Acl to comment on Ricoh arena position (14 Viewers)

[martcov]

Well the 590K itself is a barrier isn't it? There's no way the two parties trust enough to do the transaction directly.. so there must be some 3rd party involved. So why can we not get clarity about this?

There are two key points here.

The 300K - has it been paid?
Have SISU put the money in the ESCROW?

I don't believe that if this 'agreement' was put in place after Otium being issued the GS that ACL aren't all over every fine detail of it. They must know if either of these have occurred.

It seems to me that either ACL are being economical with information or both SISU and McGinnity/Robinson are lying.

The 300k is nothing to do with the agreement - otherwise the FL would have told us by now and strangely enough it wasn't mentioned by SISU until the deadline was passed ( or maybe just before - I can't remember ).

SISU claim to have put the money in escrow - the FL would have had to say something if that were not true.

ACL certainly believe that the FL has made a simple agreement which is why they are pushing for it to be fulfilled.

IMO the FL thought they had made a simple agreement and didn't even think about SISU's current line - that when ACL gets money under another agreement it should be deducted from SISU's bill. I would never have come on that one either.

 

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[Grendel]

Money from the guarantors is understood to cover ACL’s ‘loss of earnings’ rather than the agreement for unpaid rent insisted on by the Football League

I know you have had a dialogue with the league Don and along with Martcov are clearly in the know. Can you please provide evidence to the effect that the league are saying the £300,000 payment is not related to the £590,000?

 

[skybluetony176]

Since the JR result we've been by Anne Lucas that she's prepared to negotiate. But now it seems she's got fuck all authority to do so.

Michael then came up with his 'to good to be true deal' with fuck all detail. Turns out that actually him and his associates had no authority to offer deal, and clearly ACL would never have accepted it in a million years.

ACL claim to be owed 590K - this is generally not in dispute. But what they fail to acknowledge is that they have had 300K of it already.

It seems that there are more barriers to negotiation than just SISU.

Do GR or MM work for or have in invested interest in OEG? I think we all know that the answer to that is no. The payment is an agreement between the FL and OEG in return for the golden share. If over half this payment has been made by MM & GR ad sisu seem to want us to believe and indeed some of us do. Does this mean that MM & GR now own just over half the golden share?

 

[Grendel]

Do GR or MM work for or have in invested interest in OEG? I think we all know that the answer to that is no. The payment is an agreement between the FL and OEG in return for the golden share. If over half this payment has been made by MM & GR ad sisu seem to want us to believe and indeed some of us do. Does this mean that MM & GR now own just over half the golden share?

Amazing another poster with written evidence from the football league regarding the payment, link please?

 

[Kingokings204]

For once and for all the 300k is nothing to do with the 590k.

The 300k was a payment made for "loss of earnings" and nothing to do with the 590k to stay in the league.

Please end the talk on this easy subject any more. It's wrong.

(Before any one says oh where is the link where it says that or have I got proof that the 300k isn't included well we were all told the 590k was part of ccfc staying in the league and if no one hasnt come out which they haven't to state otherwise then that agreement still stands)

 

[Ian1779]

The 300k is nothing to do with the agreement - otherwise the FL would have told us by now and strangely enough it wasn't mentioned by SISU until the deadline was passed ( or maybe just before - I can't remember ).

SISU claim to have put the money in escrow - the FL would have had to say something if that were not true.

ACL certainly believe that the FL has made a simple agreement which is why they are pushing for it to be fulfilled.

IMO the FL thought they had made a simple agreement and didn't even think about SISU's current line - that when ACL gets money under another agreement it should be deducted from SISU's bill. I would never have come on that one either.

The original guarantor agreement was for 500K - exactly the same value as the ESCROW fund in relation to the rental agreement. Of course it was part of it. It was then negotiated down to 300K.

If it wasn't part of the deal then why would 2 guarantors agree to potentially stump up to the tune of half a million on 'lost earnings'? If it had no connection to the rent than how exactly would ACL activate it??

So if you agree that SISU have put the money in the ESCROW in relation to this... what's all the fuss? Surely they have done their part?

