This has to be said.. (6 Viewers)

[RoboCCFC90]

Last night was nothing short than embarrassing, a 4-1 loss to Oldham was completely humiliating, my mood at the final whistle and on the bus home (sorry SW88 if I moaned the whole journey home!) was one of frustration however having thought about it all I still refuse to say that the Manager should be sacked for the issues we are currently having on the pitch, I don't think it will help matters, I do believe that the farcical 3-5-2 must go, we are becoming to predictable and teams are exposing the evident weakness in our defence.

That said I refuse to blame Sisu for where we are, we had (approx £2,500,000 budget for this season? Clarke Money, Arsenal Money and the Wilson Transfer fee, on top of anything else) to build a decent squad, we brought in Championship proven players in Johnson, O'Brien, Nouble, Jackson and Pugh, but it isn't coming together at this present time. Yet people are now more than willing to start the "Sisu Out" bandwagon again due to the results and form we are currently experiencing, considering we are a Club that must live within our means and spend only how FFP allows us too, how will demand for new owners change that?

What I think is needed is that we need to scrap the 3-5-2 formation, yes it may work in the U18's but it doesn't work for the first team. Fans must continue to support the team and get down to the Ricoh, everyone who is currently saying "I am losing faith" or "I am not going to go, so fed up with this garbage" there is no need for it, when the tough get going you stick and support the lads, if we desert the team, what confidence is that to the players, the manager or anyone at the Club? If fans continue to desert the Club and the unthinkable happens we will all blame the Club, but won't that be because we weren't there to support it, as fans we "support" the Club, we win together, we lose together, yes we are on a shocking run - this can't be denied in any stretch of the imagination - but there is no point in pointing the finger we must all get behind the Club together and provide the support to the Club that will help us climb from where we sit in the league..

I will see you all Saturday..


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[Evo1883]

I agree with all of it apart from the cant blame sisu bit , they do have some portion of blame to take here

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I agree with all of it apart from the cant blame sisu bit , they do have some portion of blame to take here

You can blame them for the move to Northampton, not purchasing the Ricoh or dragging us down to the Championship, but like it or not, we had a good budget this season and have brought in good players this cannot be denied, what else are the owners liable for other than that?


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[SkyBlue_Bear83]

So basically your solution is to have blind faith that it will turn around?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

You can blame them for the move to Northampton, not purchasing the Ricoh or dragging us down to the Championship, but like it or not, we had a good budget this season and have brought in good players this cannot be denied, what else are the owners liable for other than that?


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Yea Pressley blew that budget on crap

 

[RoboCCFC90]

So basically your solution is to have blind faith that it will turn around?

Sorry when you said blind faith I had music come to my head initially.

Fans must continue to support the team and the Club, we must continue to help spur the lads on, otherwise we accept the prospect of just letting the worse happen.

Only the 11 players on a Saturday and a Manager who picks them will change where we are, but if we can continue to show undivided, loyal and passionate support, surely it can help be a catalyst.


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[Covcraig@bury]

All I can say is after last night I wont be going again and wasting money on this Bilge. the whole team just couldn't give a shit . excluding Jim O`Brien who I thought gave his all.
This team/formation/system/management and owners just does not work for me . Enough is enough egg chasing Rugby is looking the better option sorry!!!

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

All I can say is after last night I wont be going again and wasting money on this Bilge. the whole team just couldn't give a shit . excluding Jim O`Brien whole I thought gave his all.
This team/formation/system/management and owners just does not work for me . Enough is enough egg chasing Rugby is looking the better option sorry!!!

I think its great you are going to support Coventry RFC instead.

 

[sw88]

Don't apologise Robbo. Isn't the first time I've had to listen to a lot of moaning on the way back from a City game nor the first for moans on the way (plus hearing people misread one of my posts almost instantaneously after I pressed 'post' and not knowing I was in ears distance was comical )

Regarding your post, I do believe the formation is the biggest issue. In fact, it's a massive issue, as it was under Thorn.

