I don't think anyone likes Franchises in Sport, but it is no good substituting the evil Council with the evil franchise in the blame game - as seems to be the trend with some people. SISU remain in the driving seat and the Buck stops with them. They are driving us towards a brick wall at high speed...
How popular will wasps be? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter dongonzalos
- Start date
stupot07
Well-Known Member
And in selling their shares to wasps the council and Higgs (when it's done and dusted) and gone and built another brick wall ten times closer.
You can absolve them of blame all you want if it makes you feel better. We've been shat on from a great height from all parties.
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Well now wasps are likely to have 100% of the Ricoh and we continue to be on a rent no/little access to revenue deal then we're likely to be in league one for a considerable amount of time. We will become a league one-championship yo yo club at best.
I think our gates could suffer, but it's easier to blame sisu than wasps. Interesting you don't mention the impact off cov rugby.
So much for our community based sport clubs. I hope wasps stay here is a disaster, and no ccfc fan attends. I certainly won't be making an effort to make them feel welcome.
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I think we could end up as a Yo-Yo Club between League 1 and 2 if that suits SISU ( not saying it dös at the moment). I don't know what the deal with Cov Rugby will be, but they have been in the wilderness for years - without Wasps. Taking another angle, if Wasps do really well, they may not need as much Rent from CCFC.
And in selling their shares to wasps the council and Higgs (when it's done and dusted) and gone and built another brick wall ten times closer.
You can absolve them of blame all you want if it makes you feel better. We've been shat on from a great height from all parties.
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This should Never have been allowed to happen. by SISU. SISU are sticking to the JR and the stadium. Joy and Tim have confirmed that.
So they have made the decision to leave. Joy doesn't negotiate and Tim doesn't Bluff. I hope that SISU's Plans don't happen and that we end up with a sustainable deal with Wasps in the future. Our only chance as the New stadium would be the end.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I doubt it, they're owned by a Maltese hedge fund they'll want a return on their investment. Besides there's talk off scrapping the wage cap, if that happened they will need every penny they can get to compete. As bob says "business is business".....unless it's moving ccfc out of Coventry, then it's ripping a club from its community and fan base and unacceptable
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dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
And in selling their shares to wasps the council and Higgs (when it's done and dusted) and gone and built another brick wall ten times closer.
You can absolve them of blame all you want if it makes you feel better. We've been shat on from a great height from all parties.
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Nah the council and charity have done what anyone would do in the circumstances.
The football club only has itself to blame here.
It's like when criminals or alcoholics blame everyone else in society.
We had plenty of opportunities to avoid this situation we kept forcing this outcome.
The football club itself is solely to blame for this one.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Yes don, in your head yes.
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dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Yes don, in your head yes.
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The fact that you and the odd other desperately try and switch the debate to the morals of franchising sport. (Franchising is wrong everyone accepts)
Highlights that your attempts to not accept that SISU's decisions and tactics have solely left us where we are today, have failed dismally
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Evo1883
Well-Known Member
I think putting 100% of the blame on sisu ...is fucking ridiculous
Maybe quicker than you think. It will be an embarrasment if their gates overtake Citys. We're already down to around 7000, it won't take much for Wasps to get over 7000 ( just did at their latest game in Wycombe - despite being "ripped out of the community" ).
They are the owners. They have said they are leaving. I find it hard to see how they are not largely to blame. The JR, Northampton, "I don't negotiate", "I don't bluff" etc. hardly let SISU off the hook in this affair. Wasps have proved that being nice to the evil council, offering them a Business plan and lots of money gets you a lot further than just coming the proverbial.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
If they did the deal that wasps proved how to do either at the beginning of their tenure or at any other point during their ownership.
Or had a decent business relationship with their business partners throughout their tenure.
Wasps would not be here.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Ideally they should have bought the stadium , they didnt , but you said that sisu are 100% to blame , it wasnt sisu who sold it was it to the new franchise team , the council appeared over recent years to not want to sell off the stadium so quickly and neither did ACL , everybody here thought and still does think the arena is a cash cow ... Explains the acl net profit of 1 million pounds last year (hardly worldbeating is it)
there is no doubt sisu have a huge portion of the blame here , the council and acl have also shown throughout the period that they too dont rally care all that much about ccfc .
after all they were the ones who charged 1.3 million pounds a season for a team on its knees to shell out and play at a stadium , which we really had no other option but to sign .
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
That's the type of character who watches rugby. It's all "well done old chap" and cunts.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
On a different thread I have explained all the reason why as a council you have a duty consider an offer like that from wasps.