 

[Rusty Trombone]

http://www.bobainsworthmp.co.uk


In a letter to me on the 5 August 2013, the Football League’s Chief Operating Officer, Andy Williamson explained the entry conditions imposed by the Football League and accepted by Otium Entertainment Group Limited (OEG) as part of the process to transfer the ‘golden share’ to OEG. He said:

“The Football League Board agreed to offer Otium Entertainment Group the club’s share in the Football League providing it accepted various entry conditions including a commitment that it meet the financial offer made to creditors under the proposed CVA.”

However, when Arena Coventry Limited’s (ACL) representative wrote seeking clarification as to the condition the Football League had imposed on OEG, and when ACL might receive payment, the Football League wrote back to say:

“We are not in a position to disclose the terms of the agreement between The Football League Limited and Otium Entertainment Group Limited and any queries about payment to creditors should be addressed to David Ruben & Partners as Administrators of Coventry City Football Club Limited. They are in possession of the funds arising out of the sale of assets to Otium Entertainment Group Limited.”

 

[Ian1779]

Do GR or MM work for or have in invested interest in OEG? I think we all know that the answer to that is no. The payment is an agreement between the FL and OEG in return for the golden share. If over half this payment has been made by MM & GR ad sisu seem to want us to believe and indeed some of us do. Does this mean that MM & GR now own just over half the golden share?

To be fair it does mean that MM and GR should have every right to pursue SISU for that money.

 

[martcov]

This is amazing news. You actually have the link to the statement from the football league regarding the issue if the golden share. Why are you hiding this? Sisu are gone tomorrow. Marty Cov is our saviour. Er, you do have the link don't you?

The reported deal is that OEG pay 590K. That is common knowledge and has been quoted enough times. Specific Link: No, I have to go back to work now, but I am sure Simon ( or someone else ) can fill you in on what was reported. If I am wrong, I am sure he will correct me.

The only confusion, is the idea that it was dependant on other events happening - e.g. the 300K. That has not been reported. The FL have not, as far as I know claimed this to be the case. So, as far as we know SISU have pulled this one out of the hat and the FL have a problem. The have a duty to their members - in this case SISU -and therefore have to be careful.

SISU are not gone tomorrow, but their future looks pretty desperate.

I wish I were the saviour of CCFC. If I could do something, I certainly would.

 

[Kingokings204]

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-official-insists-club-7087138

 

[Grendel]

The reported deal is that OEG pay 590K. That is common knowledge and has been quoted enough times. Specific Link: No, I have to go back to work now, but I am sure Simon ( or someone else ) can fill you in on what was reported. If I am wrong, I am sure he will correct me.

The only confusion, is the idea that it was dependant on other events happening - e.g. the 300K. That has not been reported. The FL have not, as far as I know claimed this to be the case. So, as far as we know SISU have pulled this one out of the hat and the FL have a problem. The have a duty to their members - in this case SISU -and therefore have to be careful.

SISU are not gone tomorrow, but their future looks pretty desperate.

I wish I were the saviour of CCFC. If I could do something, I certainly would.

The "reported" deal - slither, slither, backtrack backtrack.

 

[Kingokings204]

Nothing has been stated otherwise so we shall all assume it's still 590k. End of.

If The FL come out and say it's 290k now then fine we all know it's 290k but they haven't and so it's still 590k until told otherwise.

The reason it's so big is because it's a stumbling block to coming home if sisu just paid it then we are one step close to home.

 

[Kingokings204]

The "reported" deal - slither, slither, backtrack backtrack.

It's not reported it's a fact. See link above. Even your beloved ML agrees it's the deal.

 

[martcov]

The original guarantor agreement was for 500K - exactly the same value as the ESCROW fund in relation to the rental agreement. Of course it was part of it. It was then negotiated down to 300K.

If it wasn't part of the deal then why would 2 guarantors agree to potentially stump up to the tune of half a million on 'lost earnings'? If it had no connection to the rent than how exactly would ACL activate it??

So if you agree that SISU have put the money in the ESCROW in relation to this... what's all the fuss? Surely they have done their part?

