pick up the phone" here. They're the ones playing coy as to what they want. If something's not got a price tag on, you ask, you don't stand there until the work experience kid comes round with the labeller.

I didn't, however, say they shouldn't.

But it gets boiled down by many on here (not you ) to simply 'a fair rent' (as if we know what that is!) and the odd publicity stunt about 'a fair rent'. And that takes away from the questions such as 'what are revenues in your eyes?' and instead means there's a lot of OMG HE WANTS THE REVENUES.

Regardless of anything else, this problem won't go away even if SISU bogged off tomorrow, so best to think about what possible solutions could work, no?

And if, say, the club were happy with a deal both of us have mooted, we'd be (grudgingly) backing it. At the moment however they don't have to be pinned down on *anything* on what they want, as we're gifting them what they *don't* want on a plate!

 

[covmark]

It is a barrel of excitement actually, just got back from Madrid for 5 days to hear the best news in years regarding CCFC, now sat in bed with my girlfriend drinking champagne and eating milk tray. What are you doing, having a cup of ovaltine and a crank?

The best news in years??? I think you may have had 1 too many champers all ready.

 

[AndreasB]

It is a barrel of excitement actually, just got back from Madrid for 5 days to hear the best news in years regarding CCFC, now sat in bed with my girlfriend drinking champagne and eating milk tray. What are you doing, having a cup of ovaltine and a crank?

Benefits Britain. I'm paying taxes for the likes of you swanning off to Spain and eating poundshop chocolates IN BED.


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[Grendel]

It is a barrel of excitement actually, just got back from Madrid for 5 days to hear the best news in years regarding CCFC, now sat in bed with my girlfriend drinking champagne and eating milk tray. What are you doing, having a cup of ovaltine and a crank?

Eating Milk Tray?

Christ I assume the champagne is babycham.

 

[Bennets Afro]

Let's be honest, London Wasps won't be asking for the unencumbered freehold or access to revenue from the other ventures, all while trying to bankrupt the arena.

Lucas seemed fairly clear to me from the O'Connor interview, and ACL's public position at least has always been that the club can buy the revenues back, as they sold the rights to them.

A new tenant coming wouldn't be so stupid as to sell off the rights I'd imagine.

I'd like to think that a sensible deal can be reached, but we really need to drill a bit deeper than "revenues" as that term covers a very wide range of solutions. Ironically, if the club publicly asked for, say, 100% of matchday revenue from the bowl, most would probably back them. But they've never publicly stated what it is they actually want, leaving those who agree with the reasoning to fit the idea around their own thoughts. It's far from clear that what you and I think of as "revenues" are the same as what Joy is asking for.

Yeah I agree. I think the club can only ask for match day revenue on a short term rent deal, but what I'm getting at is if someone like wasps come in and asked for match day revenue would they get it? Does the old agreement about match day revenues still exist or if a new agreement is reached, can it be included?

 

[spider_ricoh]

Benefits Britain. I'm paying taxes for the likes of you swanning off to Spain and eating poundshop chocolates IN BED.

Eh? I pay taxes too via my respectable job - trip to Spain ispart of my holiday entitlement!

Eating Milk Tray?

Christ I assume the champagne is babycham.

nope, £30 out of Sainsbury's - I'm not a total girl!

The best news in years??? I think you may have had 1 too many champers all ready.

Tell me something better that has happened since 2001.

 

[spider_ricoh]

...and posting on skybluetalk.

Living the dream!

She tolerates my general rantings about Joy/SISU/Tim ... from everything i have shown her about it, her view is that Tim is "a comedy douche"

 

[AndreasB]

Eh? I pay taxes too via my respectable job - trip to Spain ispart of my holiday entitlement!



nope, £30 out of Sainsbury's - I'm not a total girl!



Tell me something better that has happened since 2001.

The sequencing of the Human Genome?


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[spider_ricoh]

The sequencing of the Human Genome?

I obviously meant Coventry City news!!

 

[sky blue john]

SISU should drop their demands for the freehold, and in exchange should be offered a peppercorn rent. The club should also be given access to 50% off revenue which the club brings into ACL. That includes F&B's, parking,naming rights and general sponsorship.

Both parties, and the fans, need to realise that the sides need each other for both the club and ACL to be a success. This would also make the club more attractive to a potential buyer.

This was a realistic option at one point but you have to remember this is not what Sisu want !!
Sisu can rot for all I care they had their chance the world doesn't owe them a fat pay day !!
Are you not pissed off that they have constantly lied to us fans over the last couple of years ?????
Are you not pissed off that the amount of debt in are club will fuck us for generations ?
Fuck Sisu they are arrogant pricks and I wouldn't give them the steam off my piss !!

 

[Sick Boy]

She tolerates my general rantings about Joy/SISU/Tim ... from everything i have shown her about it, her view is that Tim is "a comedy douche"

You talk about to your girlfriend about this crap?!

 

[spider_ricoh]

You talk about to your girlfriend about this crap?!

To be fair, she has to force herself to be tolerant ... she once told me "if you keep talking at me about bloody Sisu Capital, you'll be a distressed asset!"

 

[AndreasB]

To be fair, she has to force herself to be tolerant ... she once told me "if you keep talking at me about bloody Sisu Capital, you'll be a distressed asset!"

BANTS!*


*you haven't really got a girlfriend have you.


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[dadgad]

The OP makes no sense.
Nobody is celebrating as until Sisu go we have no chance of improving as a club. The JR proved that as almost everybody with any moral fibre and common sense can see.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

So of the people you and grendel are only critical of Thorn none of this was his doing.

So he was a shit manager but did he move us away did he sell all our best players did he ignore the fans did he cause the divide.

Come on Grow up smell the Roses.....

oh you can't they are all dead.

And yes I am glad they lost now if only they would Fuck Off happy Days.

Then please show me where I stuck up for and praised sisu.

I was also highly critical of them for employing Thorn, whilst the majority on here though he was 'the next big thing' and let them get away with it for too long.

 

[Otis]

I'm glad they lost because I need to know that my council is acting in a proper and lawful way.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Surely we should all be glad the innocent party won?

 

[Ian1779]

According to the law - the Council acted properly and did nothing wrong at all.

This is the same law that deemed last years admin process legal also meaning in the same way that Appleton did nothing wrong at all.

If we are going to approach it from that point of view then it should be done consistently.