CCLSC conversation with TF (23 Viewers)

[sw88]

The FL rules are that you can't move grounds mid season. However the FL have said this rule can be discretionary and they would support city going back to the Ricoh as long as it was a permanent or long term deal.

We know all to well about the FL using their discretion against what is in black and white aka the rule book!

 

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[wingy]

We know all to well about the FL using their discretion against what is in black and white aka the rule book!

Clearly no one Is talking about a longterm deal here either .

 

[AJB1983]

All this shit fisher spouts about a 'competitive league one rent'.

No such thing. It's so variable. Ok reduced revenues from dropping into league one should have been factored in, but unless every club is the same size playing in the same stadium then it's bollocks.

Example, Peterborough pay over £300k a year to play at the shithole that is Londom Rd.
Sisu want £100k a year to play at Ricoh?..,,,nah

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/23424837

 

[Houdi]

They should continue with The JR because appeal is a corner stone in the legal system. The appeal mechanism is there to protect you and me - everyone. To deprive sisu their right to appeal is simply wrong.
If they are granted right to appeal soon it could potentially benefit the club, but if they have to go to the EU commission it might just take too long. Still they have the right to do it - and they should.

I'm not sure ACL are depriving them of their right to appeal, they are just exercising their own right not to enter any negotiations with a company who as the judge implied is trying to drive them out of business. Yes SISU have rights ,but so do ACL. Not sure why you would think any quick appeal would benefit the club. Firstly it hardly helps heal the divide, and secondly what evidence is there of any different result next time round, unless you are suggesting the High Court Judge was serially incompetent. Most people wil see it as SISU desperately clutching at straws

 

[Godiva]

But it's not a bargaining tool as ACL could still refinance elsewhere now that they are ticking over in 'safe mode'.
IMHO the £590K would further secure the business case and I believe SISU know this, hence the reluctance to hand it over.

If ACL are struggling they won't get refinanced through a bank or other lender easily and definitely not on equally cheap conditions.

I agree that £590K (if they get that!) plus the £300K from MM/GR PLUS the £400K they received from the council (on top of the £14m to buy out the bank) should probably stabilize their cash position for some time, but if they are not making a profit then it's just borrowed time.

As a CCFC fan it would be nice if CCC said we give up and CCFC can have the Ricoh bowl and all within it for a silly £20M.
But in reality this is not going to happen so SISU need to take this on board.
CCC/ACL need to understand the long term problems of the club and accommodate them as best they can.

How would that work? I assume you are talking about selling the shares in ACL to the club/SBS&L? What about the council loan? Should the Higgs 50% shares be bought at the same amount the CCC shares? Are Higgs shares 10m worth?
What do you suggest?

 

[Godiva]

I'm not sure ACL are depriving them of their right to appeal, they are just exercising their own right not to enter any negotiations with a company who as the judge implied is trying to drive them out of business. Yes SISU have rights ,but so do ACL. Not sure why you would think any quick appeal would benefit the club. Firstly it hardly helps heal the divide, and secondly what evidence is there of any different result next time round, unless you are suggesting the High Court Judge was serially incompetent. Most people wil see it as SISU desperately clutching at straws

I fully agree both have rights. ACL have the right to issue their ultimatum. Sisu have rights to appeal.
Now how do we get them to the table without taking away their rights?
It can't work. Something have to give.

So the next question - can the club play at the Ricoh while sisu pursue their appeals?

 

[Kingokings204]

Anybody would reject a CVA when you were guaranteed the payment regardless

Laughable and factually incorrect. Sorry

 

[Kingokings204]

What if ACL said to sisu yes you can come back but the rent is 600k. Then what?

As said Peterborough pay 300k rent for a dump and we pay 175k for a dump ourselves so ACL are entitled to ask for 5-600k no?

So what then do sisu carry on at Northampton regardless and suffer themselves?

My 2 points are the Ricoh is miles better than London road at 300k and point 2 is even at 600k sisu would make millions more as a fact.

If they want 175k rent I wouldn't blame ACL for saying no chance.

 

[sky blue john]

I fully agree both have rights. ACL have the right to issue their ultimatum. Sisu have rights to appeal.
Now how do we get them to the table without taking away their rights?
It can't work. Something have to give.

So the next question - can the club play at the Ricoh while sisu pursue their appeals?

I'm willing to have a wager that a Sisu owned CCFC will not play at the Ricoh whilst Sisu are pursuing appeals !!

 

[Houdi]

I fully agree both have rights. ACL have the right to issue their ultimatum. Sisu have rights to appeal.
Now how do we get them to the table without taking away their rights?
It can't work. Something have to give.

So the next question - can the club play at the Ricoh while sisu pursue their appeals?

