Appeal Decision? (22 Viewers)
- Thread starter skybluetony176
- Start date
Grendel
Well-Known Member
In my experience definitely not.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Its not good practice to pay management fees if you are making a loss as all it does is leave that money paid as debt in the company you are running.
If you were self employed or in a partnership its not allowed.
Como
Well-Known Member
I would like to see CCFC playing well in a higher league, preferably the Premiership. Not sure the Premiership would happen in my life time, we have sunk too low.
I am not that bothered about the Ricoh, I have no emotional attachment to it, I did for Highfield Road, but that has gone never to return.
I can not see the logic or where the money will come from for a new ground, makes not a lot of sense with the Ricoh being there and available.
Owners come and go, they only interest me to the extent they help or impede the Club.
I can not see any Club progress with the current ownership, whether they sell in 5 or 10 years.
I realise that any change of ownership could be worse, but at the moment a risk worth taking.
Some think SISU getting hold of the Ricoh would help this process, as it is fairly clear they have no interest in buying it or the lease or whatever at the going rate these seems a false route.
I favour the German method for Club ownership, I can only hope that SISU get fed up with wasting their time and Investors money and move on.
I am not that bothered about the Ricoh, I have no emotional attachment to it, I did for Highfield Road, but that has gone never to return.
I can not see the logic or where the money will come from for a new ground, makes not a lot of sense with the Ricoh being there and available.
Owners come and go, they only interest me to the extent they help or impede the Club.
I can not see any Club progress with the current ownership, whether they sell in 5 or 10 years.
I realise that any change of ownership could be worse, but at the moment a risk worth taking.
Some think SISU getting hold of the Ricoh would help this process, as it is fairly clear they have no interest in buying it or the lease or whatever at the going rate these seems a false route.
I favour the German method for Club ownership, I can only hope that SISU get fed up with wasting their time and Investors money and move on.
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
and losing 80% of your customers ?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
In your experience is it usual to take them fee's if you are failing the company you are managing. For example, if there's no profit because of your own actions to pay the fee's do they still take them anyway?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Definitely true - it made no difference.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It's not a very clever idea though is it?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I think the head office thought they were. Some are legitimate contributions to services provided by head office, normally taken monthly and varied in size and how they were split depending on the company.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I've seen something similar in companies I've worked for in the past. I also remember that if a branch failed as badly as our club has heads would roll.
The only new thing we learned was that Tim Fisher is in France. I suppose they can claim that as a CWR exclusive.:facepalm: The 'news' that they aren't buying Brandon, they are still looking at potential sites
:laugh:, and they may consider a return to the Ricoh in the meantime, is something fans have heard a thousand times already.
Astute
Well-Known Member
If any part of the company I worked for failed like that it would be closed. All parts are expected to make 20% profit from turnover. We all get a bonus. It is usually a 4 figure sum. If it is less than this you know your section is in trouble. We share in the profits. We take nothing if we make nothing. All we would get would be our wages for our time and nothing else.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
I as I have said for quite a while now am interested in the facts of our sorry state and how we got here. I normally put links or references to the information that I refer to if I can for transparency and if I do have an entrenched position it is that of wanting to find out the truth. You seem to have the view that Mr Justice Hickinbottom was wrong in his JR judgement
To me that suggests you think the judge was wrong, personally I was happy to accept the judgement in both the court cases (Higgs and JR) whichever way they went because a person with access to the facts as presented and a legal qualification or two had made the decision. The Judge in the Higgs case threw out both the claim for cash from the Higgs and the conspiracy counterclaim Sisu made against the Higgs. The judge (Mr Justice Leggatt) said that
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/sisu-v-higgs-court-battle-6916957
and there was no conspiracy but that the Higgs were not entitled to any money
and was minded to make each side pay their own costs. (http://issuu.com/covtel/docs/2014-04-03_-_trial_transcript__day_ page 159 about line 13 onwards). As I said at the time it seemed like a fair decision.
If Mr Justice Hickinbottom had come out at the JR and said that the council were in the wrong and ACL had to repay the council, then I would have accepted that because the judge has seen more of the evidence than I have and is better qualified than me to make the judgement.
As I said before I have no love for Coventry Council as I don't live in Coventry. ACL is a private limited company and if it fails because of their actions alone (and not those of others attempting to distress them financially) then tough luck. The same goes for the Higgs and their shareholding in ACL, and Joy/Sisu/Arvo with our Club (although obviously I'd rather our club didn't go out of business).
If you want to dispute the information that is available to us then go ahead and provide a link or reference to the source of your proof. I'm sure we'd all love to see this and who is actually telling porkies to us, if the evidence is that good why didn't you supply it for the judge(s) to see? Just saying I was told in confidence or any derivative of isn't proof of anything, anymore than my claiming we're about to sign Messi for a pack of scampi fries and he'll be working pro bono. For the avoidance of any doubt (given the thread earlier that caused so much excitement) I have no knowledge of any plans for Messi to join us.
Personally I would have liked to have spent the only football match I could attend last season watching the club I have supported for just shy of forty years in our home city. Instead I was at the Ricoh watching a team made up of former City players (legends) and the odd famous face whilst the team played their first 'home' game in Northampton. Now whilst it was nice to watch Huckerby, Whelan etc. again it wasn't the same
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Ah at last some common sense, very good well thought out post 'Como' and agree with most of it.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
James Smith
Well-Known Member
So you went into the Judicial Review with a predetermined outcome that you wanted to see, rather than an open mind?
