Appeal Decision? (30 Viewers)

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K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
Look, paint it all how you want. Sisu need to come home. That's the long and short of it. To think they want and can stay in Northampton is just wrong.

They won't be able to get out of these costs. The court system is a lot firmer than the fl I would hope.
 
bigfatronssba

bigfatronssba

Well-Known Member
Interesting that ACL have to meet their own costs.

Makes it even less likely they will drop the condition of stopping legal proceedings before talks imo.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
The judge also said that he thinks that the court of appeal won't listen either.

So Sisu's next step is to apply for court of appeal but according to the judge, he has already said they will dismiss it. He is trying to do sisu a favor and save their time and money but they don't seem to see it.

So in theory sisu actually haven't got an appeal they have just asked for appeals but all will be rejected. Judges words not mine.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Rob S said:
OSB started a thread yesterday which goes into the logistics of a rent deal in a lot more detail and timescales are part of that. No return for the first game and that's never something I subscribed to in the first place.

My assumption is that the FL have people (lawyers, consultants, a sub-committee, whatever) looking into the issue with a remit to report back to the next FL board meeting and no amount of demands from clubs, stadium operating companies or fans will change that. Forget the idea of being home for the first game.
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So almost 2 months in they cant work it out. Who's leading this sub committee? PA?

As a fan I will never forget the Idea of the club i support playing its first home game of the season at home not "home" and i find it quite suprising that another fan does.
 
N

No future with SISU

New Member
Grendel said:
They set up a business model doomed for failure. The club has gone backwards ever since we entered the Ricoh arena. I wish I'd never set eyes on it. Whatever spin you put on it the losses have escalated the misery has been progressively worse and not once have they helped.
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The club was going backwards at Highfield road, it is why they had £60m of debt then. The ground was falling apart and could only hold 24,000, which ment they could not compete in the prem. That is why they decided to build a new stadium, but their debt forced the council to bail them out to get the stadium built. Then Higgs had to bail them out as well and then the worse owners ever came in, downhill all the way since. There was no way back to highfield road as they had allready sold it and were paying £1.2m in rent on a 24,000 seat stadium.
 
Rob S

Rob S

Well-Known Member
Another thing...the Football League.

Despite the 'Real Fans, Real Football' flannel, everyone has to realise or remember exactly what they are: an organisation for club owners. Why on earth would they make decisions for the fans without covering their own backs first?

Bear in mind that they all have to deal with the abuse and criticism that gets dished out most of the time and even the most loved ones (i.e. currently successful and not pissing fans off in other ways á la Vincent Tan) will remember the abuse.

Link that with the perennial issues they will have had as businessmen (and it is nearly always men) dealing with local authorities, sketchy finances, the behemoth of the Premier League and so forth and you'll understand why demanding fans who – in their opinion – are generally totally clueless about the finer points of running a football club, get the shitty end of the stick.

Again, not supporting this state of affairs or the FL but trying to get beyond the echo chamber and towards a solution.
 
spider_ricoh

spider_ricoh

New Member
Rob S said:
Another thing...the Football League.

Despite the 'Real Fans, Real Football' flannel, everyone has to realise or remember exactly what they are: an organisation for club owners. Why on earth would they make decisions for the fans without covering their own backs first?

Bear in mind that they all have to deal with the abuse and criticism that gets dished out most of the time and even the most loved ones (i.e. currently successful and not pissing fans off in other ways á la Vincent Tan) will remember the abuse.

Link that with the perennial issues they will have had as businessmen (and it is nearly always men) dealing with local authorities, sketchy finances, the behemoth of the Premier League and so forth and you'll understand why demanding fans who – in their opinion – are generally totally clueless about the finer points of running a football club, get the shitty end of the stick.

Again, not supporting this state of affairs or the FL but trying to get beyond the echo chamber and towards a solution.
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Add to that the fact that they are scared to death of getting "battered in court" by SISU
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Rob S said:
Another thing...the Football League.

Despite the 'Real Fans, Real Football' flannel, everyone has to realise or remember exactly what they are: an organisation for club owners. Why on earth would they make decisions for the fans without covering their own backs first?

Bear in mind that they all have to deal with the abuse and criticism that gets dished out most of the time and even the most loved ones (i.e. currently successful and not pissing fans off in other ways á la Vincent Tan) will remember the abuse.

Link that with the perennial issues they will have had as businessmen (and it is nearly always men) dealing with local authorities, sketchy finances, the behemoth of the Premier League and so forth and you'll understand why demanding fans who – in their opinion – are generally totally clueless about the finer points of running a football club, get the shitty end of the stick.