Too many similarities to his era I'm afraid, so if SP doesn't change things soon (through perseverance or stubbornness I'm not sure which) or turn things around, we do seriously have to question his position, and I'd like to think (as he seems an honest bloke) he would see this himself also and have to question his own position.

He seems keen to keep his back line of 3, and change everything else, but while you chop and change your defenders (sometimes enforced, others through choice) and you continue to see the same error after error from player after player, it shows there is a much bigger issue to just the personnel in the team. I in life in that the ever popular subject of the GK position. If your 10 outfield players have little or no faith in the man between the sticks, again that's a massive issue before you start looking at other areas of concern.

I agree that this isn't solely down to SISU, but there Is definitely area for improvement in a lot of places. They've received cash, and not spent it wisely IMO. Only this season has FFP been introduced. What was their excuse for buying cheap / poor / free players and not stumping up a but if cash? I do believe this season would have been an ideal season to go for promotion. No 'big team' came from the championship last year IMO and left the league open for all interested parties. Yet we find ourselves in relegation mire. An all too familiar feat for us unfortunately

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

Rob. love your enthusiasm but how the hell you do not blame SISU for
us being in the bottom five of league 1,
with no stadium ,
a completely shite team ,
employing a manager who everyone agrees has lost the plot,
losing 50 % of its fanbase through an appalling act of taking the team 35 miles away from its city in the hope of distressing its stadium management company ,
employing a CEO/ chairman who tells lies and more lies ,and is the most patronising prick to ever walk the earth , hence being hated by most of the fans
and finally treating each fan with utter contempt,
god only knows.

God I wish I was so forgiving

 

[Evo1883]

You can blame them for the move to Northampton, not purchasing the Ricoh or dragging us down to the Championship, but like it or not, we had a good budget this season and have brought in good players this cannot be denied, what else are the owners liable for other than that?

Oh i agree , notts county are 5th and have spent nothing on players , id imagine they have a smaller budget than city
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[RoboCCFC90]

Rob. love your enthusiasm but how the hell you do not blame SISU for
us being in the bottom five of league 1,
with no stadium ,
a completely shite team ,
employing a manager who everyone agrees has lost the plot,
losing 50 % of its fanbase through an appalling act of taking the team 35 miles away from its city in the hope of distressing its stadium management company ,
employing a CEO/ chairman who tells lies and more lies ,and is the most patronising prick to ever walk the earth , hence being hated by most of the fans
and finally treating each fan with utter contempt,
god only knows.

God I wish I was so forgiving

Your a Reverend it's the message from The Lord that counts


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[Evo1883]

Sorry rob , my post mingled with yours .
notts county are 5th and have soent nothing on players , all frees and loans , i cant imagine they would have a bigger budget than ours .
pressley is just underachieving i cant see why alot of supporters cant see that

 

[TrueSkyBlueLiam]

I've always said I will back the boys until the club is gone, or im gone. It doesn't matter who owns us or what league we are in, when you sign up to be a sky blue, you're a sky blue for life. Not just when we're winning or when we have a big game, for life! Ownership, managers, form, status, they're all temporary, loyalty is permanent

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Do we know for sure that we've had approx £3,000,000 budget for this season plus Clarke Money, Arsenal Money and the Wilson Transfer fee for the squad. Have to say, I find that hard to believe. If correct then it casts SP in much worse light in my eyes.

 

[ccfc_Tom]

Do we know for sure that we've had approx £3,000,000 budget for this season plus Clarke Money, Arsenal Money and the Wilson Transfer fee for the squad. Have to say, I find that hard to believe. If correct then it casts SP in much worse light in my eyes.

Plus Baker of the wage bill - apparently our highest earner at the club

 

[Jack Griffin]

Do we know for sure that we've had approx £3,000,000 budget for this season plus Clarke Money, Arsenal Money and the Wilson Transfer fee for the squad. Have to say, I find that hard to believe. If correct then it casts SP in much worse light in my eyes.