The judge has vastly more legal experience than me, (I suspect but correct me if I'm wrong) you and Tim Fisher etc. which is why I was happy to accept his decision. What made/makes you think he's wrong in his judgement?
I as I have said for quite a while now am interested in the facts of our sorry state and how we got here. I normally put links or references to the information that I refer to if I can for transparency and if I do have an entrenched position it is that of wanting to find out the truth. You seem to have the view that Mr Justice Hickinbottom was wrong in his JR judgement To me that suggests you think the judge was wrong, personally I was happy to accept the judgement in both the court cases (Higgs and JR) whichever way they went because a person with access to the facts as presented and a legal qualification or two had made the decision. The Judge in the Higgs case threw out both the claim for cash from the Higgs and the conspiracy counterclaim Sisu made against the Higgs. The judge (Mr Justice Leggatt) said that and there was no conspiracy but that the Higgs were not entitled to any money and was minded to make each side pay their own coats. As I said at the time it seemed like a fair decision.
If Mr Justice Hickinbottom had come out at the JR and said that the council were in the wrong and ACL had to repay the council, then I would have accepted that because the judge has seen more of the evidence than I have and is better qualified than me to make the judgement.
As I said before I have no love for Coventry Council as I don't live in Coventry. ACL is a private limited company and if it fails because of their actions alone (and not those of others attempting to distress them financially) then tough luck. The same goes for the Higgs and their shareholding in ACL, and Joy/Sisu/Arvo with our Club (although obviously I'd rather our club didn't go out of business).
If you want to dispute the information that is available to us then go ahead and provide a link or reference to the source of your proof. I'm sure we'd all love to see this and who is actually telling porkies to us, if the evidence is that good why didn't you supply it for the judge(s) to see? Just saying I was told in confidence or any derivative of isn't proof of anything, anymore than my claiming we're about to sign Messi for a pack of scampi fries and he'll be working pro bono. For the avoidance of any doubt (given the thread earlier that caused so much excitement) I have no knowledge of any plans for Messi to join us.
Personally I would have liked to have spent the only football match I could attend last season watching the club I have supported for just shy of forty years in our home city. Instead I was at the Ricoh watching a team made up of former City players (legends) and the odd famous face whilst the team played their first 'home' game in Northampton. Now whilst it was nice to watch Huckerby, Whelan etc. again it wasn't the same
I'm sorry you feel like that and I'm not taking sides but just looking for more balance.
SISU are not the worst owners we've had but are certainly not the best but I still scratch my head trying to remember a good one?
Nobody wants to be in Northampton (Manager, Players, Press or Supporters), particularly the next generation (our youngsters) or our older loyal fans who've been following the the Club for more years than they care to remember (either because of their health or age or even logistics). However we are where we are for a very good reason, to be quite honest I'm totally sick to death with the politics but I started when I was very young supporting 'The Bantams' and continued to embrace change when the Sky Blue revolution came along, no regrets just full support.
What really depresses me is the total lack of understanding that other parties involved in this debacle are equally (if not more at fault than the owners).
Renewed my season tickets on the first day (passion & commitment) but totally understand why you've adopted your stance.
I only missed one home game due to family commitments but also managed six away (more than double my usual total), can't say I'm looking forward to the 'commute' to Northampton but along with my sons will attend as many games as I possibly can, starting with Cardiff in the COC!
All I'd say is watch this space, who knows what will happen in the future, certainly not me but I have a feeling things may be happening ..... fingers crossed.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
At least it was more inciteful. It seems he just supports the team and that transcends the politics for him.
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
That made me chuckle, Grendel, RFC is nearly always inciteful !! I think you meant insightful = and I agree with you - it illustrated the rationale for RFC's standpoint on most things CCFC - even if a lot of us disagree with the blinkered viewpoints.
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
No they can't.............sorry martcov, thought I was on the argument thread :facepalm:
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I thought he was an ACL plant? That is what you said isn't it?
play_in_skyblue_stripes
Well-Known Member
SISU not the worst owners ever? You cannot be serious!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lowest level football in my lifetime, huge debt allegedly, pathetic crowds and completely alienated their customers/supporters.
We also have to consider the morals of their "commercial tactics" and allegedly making statements that are not certain to be 100% accurate.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Someone who knew him personally confirmed him to be a fan didn't they?
play_in_skyblue_stripes
Well-Known Member
I withdraw my post.
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Take a long hard look at Manchester United my friend and you think we have problems, having a laugh?
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Lol for real? Comparing us to man utd?
Dare I ask what's wrong with man utd? Two 30million signings this year and just signed a 750m deal with Adidas for 10 years. Yeah tough times.
Just reading the club will never sell the naming rights to old trafford and will keep it's history and I also read the supporters trust won a judicial review against the clubs owners to make old trafford a listed building.
A win for the fans again just like ccc it a win for the fans in my opinion. The correct decsion is always made in the end.
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Knew him? Is RFC posting from beyond the grave?
not even zombies think Manchester utd have worse problems than us.