Grendel
Well-Known Member
What's the price then? How do you know the business isn't fucked and this deal isn't just discharging the loan?
Latest SBT statement (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Otis
- Start date
What's the price then? How do you know the business isn't fucked and this deal isn't just discharging the loan?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
True, just business. As long as Wasps fans don't mind, etc etc
A few on here seemed pleased. As long as CCFC don't get it who cares who does.
A few on here seemed pleased. As long as CCFC don't get it who cares who does.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Grendel, not sure how you've drawn those conclusions from what I have posted on this subject.
Depends which sport. I wouldn't give a blanket yes or no to that. For example I was against the Wimbledon move to MK and against any attempt to turn us into a franchise. On the other hand I think the NHL expansion into Southern America is a failure and would favour moving a team like the Panthers to somewhere like Hamilton. Not everything in life is black or white.
I don't know enough (or anything!) about rugby but a quick look at the top division shows London Irish playing in Reading and London Welsh playing in Oxford. Wasps themselves have moved previously and currently play some of their homes games away from their current home so I don't think it's a straightforward situation. As I have said on more than one occasion I would support any protest or other action by Wasps fans but I believe it is down to them to initiate any action, it's not for us to be telling them what they should or shouldn't support. If Wasps fans are in favour of this move or any other who are we to tell them they are wrong?
Again I have previously stated I will happily support any action by Cov RFC or their fans but so far we seem to be far more worked up about it then they, or Wasps, fans are. The SBT statement appears to indicate that Cov RFC have no issue with Wasps playing at the Ricoh other than a concern that they may miss out on becoming part of their development system.
Depends which sport. I wouldn't give a blanket yes or no to that. For example I was against the Wimbledon move to MK and against any attempt to turn us into a franchise. On the other hand I think the NHL expansion into Southern America is a failure and would favour moving a team like the Panthers to somewhere like Hamilton. Not everything in life is black or white.
I don't know enough (or anything!) about rugby but a quick look at the top division shows London Irish playing in Reading and London Welsh playing in Oxford. Wasps themselves have moved previously and currently play some of their homes games away from their current home so I don't think it's a straightforward situation. As I have said on more than one occasion I would support any protest or other action by Wasps fans but I believe it is down to them to initiate any action, it's not for us to be telling them what they should or shouldn't support. If Wasps fans are in favour of this move or any other who are we to tell them they are wrong?
Again I have previously stated I will happily support any action by Cov RFC or their fans but so far we seem to be far more worked up about it then they, or Wasps, fans are. The SBT statement appears to indicate that Cov RFC have no issue with Wasps playing at the Ricoh other than a concern that they may miss out on becoming part of their development system.
Nick
Administrator
And Coventry Rugby Club are crap and don't play in Europe so they don't matter.
Of course we are, because we have the most to lose, by a mile. This is our home, the stadium built for us, and it is being sold off under our noses without a thought for the long term implications.
Astute
Well-Known Member
You are talking as though SISU have tried their best to take over ACL and the lease. You would have thought that they would take it seriously now, but it don't seem so.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I keep coming back to the same point, how can we protest about the ground not being sold to us when we're not trying to buy it and saying we are going to move out in a couple of years?
Personally I think the Ricoh is a great ground and would love for us to own it and be able to put more of our mark on it. If we ever were to get any success and fill the place on a regular basis it would be an amazing atmosphere. I would hate for us to move, especially if it means moving out of the city but how are we ever going to own it if we don't put in a bid?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Anyway
With all the bickering everyone seems to have missed the most important thing. SISU don't (publicly at least) sound like they're going to fight this head on.
Rob, we could really do with some insight about what our owners are or aren't going to do about gaining control of our club and their assets future. Have you had any feedback from them at all other than what the Trust has announced?
We know that as a group of fans we will do our bit, we've proved that over the last year or so and it's clear that we don't want this to happen as a collective. The whole council lover sisu lover line is getting more than tedious. This is not about our past it's about our future so we need to be looking forward.
It seems pretty clear that another party can see the value in the Ricoh. We need to pressure all the parties involved in the Ricoh to not complete this deal and we need to pressure our owners to do a deal instead. There is now a template on how the deal can be done we need our owners to see a way of using it.
