Bob Ainsworth's view (14 Viewers)

[Rusty Trombone]

I was refereeing to the CT article from Aug. 2013 where ACL were reported to have been sounding out WASPS etc. as far back as 2011......but PWKH said he had no knowledge of such activity.

Article is here. http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/red-button-ricoh-arena-chairman-5431948

I do not have any quote regarding him stating share will go to Wasps.....I've only read that on here!!!

That's a PWKH quote in respect of looking for sponsors of the stadium if Ricoh pulled out, not the sale of ACL.

 

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[Rusty Trombone]

Dont surmise Nick. Rusty Trombone wants the whole quote and he wants it now!

Edit - Saved there is now a link to PWKH making the dastardly comment.

Except it shows that I was right to ask (wasn't demanding though).

 

[Moff]

Except it shows that I was right to ask (wasn't demanding though).

I know. I was only joking...sometimes its the only thing that keeps me sane in my support for the CCFC basket case.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Approached in June or July this year weren't they by Wasps? Sure I read that in a CET article.

I think this was based around Lucas saying the first time she met with Wasps was in July as that was when it was decided they were serious bidders. I would imagine the talks were going on well before then.

 

[Neutral Fan]

SISU's possible route out of this is:

Approach the FL to say they can't continue in Coventry due to FFP rules and their lack of stadium, made worse by no available suitable land nearby.

Their only option : franchise CCFC to Brum or London and build their own development in a tax deductible business development regeneration scheme.

The FL, being strong and masterful, will agree to the franchise immediately. And will be consoled that CCFC supporters can watch RFC Franchise instead.

 

[James Smith]

Evidence? Wasps have come out and stated that they respect that the 'charity will do what's best for the charity'.

Well the veto exists and the council I think still have their share (not seen anything to say that the sale has actually gone through) which includes the veto so what we need for a quick purchase is there to be no bad blood between the council and Sisu.

If Wasps are happy with 50% and Sisu having the other 50% then great - but do read the OSB58 post on the costs associated with Ltd. it isn't as easy or as cheap as we might hope.

And here is that post from OSB58.

getting it down to brass tacks for a potential bidder ......

to get hold of the option .......

- the option can not be transferred from CCFC Ltd without the Charitys permission so cant be bought separately
- you have to buy CCFC Ltd - you may get it for £1 but the option it seems may have value so it might cost more, the liquidator legally must maximise the value - it costs money
- however to buy CCFC ltd you have to do a deal to settle out the CCFC Ltd creditors (creditors ACL who are owned by AEHC/Wasps could be in control of) or accept all the creditors as they stand which no one would do - it costs money
- you then have to provide the money to purchase the AEHC shares (one guess is £2.77m) - it costs money

At the end of which you can make an offer that could well be rejected. At that point the option dies. Wasps then obtain 100% and there is no stake to be had in ACL

So at the end of which you end up with a company you have paid good money for, settled out the creditors, that now owes you money but has absolutely no means of repaying you and no assets :thinking about:

it costs money ...........you lose money

 

[Rusty Trombone]

SISU's possible route out of this is:

Approach the FL to say they can't continue in Coventry due to FFP rules and their lack of stadium, made worse by no available suitable land nearby.

Their only option : franchise CCFC to Brum or London and build their own development in a tax deductible business development regeneration scheme.

The FL, being strong and masterful, will agree to the franchise immediately. And will be consoled that CCFC supporters can watch RFC Franchise instead.

Or, they could carry on playing at the Ricoh after agreeing a long rent deal, thus ensuring higher crowds than they would in Birmingham or London, and save themselves requiring any land and building money. Just an idea though.

 

[wingy]

Approached in June or July this year weren't they by Wasps? Sure I read that in a CET article.

That was the same time I had that phone Call where they'd been told by TF that the deal would be announced In a couple of weeks and AEG would run the Stadium .

To me that suggests they were In the loop about this coming off in the near future.

So much has happened It's hard to keep track has anyone said anywhere that SISU hadn't /havn't already offered prior to this decision.

 

[lordsummerisle]

If Higgs were serious about offering their share to the club, then could do so without using the CCFC Ltd Option smokescreen.

It's one of those offers, that actually aren't offers at all.

 

[davebart]

I am sure Appleton can do whatever he likes. He managed to sell a company with no apparent assets. If he wants 50% he could get it. Sorry Otium could. If the option was legally defunct someone would have said it by now.

I would also point out that SISU could by now own the entire ground. CCC and Higgs wanted them to have it. But somehow relationships soured to such an extent that they would rather sell to absolutely anyone else under any circumstances. We will probably never know why that was.

 

[James Smith]

If Higgs were serious about offering their share to the club, then could do so without using the CCFC Ltd Option smokescreen.

It's one of those offers, that actually aren't offers at all.

Can they before having offered it to Ltd. though, do we know that as a fact? Also it does underline how much Sisu must have annoyed them and how many dismissive statements about the Ricoh we've made that they've even considered selling to Wasps.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Can they before having offered it to Ltd. though, do we know that as a fact? Also it does underline how much Sisu must have annoyed them and how many dismissive statements about the Ricoh we've made that they've even considered selling to Wasps.

The fact they talk of CCFC Ltd rather than CCFC says it all. It's a fait accompli.

 

[Nick]

Can they before having offered it to Ltd. though, do we know that as a fact? Also it does underline how much Sisu must have annoyed them and how many dismissive statements about the Ricoh we've made that they've even considered selling to Wasps.

Also underlines that they have probably been bullshitting all along about their love for the club etc etc. All in it for themselves.