Then when you consider it alongside the hard fast threat that there will be no anchor tenant at the Ricoh in 4 years time. You will have to vote to accept it.
The charity always said they wanted to sell. So no blame there, their priority is to get as much money back as they can.
Our owners like most on here believed no other sporting team would want it.
Unfortunately once one came a long that would potentially bring in jobs, increase revenue spent in the city and brings about any development. The gamble by our owners was a bad one.
SISU are the owners and like it or not they take the lion's share of the blame. Yes, the council are cumbersome, have some officials who are probably not helpful and are not the people who should be involved in running a stadium. The never wanted to. It was a CCFC idea. But.... SISU have had years to suss this out and didn't. They had one useless director after another and Joy joined too late and was too aggressive. Now we are up shit creek without a paddle - and some are looking for new evil people to blame. Sorry, but if SP keeps losing he will be blamed for it on here and eventually most will be calling for his head as he is responsible. SISU have been on a loser for years, yet some still try and deflect the blame. We had throughout the JR debacle, constant talk of "wait and see", "smoking guns", "heads will roll at the council", "Insider information" etc. etc.
At the end SISU got hammered and the head of spin - Labovitch -, had a knee operation and left
. Now the council seem to be getting out of the running of the Ricoh, which can only be good for the Ricoh, and have moved on. SISU however, are sticking to the usual crap of a JR and a new stadium. Still people try and reduce their share of the blame. Bizarre really, a bit like a religion, no substance, just blind faith - no, it can't be all SISU's fault, there must be something else.
Moff
Well-Known Member
For what its worth on my first post on this thread, I have the following observations.
1) The only person who is predicting 'great' attendances is Dongo
2) The person who seems to have least knowledge on current Rugby attendances is Dongo.
3) People who actually attend Rugby matches, including watching some of the bigger clubs, are not making such wild predictions and are keeping it more low key, which the attendances will be.
4) No one else on the thread (unless i have missed it) have claimed they have met lots of potential excited new fans like Dongo has.
5) I haven't met anyone anywhere, who is remotely interested in watching wasps, in fact nearly 90% of the people I have spoken to about it want them to fail, with most wanting them to leave.
6) Why would anyone switch from a top side like the Saints or the Tigers to a mediocre one like Wasps, to watch them in a sparsely filled stadium.
Sorry Dongo but this just comes accross as like some PR exercise by you on behalf of Wasps.
1) The only person who is predicting 'great' attendances is Dongo
2) The person who seems to have least knowledge on current Rugby attendances is Dongo.
3) People who actually attend Rugby matches, including watching some of the bigger clubs, are not making such wild predictions and are keeping it more low key, which the attendances will be.
4) No one else on the thread (unless i have missed it) have claimed they have met lots of potential excited new fans like Dongo has.
5) I haven't met anyone anywhere, who is remotely interested in watching wasps, in fact nearly 90% of the people I have spoken to about it want them to fail, with most wanting them to leave.
6) Why would anyone switch from a top side like the Saints or the Tigers to a mediocre one like Wasps, to watch them in a sparsely filled stadium.
Sorry Dongo but this just comes accross as like some PR exercise by you on behalf of Wasps.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Yes. Dare say that will the case. You also have to equate for human nature and a victorious cup or league championship for Wasps will swiftly have some people being turned round.
duffer
Well-Known Member
I think, like the Council, there are a few people kidding themselves here. You can go and look at the stats for yourselves...
http://www.premiershiprugby.com/matchcentre/fixtures/fixtures.php?includeref=9229&season=2013-2014
The only team that get anything like 'decent' attendances by football standards are Leicester Tigers. And then you've got Saints, Bath, and Gloucester - who are closer to 10,000 generally.
And these are well-established teams in places that can genuinely be called rugby towns. We've got a franchise team, moving into a town that's primarily football, and who have already p*ssed off a reasonable number of both the local rugby and football fans.
As for having Brum (say 2m people) on the doorstep, Wasps had London (say 10m) on theirs at Wycombe, and could still only get 6,000 or so.
My prediction is that Wasps might get a lift at the first few games through novelty and freebies - and they'll get big (c20,000) attendances for Saints & Tigers games, probably, but the majority of games will be a few thousand. They will be lucky if they get as many as they got at Wycombe, imho, and I don't see that changing much even over a longer period.
It's not much fun at the Ricoh when it's three-quarters empty, as we know.
Where they might make money is on the corporate side. Rugby traditionally does quite well on that front, and the Ricoh is well set up for it. It's hardly likely to bring a vast revenue into the city as a whole though.
http://www.premiershiprugby.com/matchcentre/fixtures/fixtures.php?includeref=9229&season=2013-2014
The only team that get anything like 'decent' attendances by football standards are Leicester Tigers. And then you've got Saints, Bath, and Gloucester - who are closer to 10,000 generally.