And another thing. It's only a community asset if it represents the community. The only way that's going to happen is if CCFC are calling it home.
With all the bickering everyone seems to have missed the most important thing. SISU don't (publicly at least) sound like they're going to fight this head on.
Rob, we could really do with some insight about what our owners are or aren't going to do about gaining control of our club and their assets future. Have you had any feedback from them at all other than what the Trust has announced?
We know that as a group of fans we will do our bit, we've proved that over the last year or so and it's clear that we don't want this to happen as a collective. The whole council lover sisu lover line is getting more than tedious. This is not about our past it's about our future so we need to be looking forward.
It seems pretty clear that another party can see the value in the Ricoh. We need to pressure all the parties involved in the Ricoh to not complete this deal and we need to pressure our owners to do a deal instead. There is now a template on how the deal can be done we need our owners to see a way of using it.
And another thing. It's only a community asset if it represents the community. The only way that's going to happen is if CCFC are calling it home.
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I'm still not convinced this isn't the purpose of the whole exercise. Wasps would be crazy, looking at their attendances, to move to a stadium the size of the Ricoh but saying they have a deal in place would put pressure on Wycombe council. Similarly if CCC can say we have a buyer that puts pressure on SISU to make a serious offer.
ACL have previously dealt with Wasps and you can assume, as they are talking about coming back for more European games, have a good working relationship so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that something has been deliberately leaked that would benefit both sides.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Broadly, I suspect we're not far apart.
I'm saddened however, that the bickering isn't about how to say the general principle is wrong, rather than about whether it is wrong.
Whatever your view on who was to blame for Sixfields, absolutely nobody (bar the odd mentalist) thought it right a club should leave where it forged its identity and go elsewhere, because of a financial dispute. We wasted hours, days, months arguing the toss over who was to blame, how to protest yadda yadda yadda, but ultimately that one basic underlying statement held firm.
Now I hope I'm wrong, but there seem many not having a problem with a non Coventry team being parachuted into Coventry. This is not sport to me. My Dad grew up with tales of playing against Duckham et al at school, that's *my* history, and something no team away from Coventry can give me. It seems even the Rugby club might soften its stance to this basic principle about what, actually, *is* a Coventry team. It's not like we're talking about a team like Broadstreet moving in either is it, it';s not a team on the edge of the boundaries, it's an utterly alien team.
And then we have the well-worn argument that a charity magnanimously help us out (possible btw... but let's not overlook who was on our board at the time we were fucking everything up, and let's not give a total free pass just yet). As they're a charity professing to do right by Coventry they appear determined to stamp on the head of heritage, tradition, identity... all for the great God of commerce. As they're not supposed to be motivated by money this makes me sad they show otherwise.
So all in all what do we have, but the city where I was born threatening to wipe out some of its past yet again - always the curse of the city, no long term vision. Once again the financial takes precedence over the social and you're right, there'll be bog all protests and you're right, it's a shame more never cared when we were at Northampton.
And we couldn't even have a month of peace before people surveyed our defiled city and tried to knock another hole in civic pride - we couldn't even have a month. Why should we have to fight yet again? I'm sure you would be at any demonstration and I'm sure you would be one of few. It's almost like they want to wear us down, put us off sport for life and forget all about the city that's ours.
I'm saddened however, that the bickering isn't about how to say the general principle is wrong, rather than about whether it is wrong.
Whatever your view on who was to blame for Sixfields, absolutely nobody (bar the odd mentalist) thought it right a club should leave where it forged its identity and go elsewhere, because of a financial dispute. We wasted hours, days, months arguing the toss over who was to blame, how to protest yadda yadda yadda, but ultimately that one basic underlying statement held firm.
Now I hope I'm wrong, but there seem many not having a problem with a non Coventry team being parachuted into Coventry. This is not sport to me. My Dad grew up with tales of playing against Duckham et al at school, that's *my* history, and something no team away from Coventry can give me. It seems even the Rugby club might soften its stance to this basic principle about what, actually, *is* a Coventry team. It's not like we're talking about a team like Broadstreet moving in either is it, it';s not a team on the edge of the boundaries, it's an utterly alien team.
