Starting XI for Bradford (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter LJC_CCFC
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LJC_CCFC
Member
I think we need a centre mid
I would agree, Thomas is poor and we need someone to do the dirty work and break up play to complement Fleck's creativity. For me Thomas doesn't offer anything other than playing the easy ball left, right and backwards (But never forward). Tbh anyone other than Thomas would be great, David Fox is on trial with Rochdale and I'd love him to come here.
Samo
Well-Known Member
I think we need a centre mid
Yep... Oh for a Dennis Wise!
Nick
Administrator
How has Thomas been in all the games you have seen?
Johnnythespider
Well-Known Member
So is Thomas this seasons whipping boy then?
Nick
Administrator
By whipping boy do you mean weak link?
FRY-CCFC
Well-Known Member
If by that you mean, we all slate him and then set up #conorthomasday when we try and sell him then yes, yes he is.
Johnnythespider
Well-Known Member
No, I mean saying things like " anyone but Thomas " before a ball has been kicked in anger.
FRY-CCFC
Well-Known Member
But last year he played nearly every game and didn't stand out once. He's a vanilla player. Does nothing wrong but nothing right. Pointless
Nick
Administrator
Where was that said? People might be judging from the tail end of last season also?
Johnnythespider
Well-Known Member
In at least 2 posts in this thread, new season, clean slate !
I think we have a few weak links,, the front two are not Wilson and Clarke, the CM position in Fleck and Thomas as a pairing have only looked good in certain games and Willis is a better CB than RB... Few injuries the young kids will be playing more than a few games this season, for me and just a opinion we don't have enough depth, experience or quality...
Johnnythespider
Well-Known Member
Surely doing nothing wrong is doing something right.
FRY-CCFC
Well-Known Member
Probably should rephrase that. He doesn't do anything. He makes 5 yard passes to either side if him like a crab. He's Sammy Clingan without the free kick ability.
sw88
Chief Commentator!
I wondered the same
ha!His better game was the Watford one (I think). He always looks better when alongside Fleck.
Must admit, I'm not much of a fan. I think there are better players out there, but whether they're available for us is a different matter.
He's better than Daniels though, that's got to be said
He was trying to shoot a bit more today, which was good to see, but I feel he's too weak on the ball sometimes. He likes to dive it when defending, but needs to be a bit more aware of who's around him when he has the ball rather than thinking of how he is going to retrieve the ball on em he loses if (as he regularly does).
I hope he improves and Pressley's faith in him pays off, but I won't hold my breath.
Not sure if that long answer has answered or avoided your question. Seems a bit like a politicians answer in parts
Johnnythespider
Well-Known Member
If Pressley picks him he must want a crab in his team. Each to there own but I will give it a few games before I slate him. There's a lot to be said for not giving the ball away.
LJC_CCFC
Member
Needs to show a hell of a lot more, like actually do something, literally ANYTHING
I would put money on it being this:
Allsopp
Clarke - Webster - Johnson - Pugh
O'Brien - Fleck - Thomas - Swanson
Miller - Tudgay
There isn't really anyone else pushing for a first team spot, maybe Willis or Seaborne, put apart from that I fear our first XI is fairly strong and picks itself but there are slim pickings outside of it.
Allsopp
Clarke - Webster - Johnson - Pugh
O'Brien - Fleck - Thomas - Swanson
Miller - Tudgay
There isn't really anyone else pushing for a first team spot, maybe Willis or Seaborne, put apart from that I fear our first XI is fairly strong and picks itself but there are slim pickings outside of it.
I thought Thomas was great in the first half of last season, him and Fleck compliment each other nicely. Fleck is the creative one, spraying the passes, and Thomas does the grunt work. Several times last year (Walsall away particularly springs to mind) he actually led the pressing late in games when everyone else's legs had gone. As stu says, he's only 20, I think it would be a massive (and I mean massive) mistake to write him off. He's probably got 5-6 (at least) years of development left in him as well.
Fleck and Thomas both suffered last year from there not being an adequate replacement, so they got burnt out and performance levels dropped. It's vital that we get a reliable back-up in for the midfield position.
Fleck and Thomas both suffered last year from there not being an adequate replacement, so they got burnt out and performance levels dropped. It's vital that we get a reliable back-up in for the midfield position.
LJC_CCFC
Member
Thomas is like a lot of modern footballers coming through the English system, he's a great athlete, looks at ease on the ball when in unchallenged possession and can get up and down the pitch for 90 minutes. I agree that at 20 he still has time to develop as a footballer, but for me he hasn't showed anything to suggest that he will progress above the level he is at now.
