Sisu will not drop JR appeal (7 Viewers)

[sky blue john]

So if I am correct this is the general consensus:

ACL should:
- sit back and wait for ...

Sisu should:
- Withdraw the appeal
- Pay £590k to ACL
- Call ACL and ask for 'negotiations'
- Accept any rent deal offered (we expect approximately £400k p.a.)
- Abstain from any match day revenues
- Pay the penalty to Northampton for breaking the agreement there
- Return to the Ricoh and accept the scene is set for sisu-out-campaign 2.0

That's just about it, right?

Maybe you would be happier for CCFC to stay at sixfields ?
A return is going to need Sisu to compromise along with Acl. Which has about 5% chance of happening at best.

 

---

[torchomatic]

Where does he say that he'd be happier at Sixfields?

We want to come back to the Ricoh and at the end of the day it doesn't matter who has to swallow the most pride.

Maybe you would be happier for CCFC to stay at sixfields ?
A return is going to need Sisu to compromise along with Acl. Which has about 5% chance of happening at best.

 

[Godiva]

So if I am correct this is the general consensus:

ACL should:
- sit back and wait for ...

Sisu should:
- Withdraw the appeal
- Pay £590k to ACL
- Call ACL and ask for 'negotiations'
- Accept any rent deal offered (we expect approximately £400k p.a.)
- Abstain from any match day revenues
- Pay the penalty to Northampton for breaking the agreement there
- Return to the Ricoh and accept the scene is set for sisu-out-campaign 2.0

That's just about it, right?

Maybe you would be happier for CCFC to stay at sixfields ?
A return is going to need Sisu to compromise along with Acl. Which has about 5% chance of happening at best.

Ok - where should ACL compromise?

 

[Kingokings204]

So if I am correct this is the general consensus:

ACL should:
- sit back and wait for ...

Sisu should:
- Withdraw the appeal
- Pay £590k to ACL
- Call ACL and ask for 'negotiations'
- Accept any rent deal offered (we expect approximately £400k p.a.)
- Abstain from any match day revenues
- Pay the penalty to Northampton for breaking the agreement there
- Return to the Ricoh and accept the scene is set for sisu-out-campaign 2.0

That's just about it, right?

Or we stay at sixfields and the club dies?

Tough one isn't it

 

[torchomatic]

So you're not saying ACL CAN'T do anything you're saying they SHOULDN'T?

Or we stay at sixfields and the club dies?

Tough one isn't it

 

[skybluetony176]

Well the government negotiated with the IRA and they were up to more than "silly games".

There's no proof either side want to seriously enter talks, is there? Fisher with his spiel and Lucas saying she is happy to talk to the "football club or anyone else". So there is risk all round but if there's a chance that it will bring us home then it's a risk worth taking.

After all when we have nothing then there's nothing to lose.

Just so I'm clear. Have we now officially moved on from using Nazi's as a measuring stick to the IRA? Only I didn't get a memo.

 

[lapsed_skyblue]

I would hope for baby steps...
SISU call ACL.
The only precondition set by ACL is that SISU turn up with an offer for a short term rental deal (not a list of demands, vague statements).
The meeting is adjourned while ACL consider the offer.

This is probably where it all falls apart. The offer will probably include terms that ACL cannot deliver without going bust.
But maybe it will be a basis for further talks.

 

[dadgad]

Exactly, why would you? Been proved beyond doubt they have been lying to us for over 2 years at least now Ricoh arena saga alone.

I can only think they thought ccc would back down before court, court has done nothing for them except to prove they lie and bully others.

In a nutshell.

 

[torchomatic]

You're obviously not on the mailing list. Just sayin' there's no reason why both sides can't talk regardless of what has happened in the past.

Oh, I'll never use a Nazi analogy.

Just so I'm clear. Have we now officially moved on from using Nazi's as a measuring stick to the IRA? Only I didn't get a memo.

 

[Grendel]

Just so I'm clear. Have we now officially moved on from using Nazi's as a measuring stick to the IRA? Only I didn't get a memo.

Who from? Nigel Farage or one of the other closet fascists you support?

 

[Godiva]

I would hope for baby steps...
SISU call ACL.
The only precondition set by ACL is that SISU turn up with an offer for a short term rental deal (not a list of demands, vague statements).
The meeting is adjourned while ACL consider the offer.

This is probably where it all falls apart. The offer will probably include terms that ACL cannot deliver without going bust.
But maybe it will be a basis for further talks.

Hmm - according to previous statements ACL does have a few preconditions:

The operators of the Ricoh Arena have said the Sky Blues must pay the £590,000 it owes them before it will consider any possible return of the football club to the stadium.Arena Coventry Limited also accused club officials of creating a “smokescreen” to divert the attention of supporters from the fact it had not fulfilled its obligations with the Football League.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/ricoh-arena-firm-coventry-city-7402539

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Hmm - according to previous statements ACL does have a few preconditions:


http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/ricoh-arena-firm-coventry-city-7402539

tbf, he is suggesting they should drop that demand.

 

[Kingokings204]

So you're not saying ACL CAN'T do anything you're saying they SHOULDN'T?