Yes agree something has to give, but why should it be ACL who make the concession. Just because SISU demand it, doesn't mean they should get it.
Again there is no real evidence that they would win any appeal, and even if did, it would only mean probably more costly legal actions. Surely fans on both sides of this argument are heartily sick of successive court cases. Equally there is no evidence presently that ACL is in any sort of financial problem. Wishful thinking doesn't equate to actual reality.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Laughable and factually incorrect. Sorry

What's factually incorrect?

 

[Grendel]

What if ACL said to sisu yes you can come back but the rent is 600k. Then what?

As said Peterborough pay 300k rent for a dump and we pay 175k for a dump ourselves so ACL are entitled to ask for 5-600k no?

So what then do sisu carry on at Northampton regardless and suffer themselves?

My 2 points are the Ricoh is miles better than London road at 300k and point 2 is even at 600k sisu would make millions more as a fact.

If they want 175k rent I wouldn't blame ACL for saying no chance.

The ground itself is irrelevant in determining costs to rent - its demand. Who would pay that - no one?

Swansea pay very little and forest and Ipswich pay less than £175,000 - are they poor grounds?

 

[fernandopartridge]

What if ACL said to sisu yes you can come back but the rent is 600k. Then what?

As said Peterborough pay 300k rent for a dump and we pay 175k for a dump ourselves so ACL are entitled to ask for 5-600k no?

So what then do sisu carry on at Northampton regardless and suffer themselves?

My 2 points are the Ricoh is miles better than London road at 300k and point 2 is even at 600k sisu would make millions more as a fact.

If they want 175k rent I wouldn't blame ACL for saying no chance.

Laughable

 

[Kingokings204]

The ground itself is irrelevant in determining costs to rent - its demand. Who would pay that - no one?

Swansea pay very little and forest and Ipswich pay less than £175,000 - are they poor grounds?

but my point is ACL can charge sisu want they want. It would still be millions better than sixfields. ACL would know this so why wouldn't they?

Also are you crazy of course the stadium is of relevance. Show a player round the Ricoh or a sponsor or show them round sixfields. Come on. You get what you pay for in life. A primark pair of jeans or an Armani pair. Simple really.

 

[sky blue john]

What if ACL said to sisu yes you can come back but the rent is 600k. Then what?

As said Peterborough pay 300k rent for a dump and we pay 175k for a dump ourselves so ACL are entitled to ask for 5-600k no?

So what then do sisu carry on at Northampton regardless and suffer themselves?

My 2 points are the Ricoh is miles better than London road at 300k and point 2 is even at 600k sisu would make millions more as a fact.

If they want 175k rent I wouldn't blame ACL for saying no chance.

In Godiva's world he thinks it perfectly feasible for Acl to accept 175k a year deal and also allow Sisu to continue to sue !

 

[Kingokings204]

What's factually incorrect?

Everything you say.

 

[Kingokings204]

In Godiva's world he thinks it perfectly feasible for Acl to accept 175k a year deal and also allow Sisu to continue to sue !

I know that's what worries me. ACL hold all the cards. Sisu hold none. If it wasn't for the Coventry fans and the community ACL would of ditched these shysters years ago like any normal business would. The fact they still talk to this lot and talk of a deal happening baffles me. The only reason it is still a Chance is because football isn't a normal business and ACL have to do the best for the council and it's community which is us and some people want a caymen islands proven liers hedgefund to prosper. Great.

 

[Grendel]

but my point is ACL can charge sisu want they want. It would still be millions better than sixfields. ACL would know this so why wouldn't they?

Also are you crazy of course the stadium is of relevance. Show a player round the Ricoh or a sponsor or show them round sixfields. Come on. You get what you pay for in life. A primark pair of jeans or an Armani pair. Simple really.

It is irrelevant - it's down to supply and demand. I repeat Swansea, Ipswich and the City Ground have less rental costs than £175,000. I think you will find they match the Ricoh for concerts and are easily impressive enough for sponsors. Without the club it seems there will be no sponsor and that revenue will be pocketed by ACL.

At the moment they have no tenant and no tenant on the horizon so they are not in a great bargaining position themselves.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Everything you say.

You're not a div

 

[shy_tall_knight]

It is irrelevant - it's down to supply and demand. I repeat Swansea, Ipswich and the City Ground have less rental costs than £175,000. I think you will find they match the Ricoh for concerts and are easily impressive enough for sponsors. Without the club it seems there will be no sponsor and that revenue will be pocketed by ACL.

At the moment they have no tenant and no tenant on the horizon so they are not in a great bargaining position themselves.

Disagree ACL are not desperate but SISU are very desperate, the folly of Sixfields and the lost revenues and the lost court cases SISU need the Ricoh more than ACL need CCFC. Supply & demand - when there is not a proper market for football grounds is nonsense.

 

[Grendel]

Disagree ACL are not desperate but SISU are very desperate, the folly of Sixfields and the lost revenues and the lost court cases SISU need the Ricoh more than ACL need CCFC. Supply & demand - when there is not a proper market for football grounds is nonsense.