 

[Jack Griffin]

I was refereeing to the CT article from Aug. 2013 where ACL were reported to have been sounding out WASPS etc. as far back as 2011......but PWKH said he had no knowledge of such activity.

Article is here. http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/red-button-ricoh-arena-chairman-5431948

I do not have any quote regarding him stating share will go to Wasps.....I've only read that on here!!!

I saw that, but the I thought that that strategy was vetoed at that time & dropped.
Soon after the chief exec at the time went, I guess he wasn't happy at his idea being blocked.

The recent deal has been said to be initiated by a more recent approach from Wasps, at least that is what has been stated in the media.

You may think that there has been contact all along & the story in the media is bull, but seriously we don't have any way of knowing what is & isn't true.

 

[Jack Griffin]

SISU's possible route out of this is:

Approach the FL to say they can't continue in Coventry due to FFP rules and their lack of stadium, made worse by no available suitable land nearby.

Their only option : franchise CCFC to Brum or London and build their own development in a tax deductible business development regeneration scheme.

The FL, being strong and masterful, will agree to the franchise immediately. And will be consoled that CCFC supporters can watch RFC Franchise instead.

It is a possibility, but I think even the FL will not accept London, TBH I wouldn't be upset if it gets rid of SISU, we will rebuild from the ground up.

 

[torchomatic]

Yep, CCC/ACL were negotiating with Wasps at the same time as the "peace and reconciliation" talks in the Cathedral.

Approached in June or July this year weren't they by Wasps? Sure I read that in a CET article.

 

[Nick]

It is a possibility, but I think even the FL will not accept London, TBH I wouldn't be upset if it gets rid of SISU, we will rebuild from the ground up.

It still doesn't solve the revenue / ground issue does it, with or without SISU

 

[olderskyblue]

Also underlines that they have probably been bullshitting all along about their love for the club etc etc. All in it for themselves.

The charity are "all in it for themselves" ?

 

[Nick]

The charity are "all in it for themselves" ?

I think every party in this mess are in it for themselves, although the charity not so much.

 

[James Smith]

The fact they talk of CCFC Ltd rather than CCFC says it all. It's a fait accompli.

That's maybe just the legalese isn't it though, as Ltd is no longer legally anything to do with the club? If the option exists within the legal entity called CCFC Ltd then surely that's who has first dibs. The calling everything CCFC was (at least part of) the reason for the confusion over who held the Golden Share.

 

[James Smith]

Also underlines that they have probably been bullshitting all along about their love for the club etc etc. All in it for themselves.

Possibly although it wouldn't be the first thing I'd have thought of about them given their history. It probably doesn't help that we've been in Northampton until recently and saying that we don't want the Ricoh and plan A is the new stadium.

 

[Jack Griffin]

It still doesn't solve the revenue / ground issue does it, with or without SISU

So what do you propose as a solution?

 

[stupot07]

Borrowed from GMK.

compare "business is business" line to;;;;

https://bobainsworthmp.files.wordpress.co m/2013/07/football-league.pdf


"a move away from Cov would diminish the identity of the Football Club & impair its capacity to bring together the local community and foster a collective spirit"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[Nick]

So what do you propose as a solution?

Whoever took us on would have to build their own or buy Wasps out. Would many do that?

 

[Jack Griffin]

Whoever took us on would have to build their own or buy Wasps out. Would many do that?

 

[Ian1779]

Yep, CCC/ACL were negotiating with Wasps at the same time as the "peace and reconciliation" talks in the Cathedral.

They started talking to Wasps before the rent strike even began......

 

[dongonzalos]

I think every party in this mess are in it for themselves, although the charity not so much.

If the council are in it for themselves. What do they do with any money they make?

 

[rightumpty]

Anyone else think that is saying a lot without actually saying much at all?

Bob the blob has spoken

 

[oldfiver]

And here is that post from OSB58.

I am lost here

If Otium say to Appleton we will offer say £2.77m for the Higgs share then 85%% or so of that goes back to Otium as the major creditor
They then own 50% of ACL so effectively get 50% of the monies paid for the sale of the shares

Appleton in this case has a duty to get the best deal for the creditors - primarily OTIUM? So if he sells to Otium the figure only matters to the small percentage due to other creditors?

 

[dongonzalos]

Someone said wasps have had a power of veto transferred to them. I think also someone else suggested that because SISU transferred all the assets out that possibly ACL is the main creditor?

 

[rupert_bear]

Think Appleton will have to satisfy HMRC too, not sure how much is owed to them and also not sure if that has to be paid before Higgs shares can sold to the now liquidated ccfc ltd.

 

[lordsummerisle]

I am lost here

If Otium say to Appleton we will offer say £2.77m for the Higgs share then 85%% or so of that goes back to Otium as the major creditor
They then own 50% of ACL so effectively get 50% of the monies paid for the sale of the shares

Appleton in this case has a duty to get the best deal for the creditors - primarily OTIUM? So if he sells to Otium the figure only matters to the small percentage due to other creditors?

Think that the major creditor would be ACL with the remaining lease at £1.3million per year, think it was around £60million ACL were claiming.

The reason why it is an offer that really isn't to buy the Higgs share.

 

[rupert_bear]

Think that the major creditor would be ACL with the remaining lease at £1.3million per year, think it was around £60million ACL were claiming.

The reason why it is an offer that really isn't to buy the Higgs share.

So in a few words sisu have been well and truly shafted !!

 

[lordsummerisle]

So in a few words sisu have been well and truly shafted !!

Pretty much it, but wish Higgs and CCC could be honest about it.

 

[Ian1779]

Pretty much it, but wish Higgs and CCC could be honest about it.

Helped by the CET pedalling a story that they know damn well could never be fulfilled. More spin to beat the club with.