I'm saying if we kick off at sixfields come August then ccfc will die. I don't care if ACL offer rent for 10k or 2m. It's about Coventry playing in Coventry and even at 2m it makes more financial sense to be back home.

(Obviously I'm using 2 mil as a point so what I think)

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Again, that's true. But one of the key elements of any negotiation is trust. The deal 'agreed' by Fisher was touched on in the JR. There was no smoking gun associated with it. SISU reneged. Now look at the stadium situation. There isn't one, is there?

This is a silly way of negotiating. Like the Judicial Review, and the rent strike. Successive judges have seen the actions for what they are. Surely ACL/CCC do too.

All this posturing has to stop. Then sit down to negotiate properly. This is an impossible backdrop from which to try to negotiate a deal

I agree with a lot of what your saying MMM. The posturing has to stop and sensible negotiations should now take place.

Trust is needed on both sides, I am not saying either side is liable but remember trust is a two way street.

I hope a deal is sorted as I said both sides have something to offer the other IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kingokings204]

I'm saying if we kick off at sixfields come August then ccfc will die. I don't care if ACL offer rent for 10k or 2m. It's about Coventry playing in Coventry and even at 2m it makes more financial sense to be back home.

(Obviously I'm using 2 mil as a point so not what I think)

 

[cloughie]

So if I am correct this is the general consensus:

ACL should:
- sit back and wait for ...

Sisu should:
- Withdraw the appeal
- Pay £590k to ACL
- Call ACL and ask for 'negotiations'
- Accept any rent deal offered (we expect approximately £400k p.a.)
- Abstain from any match day revenues
- Pay the penalty to Northampton for breaking the agreement there
- Return to the Ricoh and accept the scene is set for sisu-out-campaign 2.0

That's just about it, right?

nonfactual again

' Accept any rent deal offered'. where has this ever been said and by who other than you?

'Pay the penalty to Northampton for breaking the agreement there.'

Well we only have a proven liars word for that

Return to the Ricoh and accept the scene is set for sisu-out-campaign 2.0

Your opinion not fact

 

[Grendel]

I'm saying if we kick off at sixfields come August then ccfc will die. I don't care if ACL offer rent for 10k or 2m. It's about Coventry playing in Coventry and even at 2m it makes more financial sense to be back home.

(Obviously I'm using 2 mil as a point so what I think)

Well if you want them home that much you'd better campaign for a great deal for the club. Otherwise get used to sixfields for a while longer.

 

[Houdi]

Surely the legal process must be followed through to conclusion, even if that is the appeal process?
They would look mighty weak if they retract that now. But they are asking for talks even referencing to a return to the Ricoh.
So lets talk about it. ACL can respond very easily so lets hope they do and see what can be achieved.

You all want to say everything is 'bollocks' or just stop all that has gone on and return without thought of the historical situation over this last few years.
Stop talking about pie money, it's got no bearing.
Please also remember if SISU are distressing ACL what is the end game of that? It won't automatically give them the Ricoh!

I hate that I sound like I'm supporting SISU here but they have finally made suggestion of a compromise being found to bring the club home for a while at least and who knows what bridges can then be mended?

ACL have nothing to lose and everything to gain themselves and the satisfaction SISU are crawling back somewhat with the fans at everyone's mercy holding breath that these protagonist can deliver something for these hard done by fans.
If SISU go on to lose the appeal then ACL are looking good having already agreed a return short term. The pressure on SISU at that point would be immense unless they could produce a new stadium!

So you are stating that if SISU were to drop their appeal, despite most people saying it is utterly pointless, that it would make them look 'mighty weak.'Therefore using that logic, you would surely apply the same advice to ACL who have clearly stated their terms for a resumption of talks, ie the payment of the £590,000 and the dropping of legal threats.
For them to suddenly cave in and ignore their clear pre negotiation demands, will surely make them look incredibly weak. Or are you only worried about SISU having a loss of face.

 

[Grendel]

I'm saying if we kick off at sixfields come August then ccfc will die. I don't care if ACL offer rent for 10k or 2m. It's about Coventry playing in Coventry and even at 2m it makes more financial sense to be back home.

(Obviously I'm using 2 mil as a point so what I think)

nonfactual again

' Accept any rent deal offered'. where has this ever been said and by who other than you?

Snigger snigger

 

[Gosford Green]

Is there an ACAS type arbitration body in Sport or a person that might do a passable impression of Bill Clinton and get them sat around a table at the least talking?

Or are SISU as impossible to deal with as people have said they are.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Mr Fisher insisted the club would pay ACL whatever amount the Football League deemed appropriate.

Errrm...the FL deemed it appropriate that you - OTIUM as in, NOT the Club! - pay £590k. You haven't paid it. Now you're using the guarantor payments as leverage to not pay what is deemed appropriate by the said FL. Just pay the £590k & let the guarantors worry about trying to claim their cash back.