So no sponsor after next year, no revenue from the largest fixed out and bills for continued maintenance isn't a problem? If its that great why haven't they attracted another sports franchise and got them to pay £600,000?

 

[shy_tall_knight]

So no sponsor after next year, no revenue from the largest fixed out and bills for continued maintenance isn't a problem? If its that great why haven't they attracted another sports franchise and got them to pay £600,000?

ACL still aren't desperate or to put it another way not as desperate as SISU, SISU without the stadium will eventually cease to exist, IMO that is desperation

 

[Grendel]

ACL still aren't desperate or to put it another way not as desperate as SISU, SISU without the stadium will eventually cease to exist, IMO that is desperation

Sisu will not cease to exist - the club will - and you'd be hard pressed to spin an argument that ACL will be funding a loan on a ground for 43 years with no tenant.

 

[skybluetony176]

Sisu will not cease to exist - the club will - and you'd be hard pressed to spin an argument that ACL will be funding a loan on a ground for 43 years with no tenant.

If the club does cease to exist do you think that there is no chance of a pheonix club wanting to play there?

 

[Grendel]

If the club does cease to exist do you think that there is no chance of a pheonix club wanting to play there?

Apparently it's worth £600,000 a year to rent so no.

 

[italiahorse]

Why the insistence that the case is dropped then?

..... because you can't negotiate with someone taking you on in court. Could you ?

 

[shy_tall_knight]

You are right SISU may continue, its SISU owned CCFC that is now desperate. I am confident that in 5 years time there will be a professional football club playing at the Ricoh either CCFC or Phoenix.

 

[Kingokings204]

It is irrelevant - it's down to supply and demand. I repeat Swansea, Ipswich and the City Ground have less rental costs than £175,000. I think you will find they match the Ricoh for concerts and are easily impressive enough for sponsors. Without the club it seems there will be no sponsor and that revenue will be pocketed by ACL.

At the moment they have no tenant and no tenant on the horizon so they are not in a great bargaining position themselves.

I do see that kind of the argument as well don't get me wrong but Ricoh or sixfields are the only two choices and we all know what's better.

 

[italiahorse]

Sisu will not cease to exist - the club will - and you'd be hard pressed to spin an argument that ACL will be funding a loan on a ground for 43 years with no tenant.

The club will always exist in some form. Just waiting to see how low Sisu take us then we can restart.
Do Glasgow Rangers still exist ?

 

[shmmeee]

I can understand Sisu continuing to sue if it's a short term deal done at arms length.

But if you're asking to enter into a close relationship, that will have to involve full financial disclosure, wouldn't you be asking for a show of intent first?

I can totally understand some saying "do whatever is needed", but I can understand the reluctance to open books for someone currently taking you to court.

However, were Sisu to drop the legal action, that would show trustworthiness and the ball (IMO) would be in ACL's court. Similarly, if Sisu no longer were requesting access to revenues as a starting point, ACL wouldn't have a valid reason to not start talking until the JR is over.

In the interests of speed of resolution, it's far quicker for Sisu to drop their immediate demands (not their long term ones) to facilitate a return than it is for ACL and Sisu to agree on match-day revenues, even if Sisu dropped the appeal tomorrow. Negotiations about the long term viability of the Ricoh and a potential smooth exit can be discussed without further damage to the club.

 

[Kingokings204]

Or the record I don't think it's worth 600k rent I was just making the point that if London road is 300k then Ricoh should be around that figure?

Also I was pointing out ACL to me hold all the cards. If they said to sisu yeah come back but it's 600k what do sisu do? Keep paying 175k at sixfields and destroying the club and therefore it's money.

It's all relevant.

 

[Kingokings204]

Again I repeat what's also to stop ACL saying ccfc are more than welcome back but without sisu in charge. They hate sisu not ccfc.

In any other business affair if this saga played out between 2 companies then they would never talk to eachother again.

This is what the majority of fans want on the CT comments board. They want ccfc back but no sisu. They would rather ccfc stayed in sixfields whilst under sisu and to quote them "it's like doing a deal with the devil" you don't get into bed with people who have already tried to screw you over. Surely?

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

It's a contract between ACL and Compass. The club can only ask those companies if they agree the club can have the F/B revenue.

But this thread again illuminates the fundamental issues of having the club and ACL owned by two different owners with two different objectives.

You're right then why dont Sisu offer to buy ACL at a sensible price FFS rather than playing all these stupid games that in the end will in the end cost them twice as much :facepalm:Buisness people my arse WANKERS

 

[wingy]

There are no signs to me SISU are desperate ..

However they do need to carry the fans with them whichever route they go ..

The only significant sign of anything extraordinary going on has been the fact that SHE has revealed /Indentified herself ,albeit limitedly.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

The club will always exist in some form. Just waiting to see how low Sisu take us then we can restart.
Do Glasgow Rangers still exist ?

If it had been any other team rather than Rangers or Celtic they wouldn't. Do you really think we would be looked at in the same way I doubt it!