It is a number the poster made up. Waggott said it was £2.7M at a recent SBT meeting, I should imagine that includes paying off Baker.


PS Slight correction, £2.7M

Our playing budget is 2.7 million according to waggot , over 1 million more than i estimated , and over 1 million more than swindon town

PPS and some scepticism about the statement that 60% of turnover goes to that budget

If it is 2.7m then the starting turnover is 4.5m

Was told by TF that we got £3.5m for Wilson, we have also got compensation for Christie say £500k they are both included in the calculation. So that means that since 01/06/14 the total qualifying turnover from all other sources (match day tickets, match day packages, sponsorship, advertising, shop sales etc etc) less direct costs amounts to something like £500k ............... Really?????

Also there are a lot of the squad that do not actually need to be included in the SMCP because they are too young. So who has it been spent on ....... and have we got value for money???

Doesn't seem to add up to me

 

[RoboCCFC90]

It is a number the poster made up. Waggott said it was £2.5M at a recent SBT meeting, I should imagine that includes paying off Baker.

Ah I never saw that, therefore I apologise and will change my post accordingly.


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[The Lurker]

Do we know for sure that we've had approx £3,000,000 budget for this season plus Clarke Money, Arsenal Money and the Wilson Transfer fee for the squad. Have to say, I find that hard to believe. If correct then it casts SP in much worse light in my eyes.

Plus does the budget include agent fees etc.. What I will say on the matter. I didn't see many moaning on here when we signed Tudgay, Johnson, Jackson, o'brien, Swanson, Pugh, Hines and nouble. Surely the players are partly to blame too? I agree however the 3-5-2 needs to go before the damage is done

 

[Noggin]

You can blame them for the move to Northampton, not purchasing the Ricoh or dragging us down to the Championship, but like it or not, we had a good budget this season and have brought in good players this cannot be denied, what else are the owners liable for other than that?


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It absolutely can be denied, it's far from a fact that we have spent a decent amount on player wages and brought in good players this season. In fact everything other than Steve waggot saying (our budget is 2.7mill) points to the opposite. Sisu (and that includes waggot) are masters of the weasel words so 2.7mill budget (even if true) can mean many other things than we are spending 2.7 mill on player wages.

 

[Noggin]

It is a number the poster made up. Waggott said it was £2.7M at a recent SBT meeting, I should imagine that includes paying off Baker.

PS Slight correction, £2.7M

personally I imagine its the amount we are allowed to spend under ffp and not what we are spending (ie a completely worthless statistic)

 

[Jack Griffin]

personally I imagine its the amount we are allowed to spend under ffp and not what we are spending (ie a completely worthless statistic)

No I heard him say it is our paying budget this year, but I'm not sure exactly what that statement means.. ie it may not be the same as the SCMP figure..

 

[Noggin]

No I heard him say it is our paying budget this year, but I'm not sure exactly what that statement means.. ie it may not be the same as the SCMP figure..

yeah i realise what he said, but a budget to me is what you plan to spend, or what you can spend, not what you are spending, while I think its very misleading to give the amount they are allowed to spend under ffp as the playing budget I do think it's still a reasonably valid statement and so it could easily be the case.

 

[Noggin]

i wrote this about it on another thread

It seems alot of people feel Pressley is seriously under performing because we have a wage budget of 2.7 million (which comes from the recent forum?) if its true that we are currently spending this on players then while summer recruitment was very difficult I'd still agree that he is seriously underforming.

However, do people believe we are spending 2.7million on player wages and that we are in the top 8 spenders on wages? I don't not for a second.

When we hear that our wage budget is 2.7m, we all rightly assume that means that the amount we are playing all our first team squad players x 52 weeks = 2.7 million.

Does it mean that though?