Fisher said:
“We completely understand how much the club means to fans and what a difficult period this is has been. We share their frustration with current the situation."
Sadly - I, at least, DO NOT & CAN NOT BELIEVE A WORD YOU SAY. I certainly don't believe you understand or even really begin to try to understand how much the Club means to us fans. As for frustration...the only frustration you feel is for the monetary loss, & that associated with not getting everything your own way.


PUSB

 

[cloughie]

Snigger snigger

quite appropriate from the forum clown .......................crusty the clown you have become so boring,

 

[rupert_bear]

ACL should definitely hold talks with Sepalla and co and dropping legal actions should be part of any negotiation. Not talking at all is ammo for the opposition.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Is there an ACAS type arbitration body in Sport or a person that might do a passable impression of Bill Clinton and get them sat around a table at the least talking?

Or are SISU as impossible to deal with as people have said they are.

Back in the day, it was ACL who rejected outright the idea of mediation or arbitration. Might well be worth revisiting the idea however (another Trust Q&A please?) as events may have sharpened minds.

Other arguments against going that way were time and cost but... again, I think subsequent events suggest the time and cost pales into insignificance now!

 

[Godiva]

Mr Fisher insisted the club would pay ACL whatever amount the Football League deemed appropriate.

Errrm...the FL deemed it appropriate that you - OTIUM as in, NOT the Club! - pay £590k. You haven't paid it. Now you're using the guarantor payments as leverage to not pay what is deemed appropriate by the said FL. Just pay the £590k & let the guarantors worry about trying to claim their cash back.

Fisher said:
“We completely understand how much the club means to fans and what a difficult period this is has been. We share their frustration with current the situation."
Sadly - I, at least, DO NOT & CAN NOT BELIEVE A WORD YOU SAY. I certainly don't believe you understand or even really begin to try to understand how much the Club means to us fans. As for frustration...the only frustration you feel is for the monetary loss, & that associated with not getting everything your own way.


PUSB

Otium is the club, isn't it?

 

[Kingokings204]

Snigger snigger

I was just trying to make a point tbh Grendel, I don't actually think ccfc should pay 2mil in rent.

My point being if rent was 2 mil then that would still be better than sixfields by a long way financially not that I want ccfc to pay 2m to ACL at all.

I don't like ACL as much as probably anyone else for numerous reasons but they haven't dragged the club through court for financial gain to us supporters pain.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Otium is the club, isn't it?

Otium Entertainment Group Ltd. trading as Coventry City Football Club.

Nice...

 

[No future with SISU]

He's not excusing their behaviour but drawing a parallel to everyone's favourite management companies behaviour.

ACL are saints compared to what SISU have done.Just read the court papers of the JR, they are on the internet.

 

[No future with SISU]

Well if you want them home that much you'd better campaign for a great deal for the club. Otherwise get used to sixfields for a while longer.

Do you not mean a great deal for SISU?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Otium is the club, isn't it?

No the FANs are the Club.
Everything else moves on & purchased replacements are made, owners move on & someone else most often comes in to chance their luck. The fans are the only consistent feature (unless you're CCFC where the owners relocate).
Otium operate their foul deeds in the guise of CCFC because they care so much that it suits them to sully the name Coventry City FC rather than their own.


PUSB

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Everything he says is wrong.

When have they ever done what they said they would except follow up on court cases???

I have met all of them a few times came away thinking great we will be back only to find out I was lied to again.

Refused to meet fisher last time and I wasn't the only one, because I am fed up of all the Bullshit.

He did feel embarrassed I believe when only 3 turned up to the last mini forum.

About time they changed their personnel to some one who cares personally I don't care!!!! when it comes to sisu.

nothing fisher says there is wrong really. lets hope acl/council do their bit now.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

It was all lies do you not understand that!!!

So fisher and co said oh and a few posters on here..

I hope they go back to court Sisu are shown up again for what they really are charged full expenses pay out 3 million and go bust.

But some will still say they were right.

ACL are saints compared to what SISU have done.Just read the court papers of the JR, they are on the internet.

 

[shmmeee]

Well if you want them home that much you'd better campaign for a great deal for the club. Otherwise get used to sixfields for a while longer.

Ah the old "give them what they want and maybe they'll go away" ploy.

Used by every great leader in history that.

You are a smart man G, you know the game is still bankrupting ACL.

You say why should dropping the legals be a precondition to talks. I ask why should F&B be a prerequisite for a short term deal?

Only one side has ever compromised in this and it's not Sisu. All the "they're all as bad as each other" platitudes don't excuse that.

Wake me up when Sisus position is changed from the last 18 months. Maybe then we can think about City coming home.

 

[shmmeee]

With my solution focused thinkin hat on.

I wonder if the trust issue could be got around with a third party accountant confirming the books for F&B calculations, but obscuring full details from Sisu.

Or maybe a flat fee for using the kiosks/kitchens on matchdays with the club taking care of stock and staff.

If I was ACL I'd start with a free rent offer and a promise to talk about revenue in a long term deal and work from there.

 

[shmmeee]

Also: as has been stated Sisu want AEG to run the Ricoh. AEG's preferred supplier for food is Compass, Compass own half of AEG's catering arm.

So exactly how much scope is there for Sisu/AEG to increase profit margins?