And these are well-established teams in places that can genuinely be called rugby towns. We've got a franchise team, moving into a town that's primarily football, and who have already p*ssed off a reasonable number of both the local rugby and football fans.
As for having Brum (say 2m people) on the doorstep, Wasps had London (say 10m) on theirs at Wycombe, and could still only get 6,000 or so.
My prediction is that Wasps might get a lift at the first few games through novelty and freebies - and they'll get big (c20,000) attendances for Saints & Tigers games, probably, but the majority of games will be a few thousand. They will be lucky if they get as many as they got at Wycombe, imho, and I don't see that changing much even over a longer period.
It's not much fun at the Ricoh when it's three-quarters empty, as we know.
Where they might make money is on the corporate side. Rugby traditionally does quite well on that front, and the Ricoh is well set up for it. It's hardly likely to bring a vast revenue into the city as a whole though.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Yes if any of what you said above was true I agree it would.
Point 1
Please show me where I predict great attendances for wasps I have no idea what attendance they will get. I was shocked by the comments at work by a few people from Birmingham who are intending to go. First time I have really thought about it.
Point 2
I agree
Point 3
What wild predictions
Point 4
How many do quantify as 'lots'
That's what I am interested in as I was shocked by these people due to their geographical location. Until someone informed me the catchment area includes Birmingham.
Point 5
That's what I am I trying to find out. Does that include any rugby fans you have spoken to who are from this region but attend other top level clubs? That's people who have shocked me
Point 6
That's what's shocked me when they said it. It seems purely based on its easier for them to attend. They seem to have no qualms or loyalty about it
Moff thanks for your reply however maybe you should read what I actually posted.
I don't work for the council or wasps.
A handful of people have told me they are quite excited about attending the Ricoh. They will be going with friends and family. They don't/ didn't support wasps.
They are all from the Birmingham region.
It shocked and surprised me. Have I by chance met the only people who think like that and they happen to work at my place. Or is this symptomatic of what will happen with top level rugby fans throughout this catchment area?
duffer
Well-Known Member
That's not quite right FP, sorry. In plenty of places, including Coventry, rugby is still a working man's sport, largely supported by the same sort of people who go to football. In fact at Cov RFC it seems like every other person I bump into either used to, or still does go to watch CCFC.
The only difference is that the crowd is a bit older, and can generally handle its beer.
Compared to footy, it makes a change from having to put up with the (mercifully few) gobshite 'rock-hard' sixteen year-olds with a burberry cap, pissed on two pints. Just because there are a few of them I don't class all CCFC fans as knobs though. Fair enough?
Moff
Well-Known Member
shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
Rugby fans are totally different to football fans in terms of club loyalty. Whilst Sains & Tigers fans will have support from predominantly their local area, many people I know will go to watch the rugby without any affection for either of the teams playing just want to see high quality rugby.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Weird ain't it. Since this Wasps thing loads of Council leaning types have suddenly brilliant knowledge of rugby and have spoken to thousands of people who will be going.
shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't class myself as a council leading type but have spoken to brother in law, my son's boss, an Ospreys fan who said they would go but don't think they would be regulars but Torch carry on the crusade but WASPS has happened and we (CCFC not CCC) are in a creek with no paddle no matter much how you want to challenge the notion of WASPS getting the RICOH. Its happened
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
That's what I seem to be finding out
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I'm the same. If I want to read high-quality pro-council bullshit then I come on here and read your posts.
olderskyblue
Well-Known Member
Congratulations Torch, your transition to a "Grendel" is complete.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Apologies, I must know not to disagree with anything from you and yours. Won't happen again.
it is when you put everyone together in one place, something it seemed like they had learnt this year but blew it in response to a few short sighted complainants, maybe wasps will be smarter.
shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
WASPS won't need big crowds to fund their club, they will have a football club helping to fund them, a local prestige business Jaguar Land Rover, they pulled off a great commercial deal, something that was beyond our current owners, I am a ST holder but don't know the name of our sponsors, get used to small crowds at both the rugby and the football.
olderskyblue
Well-Known Member
It's never the agree/disagree bit torch, it's the abuse. I'm sure I remember a time when you didn't fall into that style of response...... You can be saved I think, and this may just be the first step on your road to recovery...
shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
Torch is angry, I'm angry also, but my anger is reserved mostly for SISU for not being able to do the deal that WASPS seem to have done, I'm angry at CCC also but WASPS are coming, we need to live with it and move on.