2.7m /52weeks /24 players 2.15k per week per player which is alot when you consider that 24 includes James Madison, Ivor Lawton, Jack Finch, Ryan Haynes, hell we are surely not paying Burge anything like 2.1k a week either. Then there is 3 players from Bournemouth who I highly doubt we are paying 2.1k a week each for since they were part of the Wilson deal. taking all that into account means we are paying about an average of 3k a week for everyone else which would surely mean we are paying some of them well over that. I just don't believe they would have been making 4k or so a week deals in northampton.

is it more likely they are playing fast and loose with the truth again and a wage budget of 2.7 million means we are able to spend 2.7m under ffp rules rather than we have spent that?

Or could it mean we are spending 2.7million on wages this year but that includes paying out contracts of people we are getting no benefit from like Baker who if we truely were paying 8k a week for probably cost 4k a week to get rid of.

Or this year could be 2014 instead of this season.

I could easily be wrong though, there is no inside info here, just a healthy scepticism about the hidden meanings behind what we are told by people who can't lie straight in bed. Perhaps we are currently spending 2.7m on player wages and that would probably mean Pressley should be on very thin ice but I doubt it.

 

[blueflint]

i said three years ago i won't be back until sisu leave i still mean it.i didn't start n.o.p.m i wish i had and that more supporters did it

 

[ccfc1234]

Last night was nothing short than embarrassing, a 4-1 loss to Oldham was completely humiliating, my mood at the final whistle and on the bus home (sorry SW88 if I moaned the whole journey home!) was one of frustration however having thought about it all I still refuse to say that the Manager should be sacked for the issues we are currently having on the pitch, I don't think it will help matters, I do believe that the farcical 3-5-2 must go, we are becoming to predictable and teams are exposing the evident weakness in our defence.

That said I refuse to blame Sisu for where we are, we had (approx £2,500,000 budget for this season? Clarke Money, Arsenal Money and the Wilson Transfer fee, on top of anything else) to build a decent squad, we brought in Championship proven players in Johnson, O'Brien, Nouble, Jackson and Pugh, but it isn't coming together at this present time. Yet people are now more than willing to start the "Sisu Out" bandwagon again due to the results and form we are currently experiencing, considering we are a Club that must live within our means and spend only how FFP allows us too, how will demand for new owners change that?

What I think is needed is that we need to scrap the 3-5-2 formation, yes it may work in the U18's but it doesn't work for the first team. Fans must continue to support the team and get down to the Ricoh, everyone who is currently saying "I am losing faith" or "I am not going to go, so fed up with this garbage" there is no need for it, when the tough get going you stick and support the lads, if we desert the team, what confidence is that to the players, the manager or anyone at the Club? If fans continue to desert the Club and the unthinkable happens we will all blame the Club, but won't that be because we weren't there to support it, as fans we "support" the Club, we win together, we lose together, yes we are on a shocking run - this can't be denied in any stretch of the imagination - but there is no point in pointing the finger we must all get behind the Club together and provide the support to the Club that will help us climb from where we sit in the league..

I will see you all Saturday..


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Brilliant post and one of the most level headed and rational posts I have read for a while. The one thing we disagree on is SP. IF he refuses to get the best out of the squad by switching formation then he has to go for gross incompetence in his job as a manager. We are supposed to play to our strenghts in football and that does not mean Pugh a slow LB being played at wing back. That does not include scraping around for Midfielders you can play at CB to give us 3.
LVG at Man Utd has scrapped the 5-3-2 as he has seen it not working I suggest our manager does likewise or goes for being pig ignorant and stubborn.

 

[Nick]

i wrote this about it on another thread

It seems alot of people feel Pressley is seriously under performing because we have a wage budget of 2.7 million (which comes from the recent forum?) if its true that we are currently spending this on players then while summer recruitment was very difficult I'd still agree that he is seriously underforming.

However, do people believe we are spending 2.7million on player wages and that we are in the top 8 spenders on wages? I don't not for a second.