He's a 'defensive' midfielder, and yet he struggles to impose himself on opposition midfielders, can't really tackle and rarely breaks up the play. We had a poor defensive record last season and with him as the defensive one of the two midfielders this isn't surprising. How many times did teams run through our midfield, leaving Webster and co horribly exposed. For me he always looks scared when going in for 50/50 balls, and is far too lightweight to do the donkey work to supplement Fleck's creativity.
As for his attacking qualities, they're non-existent. We scored bucket loads last season and surprise surprise Thomas didn't even get one goal. I'd again link this to his weak mentality, (like being scared of battling in the midfield) when he has space to go forward he lacks the confidence to attack, play an incisive pass or shoot (I remember against Sheffield United away the season before last, when 2-1 up towards the end of the game he was played through with the whole goal to aim at and sent a feeble shot straight at the keeper).
All the lad does (atm) is pass the ball sideways and backwards (and not over long distances). When we are winning/dominating games his ability to pass the ball calmly over short distances can be mildly effective, but when teams compete against us (which most do) he goes missing.
Perhaps he needs to be taken out of the firing line to regroup and develop. Personally the only time I've ever thought 'oh this boy looks like a bit of a player' was when he played in an actual defensive role (either in a 4-1-2-1-2 or a 4-2-3-1) where he can act like a Leon Britton type of player and get away with it.
Bottom line is we need a midfielder who can either
A) Play (example: David Fox, currently on trial with Rochdale/ Brian Stock)
B) Get stuck in (example: Nathan Doyle/Anton Robinson)
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I must say, I disagree a lot of what you say here. For me he isn't a defensive midfielder, he's more of a box to box player, and although he didn't get in the oppositions box much last season, he was the one pressing high and often further forward than fleck who played deepest.
You blame him for the defensive frailties in midfield yet, fail to acknowledge that his 3 midfielder partners are all as weak as dishwasher defensively, and actually there were a large number of goals that were the result of fleck losing the ball in the midfield.
You also bemoan him not scoring one goal, yet his 'creative' central midfielder partner fleck managed just 1 all season, so you can hardly let him off the hook.
You also say he needs to be taken out of the firing line, yet the season's not even started, does he not deserve at 20 years old to have the slate wiped clean?
As sutty said, he played well with Fleck in the first half of last season.
Samo
Well-Known Member
Dead on. Let the lad have a go, he's 20 years old.
LJC_CCFC
Member
Box to box? Hmmm, only because he's awful in both. Box to box midfielders have to be all action, which sadly he is not. Very much a vanilla player.
Tbf we were as a unit poor defensively, but the midfield must protect the back four a lot more this season.
Fleck plays more incisive balls, shoots more and goes forward more than Thomas. Yes he needs to improve his goal scoring too, however his creativity is 'evident' with his 6 assists compared to Thomas's 1.
The fact Elvis is looking for another cm makes me think Thomas is for the chop (in a straight choice between him and Fleck). Saying that I hope he surprises me and kicks on this season.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Ben Turner. Cyrus Christie. Jordan Clarke. Callum Wilson. All slated in their first season or two in the first team.
When will City fans learn that kids make mistakes and this is part of their learning process.
You want fully finished players, don't look to the academy. The first couple of seasons is their finishing school. Too many are far too harsh on our kids IMO. Thomas has pushed himself into the first team well ahead of his peers (e.g. Daniels/Willis) so his mistakes at that age have been far more public.
When will City fans learn that kids make mistakes and this is part of their learning process.
You want fully finished players, don't look to the academy. The first couple of seasons is their finishing school. Too many are far too harsh on our kids IMO. Thomas has pushed himself into the first team well ahead of his peers (e.g. Daniels/Willis) so his mistakes at that age have been far more public.
LJC_CCFC
Member
Compare it with the rest of league one and we'll be fine
LJC_CCFC
Member
Ben Turner was prone to the odd blunder early on, bit with that came commanding defensive displays.
Cyrus Christie obviously needs to work on both his defensive positioning and final ball, but again he was always positive in his performances and has been one of the best attacking full backs in the league for 2 years.
Jordan Clarke is just woeful.
Callum Wilson finally got fully fit and showed his qualities.
Conor Thomas does nothing.
If he showed me something I'd be more inclined to give him time, but like Billy Daniels I believe we've just got a bang average footballer on our hands
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
completely agree.
Dont think relegation will be a problem ,and we wont threaten the play offs as we wont score enough, to rectify defensive mistakes
we will be fine.