And then we have the well-worn argument that a charity magnanimously help us out (possible btw... but let's not overlook who was on our board at the time we were fucking everything up, and let's not give a total free pass just yet). As they're a charity professing to do right by Coventry they appear determined to stamp on the head of heritage, tradition, identity... all for the great God of commerce. As they're not supposed to be motivated by money this makes me sad they show otherwise.
So all in all what do we have, but the city where I was born threatening to wipe out some of its past yet again - always the curse of the city, no long term vision. Once again the financial takes precedence over the social and you're right, there'll be bog all protests and you're right, it's a shame more never cared when we were at Northampton.
And we couldn't even have a month of peace before people surveyed our defiled city and tried to knock another hole in civic pride - we couldn't even have a month. Why should we have to fight yet again? I'm sure you would be at any demonstration and I'm sure you would be one of few. It's almost like they want to wear us down, put us off sport for life and forget all about the city that's ours.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Eakin poured scorn on the Cov RFC statement by the tuust and referred to an interview with their Chairman in which he expressed grave concern. A spokesman for Wasps supporters was very despondent. I suggest you are not trying that hard to find objections. The fact you accept neither party would is absurd
Otis
Well-Known Member
I don't know is the answer. We can all assume it will be bad for City and Cov rugby, but we don't know for certain. My mind keeps coming back to Coventry City Council and what they represent. I honestly cannot see them voting for a deal that pushes Coventry City out into the wilderness, seriously hurts the city's rugby club and has Wasps coming in with yellow seats plastered all over the Ricoh. I just cannot see it. It would be a total madness and surely would go against the very thing the local council stands for.
I think for CCC to vote yes on this there would have to be caveats in place that would protect Coventry City FC and hopefully Cov rugby too. I just cannot see them signing off on a deal that would hurt two local clubs and boost a franchise outsider club from close to 100 miles away.
They'd be chased out fo the council chambers with pitchforks.
I just think people are jumping to conclusions a bit. What we need to do now is to lobby the council to make sure they do the best thing for the city of Coventry and the people of Coventry.
Bottom line for me is, I truly believe that if this deal proves to be bad for CCFC and CRFC then the council will veto the proposal to accept the deal.
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dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Yes strictly true that is irrelevant to the point they have always been open to offers.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
I don't Mr Richardson it seems does.
So do SISU and then they tried and it seems failed to creat their own lower price. ( as proven in court, I am sure you remember)
stupot07
Well-Known Member
What kind of caveats would they put in place?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Otis
Well-Known Member
What kind of caveats would they put in place?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
i don't know, Stu. I am not an expert in takeovers, or indeed, caveats.
They could surely though make sure any new owner offered a 100 year lease to the football club, so that Coventry City couldn't just be kicked out in the future couldn't they?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Once again, I will support any action they take. If you can find details of any action either Wasps or Cov RFC are proposing then I would suggest posting it on here so we can all support it, I haven't been able to find anything so far. Maybe the trust can approach their equivalents at both organisations and find out where things are at.
If we, as fans of CCFC, are going to start our own protest we need to be on solid ground so that if and when questions are asked of us we have the answers and don't look like total idiots (insert joke here about members of SBT, GCBTR & KCIC being interviewed here
).That's why I think any action around the impact on Wasps fans or Cov RFC should be initiated by them. We need to come at it from another angle, overall that could be beneficial, the more angles against this the better as it makes it harder to dismiss. The problem I'm having is finding an angle that we can use that would stand up to any scrutiny. The obvious one would not be selling 'our' stadium to a rugby club from London but that is undermined when the clubs owners are saying we're moving and have made no attempt to buy the ground themselves. Even saying we want to stay long term as tenants would give us something to work with.
The sad reality is we've had over 7 years to try and gain a stake in the Ricoh and none of our owners in that period have done not a thing about it. We are tenants and unreliable ones at that.