When we hear that our wage budget is 2.7m, we all rightly assume that means that the amount we are playing all our first team squad players x 52 weeks = 2.7 million.

Does it mean that though?

2.7m /52weeks /24 players 2.15k per week per player which is alot when you consider that 24 includes James Madison, Ivor Lawton, Jack Finch, Ryan Haynes, hell we are surely not paying Burge anything like 2.1k a week either. Then there is 3 players from Bournemouth who I highly doubt we are paying 2.1k a week each for since they were part of the Wilson deal. taking all that into account means we are paying about an average of 3k a week for everyone else which would surely mean we are paying some of them well over that. I just don't believe they would have been making 4k or so a week deals in northampton.

is it more likely they are playing fast and loose with the truth again and a wage budget of 2.7 million means we are able to spend 2.7m under ffp rules rather than we have spent that?

Or could it mean we are spending 2.7million on wages this year but that includes paying out contracts of people we are getting no benefit from like Baker who if we truely were paying 8k a week for probably cost 4k a week to get rid of.

Or this year could be 2014 instead of this season.

I could easily be wrong though, there is no inside info here, just a healthy scepticism about the hidden meanings behind what we are told by people who can't lie straight in bed. Perhaps we are currently spending 2.7m on player wages and that would probably mean Pressley should be on very thin ice but I doubt it.

It probably isn't 2.7 million being paid. Even if we are spending the same money as 70% of the teams in our league he should be skating on thin ice. I very much doubt we spend any less than Crewe for example.

There are people like Johnson, James O Brien, Swanson, Tudgay, Jackson who will be commanding a decent wage. A couple of players turned down offers from their own clubs so we must be offering something a bit better than other clubs.

The budget thing is irrelevant with some things though isn't it, even if our players are the lowest paid in the league you would still expect them to put up a fight wouldn't you?

 

[TheOldFive]

Rob. love your enthusiasm but how the hell you do not blame SISU for....

God I wish I was so forgiving

Two reasons why it's not worth throwing blame around at Sisu.

1) it's pointless. They don't care and it wastes your energy.
2) all the blame they deserve ( and yes, I mean ALL) is offset because it's their club, their investment, their money. This club was as good as dead and they saved it becoming a corpse. More fools them maybe, but they have earned the right to do as they please and certainly what they stupidly think is best. The Shit support from most "fans" in both turnout and attitude based on a bad run of form shows that they have zero right to complain or expect anything better. If there was a potential buyer out there surely they would realise there's an unsustainable level of support for the Club and unless you had Oligarch levels of cash to piss away why the fuck would you bother making an investment here for the undoubted ingratitude and self righteous shit you would have to put up with from most in the City.

 

[Astute]

Two reasons why it's not worth throwing blame around at Sisu.

1) it's pointless. They don't care and it wastes your energy.
2) all the blame they deserve ( and yes, I mean ALL) is offset because it's their club, their investment, their money. This club was as good as dead and they saved it becoming a corpse. More fools them maybe, but they have earned the right to do as they please and certainly what they stupidly think is best. The Shit support from most "fans" in both turnout and attitude based on a bad run of form shows that they have zero right to complain or expect anything better. If there was a potential buyer out there surely they would realise there's an unsustainable level of support for the Club and unless you had Oligarch levels of cash to piss away why the fuck would you bother making an investment here for the undoubted ingratitude and self righteous shit you would have to put up with from most in the City.

Two points.

They saved our club? In what way?

All the blame is offset as they have wasted millions? What utter bullshit. They have fucked up big time. And wasting millions don't make them innocent.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Two reasons why it's not worth throwing blame around at Sisu.