Again, not supporting this state of affairs or the FL but trying to get beyond the echo chamber and towards a solution.
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Are you suggesting we should report them to Advertising Standards?
 
letsallsingtogether

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
You seem very proud in telling us that you have been to the FL with your 2 scraps of paper with the words land scribbled on them.?

Funny how when other people try to broker deals they are hounded?

Yet you are aware of where this so called land is but do not tell fellow City Fans?


Strange.


Rob S said:
Why does this make you glad for me? I'm genuinely puzzled by that.
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K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
The reason why ACL have to cover their own costs is because they have sufficient funds from themselves/ccc to cover it. So says the judge.
 
H

Houdi

Well-Known Member
Rob S said:
I wrote a breakdown of all the possible venues we could play at when this whole leaving the Ricoh mess blew up and dismissed Sixfields & the Pirelli Stadium (Burton Albion) out of hand because they were both on the edge of the allowed zone. I assumed that the club would be back in Cov because there would be no chance of getting an alternative venue (and I didn't even consider Nunny which apparently was rejected by the FL due to the flooding issues).

I was wrong. These people have form when it comes to either doing the unexpected or being underestimated by fans. Part of the problem is that there has been such an anti-Sisu echo chamber – especially here at SBT – that people just jump to the conclusion that they will lie, cheat, steal and torture puppies without taking the time to do some decent analysis or at least hold off making blanket statements before they can make a proper judgment.

I'm not trying to defend Sisu in any way shape or form here, I'm just pointing out that it might be worth not saying 'it'll never happen', especially when you look back over the last 20 years of CCFC's inglorious history.

EDIT: I'm not pushing the new stadium line, I'm just being the voice of doom.
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Well apart from the ,'steal and torture puppies', the majority view has proved to be pretty prescient don't you think. Unless of course you believe that the High Court Judge was an ACL puppet. I've yet to see any decent analysis as you call it,that can make any credible economic case for a new stadium. Although the floor is all yours if you wish to try and make a realistic economic beneficial case. Bearing in mind that even SISU must be acutely aware of an almost total cynicism from fans, what have they done in 15/16 months to quell all those cynics ,re the new stadium.
 
Rob S

Rob S

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
So almost 2 months in they cant work it out. Who's leading this sub committee? PA?

As a fan I will never forget the Idea of the club i support playing its first home game of the season at home not "home" and i find it quite suprising that another fan does.
Click to expand...
Don't take my bit about the FL's process as gospel, it's just a best guess based on how organisations can/could work.

Believe me, nobody will be happier than me if we get to play back at the Ricoh, especially in time for next season. I'd also want us to go through the season undefeated but I'm not sure I'm going to hang my hat on that one either.

I'm generally a very optimistic person and will always look for a way round a problem no matter what but this one has to run it's course unless fans come together and put a lot of pressure on all sides of this mess.

I'd be interested to know if anyone has got anything out of their local councillors now that the JR has passed. Do any of them want to do a deal? Are there enough to put some pressure on the leadership?
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
As it stands now there is no appeal going on so no legals.

Fucking talk and do a deal.

(Awaits TF to come out and say they are going to court of appeal)
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Houdi said:
Well apart from the ,'steal and torture puppies', the majority view has proved to be pretty prescient don't you think. Unless of course you believe that the High Court Judge was an ACL puppet. I've yet to see any decent analysis as you call it,that can make any credible economic case for a new stadium. Although the floor is all yours if you wish to try and make a realistic economic beneficial case. Bearing in mind that even SISU must be acutely aware of an almost total cynicism from fans, what have they done in 15/16 months to quell all those cynics ,re the new stadium.
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Picked the curtains.
 
hill83

hill83

Well-Known Member
letsallsingtogether said:
You seem very proud in telling us that you have been to the FL with your 2 scraps of paper with the words land scribbled on them.?

Funny how when other people try to broker deals they are hounded?

Yet you are aware of where this so called land is but do not tell fellow City Fans?


Strange.
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I'm on my phone and at work so bare with me.
Im struggling to see where he said any of that.
 
Rob S

Rob S

Well-Known Member
letsallsingtogether said:
You seem very proud in telling us that you have been to the FL with your 2 scraps of paper with the words land scribbled on them.?
Click to expand...

Huh? Who do you think I am? The closest I've got to the FL is the first KCIC protest down there.

Yet you are aware of where this so called land is but do not tell fellow City Fans?
Strange.
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Based on what has been said publicly, the club are trying to get a deal sorted on two potential sites. This isn't a secret.
 
spider_ricoh

spider_ricoh

New Member
Kingokings204 said:
As it stands now there is no appeal going on so no legals.

Fucking talk and do a deal.

