skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Wasn't that part of sisu's argument against ACL? ACL were conspiring behind their back and thats not fair.
Appeal Decision? (20 Viewers)
- Thread starter skybluetony176
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Wasn't that part of sisu's argument against ACL? ACL were conspiring behind their back and thats not fair.
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
and not paid for the previously agreed rental plan and disputing the agreed CVA plan.
Covstu
Well-Known Member
Well they clearly have another 3 weeks to submit an appeal to the high courts which then drags this on further. I cannot see this as a major bargaining tool as the first decision wasnt even close so ACL shouldnt really have much to worry about. I doubt any appeal would overturn this decision given how strongly this was put in ACL's favour.
It would be nice for them to drop this but i doubt they will.
It would be nice for them to drop this but i doubt they will.
he isn't saying that though because I agree believing that to be the case is a reasonable position, he said earlier that sisu wanted to lose the JR and he said now they want to drag it out and the only way to do that is by losing, there is no way thats true.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
You can take the dragons den comment as tongue in check hence the following Brody link.
However nothing will change from the status quo as it is at the moment.
The appeal process will take ages it is still a bargaining chip for SISU but it no longer carries the value that it did 6 weeks ago.
The figure with the FL yes you could wait till the 7th but why not both sides just say we will both put our evidence to the FL and abide by their decision on that date as a condition that talks begin now.
SISU have the club hostage in another town
They have the JR (no chance of winning but a ball ache non the less and it is likely the council will never recoup all their costs never mind their time)
ACL have the Ricoh and the ability to save the club millions over night
Also the club increase in value in every way if it can secure a deal at the Ricoh including attractiveness to both manager and players.
I could include the threat to build a new stadium in this, but I find the concept so farcical I refuse give it any credence
Both have strengths that will not change over the next 6 months.
So get your asses into gear and play your cards in a negotiation. You need each other and you both know it so get it done.
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dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
The would have loved nothing more than win the JR. However they had a contingency plan in place for losing it. Drag it out as long as possible to use it as a bargaining chip. It is now a 10 of hearts instead of the Ace it would have been if they won.
skybluepm2
Well-Known Member
It is more wishful thinking than anything else. Maybe I'm naive in thinking that perhaps a bit of common sense will prevail. They know full well that a return to the Ricoh is dependent on them dropping all legal action and have come out and stated that they are committed to a return on a couple of occasions. ACL hold the cards now and SISU appear to be be shifting their attention back to Coventry. Surely they now know they are beaten
The're continuing with it because its the only light at the end of the tunnel.
New stadium was always a sop to the FL. Plan A (football ) was kicked into the long grass when Dann and Fox were sold .Swift exit by RR. Not a lot of plans left.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I don't understand the position from either side of no talks unless both sides agree to pre-conditions. Especially as ACL will have further demands. What's the point of putting together a complete offer before negotiations?
Let's get us home and worry about the details later.
Astute
Well-Known Member
OK Grendel shall we look at it the way you would if you were in ACL's position?
You tell us that you do the deals for who you work for. Would you be happy to do a deal with someone that hasn't paid you for nearly two years and has brought litigation against you and continues with it after being told by the legal system how wrong they are to bring such action and cost your company about 500k or more in doing so? If you had to deal with them for some reason wouldn't you want the fruitless appeals to stop first or would you be happy to deal with them whatever they did?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
How are they beaten?
They haven't moved one inch from their original demands (well they have, they've moved further away).
Nothing has happened so far that Sisu wouldn't have had a contingency plan for. Where this idea that they're on the ropes comes from I'm not sure, I can only guess wishful thinking.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
If they go as far as the EU and they overturn the decision the effects will be as far reaching as Bosman.. and this will take 3 years or more..
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
So if they won they would have contested the decisionointlaugh:
The case presented was always going to lose. More significantly if they had won what would they have achieved? It's clearly in their interests to keep ACL in the court room and create uncertainty.
I'm not approving it but it is what it is.
skybluepm2
Well-Known Member
That's good..it will coincide with the unveiling of the new sparkly stadium they're never going to build!
yes it's quite possibly the case, its certainly hard to belive that sisu think they can now win the JR, I don't know weather they are dragging it out as a bargaining chip though or if they are still attempting to distress ACL and cause the council to give up fighting,
The Latter undoubtedly.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
If you really believe that dont you think it's time you put your grudge towards all things CCC to one side and started poring scorn on the party that is destroying the club you apparently love from within?
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
If ACL don't make a significant loss in their upcoming accounts then SISU are really on a sticky wicket & ACL are in a position where they don't even have to contemplate negotiation unless SISU compromise by dropping the JR.