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
I know this issue has been on the back burner for a long time, over a year in fact. If it happens I believe sisu's grip on our club will be over, sooner the better for me. This Richardson character is one mean astute business man believe me, does he want to own a football club, perhaps and is his consortium wealthy, yes, very, apparently, includes atleast one a rab I've been told. Sorry I know there are always dodgpots and I am as wary as the next guy on who owns and controls my football team but after this sisu crowd and it's bunch of fly by night cretins. I will take a chance with this guy if he decides to buy into my team. We need that change of direction if we are ever to get to where the likes of Leicester and Burnley are, just look at the tables above us and tell me I'm wrong.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No and why would they, oh and Mr Richardson is a man of his word as when he bought the club he promised they would remain in West London.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
What we need is an owner prepared to move the sporting clubs in their empire for financial reasons... we haven't had enough of them yet.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Once again, I will support any action they take. If you can find details of any action either Wasps or Cov RFC are proposing then I would suggest posting it on here so we can all support it, I haven't been able to find anything so far. Maybe the trust can approach their equivalents at both organisations and find out where things are at.
If we, as fans of CCFC, are going to start our own protest we need to be on solid ground so that if and when questions are asked of us we have the answers and don't look like total idiots (insert joke here about members of SBT, GCBTR & KCIC being interviewed here
That's why I think any action around the impact on Wasps fans or Cov RFC should be initiated by them. We need to come at it from another angle, overall that could be beneficial, the more angles against this the better as it makes it harder to dismiss. The problem I'm having is finding an angle that we can use that would stand up to any scrutiny. The obvious one would not be selling 'our' stadium to a rugby club from London but that is undermined when the clubs owners are saying we're moving and have made no attempt to buy the ground themselves. Even saying we want to stay long term as tenants would give us something to work with.
The sad reality is we've had over 7 years to try and gain a stake in the Ricoh and none of our owners in that period have done not a thing about it. We are tenants and unreliable ones at that.
Well yep, Sisu saying they want to stay here would be a start.
If they come out now and say they want to stay at the Ricoh that gives us something to fight for and to lobby CCC and ACL over. If Sisu come out and say 'We want to stay at the Ricoh' then I think an awful lot of fans would swiftly turn on ACL if they just carried on and negotiated a deal with Wasps without consideration for the football club.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The problem would be any caveat would see us remaining as tenants so unless its something like CCFC must have first say on all dates, pay no rent and get all matchday revenues we will most likely end up, at best, in a similar situation we have been since the Ricoh opened. Unless this is some scheme to flip the stadium to SISU without CCC & Higgs having to sell to them directly it would appear to leave us forever renting.
While a rental model could be made to work you would have to think you're more likely to be able to get a beneficial agreement out of a charity and the local council than someone who's purchasing the business to make money out of it. Not that we've got a great deal so far but you get my point.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Don't think a promise is worth as much as a signed agreement to be honest. You can put caveats and clauses into contracts that ensure any new owner meets the criteria of the agreement and does not breach it.
Promises are just words.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Your wrong. He doesn't give a shit about heritage location or customer loyalty. Stop pretending you know anything when you clearly have not got a fucking clue -- and as for change of direction -- you are probably so stupid you do not even know why that is funny - try asking Wasps fans and they will tell you.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The council will put no caveats - why would they? They care nothing for sport in Coventry.
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
I also think this has knocked sisu for six, what can they do ? or where can they go ? Nothing and nowhere, they haven't a pot to piss in and have only been kept going by transfer fees and lucky cup draws. Well this year there will be no stars to sell at xmas and unless they get lucky again re. the cup nothing extra there also and that's why they have lost their tongues imo.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Because they are in existence to serve the people of Coventry, that's why.
I cannot believe for a single second that our own council would screw over both the rugby club and football club of this city to allow a franchise club from miles away come in and destroy the two most historic and biggest sporting clubs of Coventry.
It would be a total, absolute madness. They won't do it. They wouldn't dare do it. The consequence of such an action would have pretty much all the council menbers out of office in no time at all.
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
Say what you like this guy and his consortium will own our football club and soon. I think if you look back I told you about our Ricoh return days before the announcement and I'm telling you this Richardson and his men will have our football club
TheSkyBlueSquirrel
New Member
None of this effects us, we're moving to our new ground, this is what they've always said, why would anyone lie?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Comical Ali
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
CCFC's priority never seems to be securing a long term deal.