(Awaits TF to come out and say they are going to court of appeal)
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He said that already "I have no doubt this will be looked at by 3 very senior judges" ... that is the court of appeal.
 
L

limoncello

Guest
letsallsingtogether said:
You seem very proud in telling us that you have been to the FL with your 2 scraps of paper with the words land scribbled on them.?

Funny how when other people try to broker deals they are hounded?

Yet you are aware of where this so called land is but do not tell fellow City Fans?


Strange.
Click to expand...

You really should consider attending some adult literacy classes. Read what he wrote again before you start your cry-cry nonsense.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Rob S said:
Don't take my bit about the FL's process as gospel, it's just a best guess based on how organisations can/could work.

Believe me, nobody will be happier than me if we get to play back at the Ricoh, especially in time for next season. I'd also want us to go through the season undefeated but I'm not sure I'm going to hang my hat on that one either.

I'm generally a very optimistic person and will always look for a way round a problem no matter what but this one has to run it's course unless fans come together and put a lot of pressure on all sides of this mess.

I'd be interested to know if anyone has got anything out of their local councillors now that the JR has passed. Do any of them want to do a deal? Are there enough to put some pressure on the leadership?
Click to expand...

I'm quite happy to put pressure on all sides in this mess but in the right order.

1) We all come together to put pressure on the FL to make the decision they're are putting of sooner rather than latter.

Once they've done this

2) If ACl are still playing hard ball we all come together to put pressure on ACL/CCC and Higgs if required to drop the tough guy act and open the door for negotiations.

Once they've done this

3) We all come together to put pressure on SISU to stay true to there word and join ACL at the table and get the deal done.

Or is that too simple?
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
bigfatronssba said:
Interesting that ACL have to meet their own costs.

Makes it even less likely they will drop the condition of stopping legal proceedings before talks imo.
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The reason I think they have to meet their own costs is because as highlighted by the judge that although their barrister had his say he fundamentally didn't add to the defence or change any of the conclusions.

I do not think the costs however would have been that great as most of the case was done the CCC legal team and barristers

Will the costs having to be paid affect the possibility of talks no I don't think so. Only thing that affects that are the two preconditions which I do not think ACL will drop
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
Rob S said:
Don't take my bit about the FL's process as gospel, it's just a best guess based on how organisations can/could work.

Believe me, nobody will be happier than me if we get to play back at the Ricoh, especially in time for next season. I'd also want us to go through the season undefeated but I'm not sure I'm going to hang my hat on that one either.

I'm generally a very optimistic person and will always look for a way round a problem no matter what but this one has to run it's course unless fans come together and put a lot of pressure on all sides of this mess.

I'd be interested to know if anyone has got anything out of their local councillors now that the JR has passed. Do any of them want to do a deal? Are there enough to put some pressure on the leadership?
Click to expand...

they all had a meeting about ten days back to unanimously vote to contend the appeal.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
spider_ricoh said:
He said that already "I have no doubt this will be looked at by 3 very senior judges" ... that is the court of appeal.
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But the judge has said when denying his appeal that sisu can ask the court of appeal but he is certain they will dismiss it also. They won't ever be an appeal just asking for one.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
The reason I think they have to meet their own costs is because as highlighted by the judge that although their barrister had his say he fundamentally didn't add to the defence or change any of the conclusions.

I do not think the costs however would have been that great as most of the case was done the CCC legal team and barristers

Will the costs having to be paid affect the possibility of talks no I don't think so. Only thing that affects that are the two preconditions which I do not think ACL will drop
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Think they should be thankful for the Higgs case bearing their own costs where the result greatly benefited the outcome of this one .
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
Rob S said:
Not that hard at the moment. Meet with FL and show them details of two potential sites, the impact assessments and that they are trying to negotiate a deal for one of them. Bear in mind that the FL have had lots of experience with the likes of Rotherham (approx. 610 days from leaving Millmoor to purchasing land for new stadium) and Brighton (years) so I doubt there will be too much pressure from the FL before next spring.

I'm not wishing the club into a new stadium BTW but I am slightly concerned by the number of people dismissing the idea of a new venue out of hand, especially as Sisu do have form when it comes to this kind of thing.
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I never dismissed it utterly, I've always though there was an outside possibility that was exactly what SISU were doing. However I've always thought it was a damn fool idea and doomed to lose then even more money.

As far as I'm concerned I'll never go to a new stadium & I think a lot of people will hold the same attitude.

I don't know what other people think but I think that divisive move like that could make Coventry a 2 club town & someone will put a bit of money into a club in tier 9/10 and there will be in a decade another team in Coventry in the Conference.
 
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