1) it's pointless. They don't care and it wastes your energy.
2) all the blame they deserve ( and yes, I mean ALL) is offset because it's their club, their investment, their money. This club was as good as dead and they saved it becoming a corpse. More fools them maybe, but they have earned the right to do as they please and certainly what they stupidly think is best. The Shit support from most "fans" in both turnout and attitude based on a bad run of form shows that they have zero right to complain or expect anything better. If there was a potential buyer out there surely they would realise there's an unsustainable level of support for the Club and unless you had Oligarch levels of cash to piss away why the fuck would you bother making an investment here for the undoubted ingratitude and self righteous shit you would have to put up with from most in the City.

So basically your saying this:

Sisu have the right to do what they want with the club because they've lent the club money.

The fans have no rights other than to go to games and to not complain.

Have you ever considered a career in customer service?

 

[bigfatronssba]

Two points.

They saved our club? In what way?

All the blame is offset as they have wasted millions? What utter bullshit. They have fucked up big time. And wasting millions don't make them innocent.

Apparently wasting loads of money is a good thing.

I suspect theoldfive would vote for a political party who invested an extra £5 billion in the NHS but then spent it all on the staff Christmas party.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Brilliant post and one of the most level headed and rational posts I have read for a while. The one thing we disagree on is SP. IF he refuses to get the best out of the squad by switching formation then he has to go for gross incompetence in his job as a manager. We are supposed to play to our strenghts in football and that does not mean Pugh a slow LB being played at wing back. That does not include scraping around for Midfielders you can play at CB to give us 3.
LVG at Man Utd has scrapped the 5-3-2 as he has seen it not working I suggest our manager does likewise or goes for being pig ignorant and stubborn.

I completely agree. Surely SP has to see that 3-5-2/5/3-2 is not working and act upon it. As I said before many teams can spot the weakness in our team currently and their exploiting it really well, I hope SP takes note of recent performances and changes the constant issue.

SP stated that it was due to the goals we conceded last season as to why he changed the formation in a defensive respect, but unfortunately we are no better off, therefore you have to look at the personnel, does Webster cut it? Does Willis cut it? Does Clarke cut it? What about Reda? Do they fit the formation that's being played?


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[dadgad]

Two reasons why it's not worth throwing blame around at Sisu.

1) it's pointless. They don't care and it wastes your energy.
2) all the blame they deserve ( and yes, I mean ALL) is offset because it's their club, their investment, their money. This club was as good as dead and they saved it becoming a corpse. More fools them maybe, but they have earned the right to do as they please and certainly what they stupidly think is best. The Shit support from most "fans" in both turnout and attitude based on a bad run of form shows that they have zero right to complain or expect anything better. If there was a potential buyer out there surely they would realise there's an unsustainable level of support for the Club and unless you had Oligarch levels of cash to piss away why the fuck would you bother making an investment here for the undoubted ingratitude and self righteous shit you would have to put up with from most in the City.

I agree with point ONE.
Point TWO, however, is nonsense but I won't spend any energy explaining why.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You can blame them for the move to Northampton, not purchasing the Ricoh or dragging us down to the Championship, but like it or not, we had a good budget this season and have brought in good players this cannot be denied, what else are the owners liable for other than that?


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The playing budget is dictated by turnover rather than how much SISU want to throw at it. They chose to spend their time on court fees and trying to bust ACL rather than negotiate for a shareholding that was clearly there for the taking.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I completely agree. Surely SP has to see that 3-5-2/5/3-2 is not working and act upon it. As I said before many teams can spot the weakness in our team currently and their exploiting it really well, I hope SP takes note of recent performances and changes the constant issue.

SP stated that it was due to the goals we conceded last season as to why he changed the formation in a defensive respect, but unfortunately we are no better off, therefore you have to look at the personnel, does Webster cut it? Does Willis cut it? Does Clarke cut it? What about Reda? Do they fit the formation that's being played?


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Looking at the goals conceded they don't have to try very hard to exploit weaknesses, considering that a simple hoof down the middle causes chaos and our defenders forget how to kick a ball straight. That comes from either a serious lack of ability or of confidence. If Pressley can't even motivate his players the rest will be pretty pointless.