How was it related to the golden share deal? When they made their guarantees CCFC were not in administration They obviously did not even foresee this situation. The FL did not necessarily even know about the guarantees when they made the deal. They just made ( I am assuming as a reasonabvle action ) the 590K condition to shut ACL, and critics of the golden share trick up in order that the show - the league fixtures - could go on.

 

[Grendel]

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-official-insists-club-7087138

This preceeded the story regarding mcginnity and Robinson didn't it?

 

[skybluetony176]

http://www.bobainsworthmp.co.uk


In a letter to me on the 5 August 2013, the Football League’s Chief Operating Officer, Andy Williamson explained the entry conditions imposed by the Football League and accepted by Otium Entertainment Group Limited (OEG) as part of the process to transfer the ‘golden share’ to OEG. He said:

“The Football League Board agreed to offer Otium Entertainment Group the club’s share in the Football League providing it accepted various entry conditions including a commitment that it meet the financial offer made to creditors under the proposed CVA.”

However, when Arena Coventry Limited’s (ACL) representative wrote seeking clarification as to the condition the Football League had imposed on OEG, and when ACL might receive payment, the Football League wrote back to say:

“We are not in a position to disclose the terms of the agreement between The Football League Limited and Otium Entertainment Group Limited and any queries about payment to creditors should be addressed to David Ruben & Partners as Administrators of Coventry City Football Club Limited. They are in possession of the funds arising out of the sale of assets to Otium Entertainment Group Limited.”

Here's that link you were after Grendull.

Thanks Rusty.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Labovitch thinks the amount agreed was £590k.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-official-insists-club-7087138

However, CCFC non-executive director Mark Labovitch has moved to assure supporters the amount will be paid - although he was unclear if the transaction would take place before the Football League’s deadline.

The £590,000 is the amount ACL would have received for unpaid rent if a company voluntary agreement (CVA) had been signed at the start of the season.

He said: “Whatever the outcome of the liquidation we will pay them (ACL) what they would have recovered if they had accepted the CVA.

“I can’t comment on the bank transfer mechanics but we honour our agreements with our industry body - end of.

“There are two modalities of timing, one was the end of May. The other was at the end of the liquidation process. The long and the short of it is, if we make an agreement with the Football League, we will honour it.”

 

[martcov]

The "reported" deal - slither, slither, backtrack backtrack.

No. Not slither, slither. ( BTW in your case it is normally "wriggle, wriggle" when questioned ). It is established fact as statements have been reported many times and never denied. Even ML has confirmed it - now I must get back to work.

 

[Ian1779]

How was it related to the golden share deal? When they made their guarantees CCFC were not in administration They obviously did not even foresee this situation. The FL did not necessarily even know about the guarantees when they made the deal. They just made ( I am assuming as a reasonabvle action ) the 590K condition to shut ACL, and critics of the golden share trick up in order that the show - the league fixtures - could go on.

If it is not related to the golden share deal... (which was in essence for the loss of rent that they had) then why the need for ACL to activate the guarantor aspect?

Why would there even be a guarantor deal in place if it was not connected to the rent?

 

[Grendel]

Here's that link you were after Grendull.

Thanks Rusty.

Er.....have you actually read what that says?

 

[Hobo]

The "reported" deal - slither, slither, backtrack backtrack.

Sick of you trying to promote yourself. The biggest hypocritical and opinionated slug on the forum. You burnt your business reputation claiming SISU deliberately lost the JR after backing them to win it.

You have a reputation of backing two horses and changing horses mid stream. Anyone who feels the need to quote their salary to gain credibility? Well I will let the floor decide?

But you have obviously supported CCFC your whole life, I respect your opinion on players and your credibility as a fan; but your claims as an international business negotiator smacks of delusion.

 

[skybluetony176]

To be fair it does mean that MM and GR should have every right to pursue SISU for that money.

So sisu may as well pay it in full (as that is what it will end up costing them anyway if MM & GR get their money back from sisu) and stop pissing around taking risks with our football club and if MM & GR feel they have a right to pursue a refund they can do so against ACL.