If CCFC don't make a loss in their upcoming accounts, then SISU will happily wait it out.. and soldjer on with the JR.
I think unfortunately we are heading for that grey area where both sides will sit & wait for the other to crack.
As always the fans lose..
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duffer
Well-Known Member
It'll have to get through the Court of Appeal and possibly the Supreme Court first. Neither is obliged to refer to the European courts unless the law isn't clear, as I understand it. The Supreme court isn't obliged to take the case either - losing at court doesn't automatically give you the right to try again at the next level. You'll have to show you've got a case.
http://www.richardbuxton.co.uk/v3.0/node/15
Either way financial suicide for SISU, I'd say. I can't see that they'll be able to return to the Ricoh for as long as it all takes, if they really do head down this road.
Given the battering they've just had, I can't see that the Court of Appeal will give them much time anyway, but then who can really tell what will happen in court. The one thing that is clear is that it makes this talk of "reconciliation" worthless, imho.
Thats my view also.
To what end?
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Didn't you say Sisu had a good case and had a chance? Sure you did such is your vendetta against ccc.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
The wind is blowing from a different direction today, LOL
skybluepm2
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by skybluepm2
It is more wishful thinking than anything else.
Let me have my moment of optimism Shmeee!!
Hobo
Well-Known Member
They have no intention of negotiating. Their press release the other day had the normal spin...proposal ready to go. Attempts to turn fans against council.
I think they will find most fans are too intelligent and can read their game plan. They are happy keeping us at Northampton. They have no interest in fan opinion and feelings or the damage they are doing. It's a real estate matter not a football club matter.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No I always said they would lose. They couldn't win due to the non payment of rent. That in itself made them a contributing factor to a financial restructure.
That does give a little hope, they need to apply to appeal within 3 weeks, then a decision about weather its allowed will be handed down on paper, if they aren't allowed to appeal, they can appeal that decision within a week and then a decision will be given at an oral hearing, if they are told no there they can't even go to the court of appeal let alone the supreme court or further. Am I reading that correctly?
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Not to sisu it isn't.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
duffer
Well-Known Member
To suggest that SISU went to court with the intention of losing the case is ludicrous. If they were so determined to lose, why did they try to have so much additional evidence entered just before the case started. Why pay for an army of expensive barristers when one cheap one would have done?
I don't doubt they've got options planned in case they failed - but let's not overdo it. They're under the cosh now. They're going to have to pay ACL something via the FL, and unless they drop the court case they're not coming back to the Ricoh. Additionally if they don't drop the court case, then all of the spin regarding "reconciliation" will be shown as just that, and all of the recent efforts to convince fans that they've changed will have been wasted.
In the meantime attendances are far below what they expected at Sixfields and the FL, inept as they are, must surely eventually tire at the continued failure to show progress at building a new stadium. There's a million-pound bond and a golden share riding on their ability to keep that bluff running.
SISU might be half-way smart, but they are not where they hoped to be at this point, I'd venture.
I don't doubt they've got options planned in case they failed - but let's not overdo it. They're under the cosh now. They're going to have to pay ACL something via the FL, and unless they drop the court case they're not coming back to the Ricoh. Additionally if they don't drop the court case, then all of the spin regarding "reconciliation" will be shown as just that, and all of the recent efforts to convince fans that they've changed will have been wasted.
In the meantime attendances are far below what they expected at Sixfields and the FL, inept as they are, must surely eventually tire at the continued failure to show progress at building a new stadium. There's a million-pound bond and a golden share riding on their ability to keep that bluff running.
SISU might be half-way smart, but they are not where they hoped to be at this point, I'd venture.
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Hobo
Well-Known Member
But it is to Coventry City Football Club!
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
would it be fair to also assume that the Higgs case was also an attempt to obtain more evidence for the JR? Hence, the ridiculous counter claim so it went to crown court instead of county (think i have that right?)
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
But sisu are bashing the CCC. Clearly thats more important to Grendull
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I agree but the strategy is pretty transparent.
Look at the ACL level of business - it has declined. The actual arena hosts far less events than it did when the club was there. The sponsor may not renew. From sisus stance the conclusion they have drawn is obviously that the lack of club or continued litigation is causing problems. Either way the tactic will not change.
The suggestion that they are on the ropes is ludicrous. A lot seems to be based on fishers assertion that they needed 3,000 fans. Really? Fisher says a lot of things. The club is as financially stable on a day to day basis as it has been since they took over. Investors are getting a return from interest payments. Debt restructuring means court fees are no concern. It's seen as a legitimate charge to a long term aim.
The appeals will fail but they will still appeal - why if they think they can win - does anyone think they will win? Have the costs been determined yet? I'm sure an appeal is on the cards there as well.
The attrition carries on.