 

[Grendel]

No. Not slither, slither. ( BTW in your case it is normally "wriggle, wriggle" when questioned ). It is established fact as statements have been reported many times and never denied. Even ML has confirmed it - now I must get back to work.

So you have no evidence and have been taking out your arse. Back to work? May come in for a Mcflurry later on - perhaps Rupert will serve it?

 

[Ian1779]

So sisu may as well pay it in full (as that is what it will end up costing them anyway if MM & GR get their money back from sisu) and stop pissing around taking risks with our football club and if MM & GR feel they have a right to pursue a refund they can do so against ACL.

I guess that would be another way to do it.

EDIT: If that occurred could you see fans creating about ACL holding onto money they rightfully owed other people in the same way they do about SISU? I somehow doubt it.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I would guess that they have a bad credit rating, at least with ACL. A prudent business would only deal with them on a cash up front basis. No credit.

In this case, ACL seem to be acting as a prudent business.

Fair enough. That isn't a barrier to discussing a deal is it? They've created a false barrier.

 

[fernandopartridge]

It's not reported it's a fact. See link above. Even your beloved ML agrees it's the deal.

It's a report

 

[skybluetony176]

I guess that would be another way to do it.

If our owners were the least bit concerned about what happens to our club it would be the only way to do it.

 

[skybluetony176]

Fair enough. That isn't a barrier to discussing a deal is it? They've created a false barrier.

A false barrier like a JR you're never going to win (we can say this with confidence now it's over. I bet sisu still can't believe that they won appeal to have it heard) or to pursue an appeal on the battering you took in the actual JR.

Are they the type of barriers you mean?

 

[Kingokings204]

It's a report

You know what I meant. Another poster called it false anyway.

590k is owed. Simples as that.

 

[torchomatic]

I still want to know if they are going to get £890K. That can;t be right, can it?

Do you have proof that they need the cash? Is there any recent accounts available to view?

 

[Godiva]

So sisu may as well pay it in full (as that is what it will end up costing them anyway if MM & GR get their money back from sisu) and stop pissing around taking risks with our football club and if MM & GR feel they have a right to pursue a refund they can do so against ACL.

You forget the discount.
ACL settled the £500t for £300t.
That mean ACL have written off £200t whichever way you go.
They main issue is if the FL accepts the money paid by McGinnity/Robinson is part of the money Otium owed ACL. If not ACL are still owed £590t - but if it is ACL are only owed £90t.

 

[Hobo]

Fair enough. That isn't a barrier to discussing a deal is it? They've created a false barrier.

My brother in law runs a pro forma business only. Some customers find that hard to accept and it dents their pride. My brother in law relies on product quality to sell up front. It works for him and no account is going to take him under. SISU have lost his hospitality package and custom by moving.

The only barriers in business are set by people in it. I know someone who operates in a very competitive market his margins are ridiculously small, but his turnover compensates that.... He turns it once a day amazing! Some retailers do that 5 times a year!

To move this situation forward we need compromises but we also need firm foundations. The ball has been in the SISU court along time. They took us to Northampton only they can bring us back or to another destination...the table awaits them!

 

[dongonzalos]

I know you have had a dialogue with the league Don and along with Martcov are clearly in the know. Can you please provide evidence to the effect that the league are saying the £300,000 payment is not related to the £590,000?

The dialogue I have had with them was regarding what would happen in two years time if there is not sufficient progress on the new stadium build.
They replied most likely expulsion from the league.
I would say the contract the guarantors signed would show the definitive proof.
The quote above is from the CET.

 

[skybluetony176]

You forget the discount.
ACL settled the £500t for £300t.
That mean ACL have written off £200t whichever way you go.
They main issue is if the FL accepts the money paid by McGinnity/Robinson is part of the money Otium owed ACL. If not ACL are still owed £590t - but if it is ACL are only owed £90t.

So MM & GR actually own over 80% of the golden share then. Revelation.

Perhaps they should buy the rest of the club and bring us home. Shouldn't cost them too much more as without the golden share the clubs worthless.

 

[wingy]

God debate and points here lads ,keep It adult !!:claping hands: