Wasps (17 Viewers)

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I know to be fair he did acknowledge it. When SISU do it - abhorrent, morally bankrupt etc etc... CCC do it - a bit shady is the best that can be mustered.

Yea but coming from MMM to the council, that's practically like saying we're getting a divorce.

Just banter

 

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[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I know to be fair he did acknowledge it. When SISU do it - abhorrent, morally bankrupt etc etc... CCC do it - a bit shady is the best that can be mustered.

If you'd care to read, as opposed to dancing around excitedly like Rumpelstiltskin; you'd see I used exactly the same word 'duplicitous' in both contexts. Exactly the same. Still, why allow facts to cloud a good fable, eh?

 

[mattylad]

Is this a porn forum? You seem to think that we are wanking or creaming or getting hard on a CCFC forum. There are much better forums for wanking. Actually the constant stream of bad news relating to CCFC has the opposite effect on me. Anyone got a good price on Viagra?

Hi Guys, just to lets you all know that I wrote an very polite email to Wasps early yesterday morning asking if I could have my gold brick back.

As I pointed out to them, the brick was bought for me 10 years ago in recognition of supporting and following CCFC. The brick was supposed to live in the home of the football club. As the stadium is now owned by Wasps and is no longer the home of my football team, then is seems a reasonable request for its return. I also asked what their plans were for the statue of JH. After all whilst the statue may mean something to the supporters of CCFC I can't see that it will mean a jot to the rugby followers.


Many of this forum have stated how wonderful their PR is. Well just to let you know that over 24 hors since sending the email I have not received so much as an acknowledgement.


In short I have the feeling that they are much like our current owners. They don't give a stuff about us


Rant over

its no less or more our home than it was 10 years ago surely

 

[Ian1779]

If you'd care to read, as opposed to dancing around excitedly like Rumpelstiltskin; you'd see I used exactly the same word 'duplicitous' in both contexts. Exactly the same. Still, why allow facts to cloud a good fable, eh?

Wow - you upgraded from shady to duplicitous. Next you'll be saying you don't approve.. or is that a step too far?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

New jumpers in the SBT shop.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Wow - you upgraded from shady to duplicitous. Next you'll be saying you don't approve.. or is that a step too far?

Given I've already stated it, its be a retrograde step

 

[Jack Griffin]

Looks like you were right, they banked on the council and ACL giving a shit about the club and turns out they don't anymore.

Honestly don't even see the point anymore, nobody with any influence cares about the club. Maybe at one time they genuinely did but it looks like they've all given up now.

I reckon a lot of people still care, but are reacting against the way SISU have played it.. this is my position, I have grown to hate SISU and will never support them in any way, whatever the consequences for CCFC, because I believe CCFC will recover once SISU have gone but will never prosper while they're here.

If anyone can convince me otherwise, well go on,. I'm listening.

 

[skybluefred]

Only in your dreams

I think he saw you as competition :laugh:

 

[italiahorse]

No doubt Italia, The Jerker and Council Dave will be praising their brilliant marketing initiative.

The only balls i'd like to see in Jimmys hands are yours.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

its no less or more our home than it was 10 years ago surely

Wait until our logo gets taken off the outside and the seats get replaced. Already had 'Bar 87' changed to 'Bar 67'.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes. I agree. As I've stated on here, that certainly appears duplicitous. But, that comes after two dozen duplicitous statements or actions from SISU ahead of that time. Negotiation is all about trust. I kept on saying on here - what happens if SISU's gamble with our club backfires? Well, now we know...

The council could not see beyond SISU. Had they done as you advocate to others and 'seen the bigger picture', they would have realised that SISU were not going to be the club's owners forever and that a Ricoh stakeholding would have got them out sooner.

 

[torchomatic]

Good old Howard and Hilda.

New jumpers in the SBT shop.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

The council could not see beyond SISU. Had they done as you advocate to others and 'seen the bigger picture', they would have realised that SISU were not going to be the club's owners forever and that a Ricoh stakeholding would have got them out sooner.

That's a cheery message you should be aiming at Grendy and his advocates. He assured everyone who has any idea to the contrary that the football club was the only shown in town; and roundly scoffed when I asked him what would happen if SISU's plan went awry and a rugby club came to town...

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That's a cheery message you should be aiming at Grendy and his advocates. He assured everyone who has any idea to the contrary that the football club was the only shown in town; and roundly scoffed when I asked him what would happen if SISU's plan went awry and a rugby club came to town...

Grendo has said more than his fair share of silly things. Although a part of me would rather be proven wrong wanting something in the club's interests than proven right predicting a franchise take all the spoils. Just think of that thread on the Wasps forum titled 'It's all ours!' to keep you warm at night.

 

[stupot07]

http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s96.htm?98,14981894

It's all about the MONEY, MONEY, MONEY

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s96.htm?98,14981894

It's all about the MONEY, MONEY, MONEY

Most of the posts in there make you feel sick, but they should also be a rude awakening for people who think we can expect a constructive time with Wasps. There is however one post which sticks out:

'The primary reason I wont be going to Ricoh is that Wasps are not a Midlands club and shouldnt be playing there but I also think the way deal has been done stinks.'

At least one of them has a sense of decency.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Grendo has said more than his fair share of silly things. Although a part of me would rather be proven wrong wanting something in the club's interests than proven right predicting a franchise take all the spoils. Just think of that thread on the Wasps forum titled 'It's all ours!' to keep you warm at night.

But equally, and I grow tired of making this point, its only 'theirs' because SISU refused to negotiate candidly and secure it in the way Wasps have. It should belong to an football club representing Coventry. Clearly.

I don't care if I'm right or wrong; but I kept harping on about this doomsday scenario, with disgust at the casual nature CCFC was being used as a bargaining chip.

Some Wasps fans are happy because - if you lift the veil of jealously - you can see they have every right to be. Its a great facility, with revenues and prospects.

What was it Labovich called it? Dingy? Its all fucking disgusting; that's what it is

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

But equally, and I grow tired of making this point, its only 'theirs' because SISU refused to negotiate candidly and secure it in the way Wasps have. It should belong to an football club representing Coventry. Clearly.

I don't care if I'm right or wrong; but I kept harping on about this doomsday scenario, with disgust at the casual nature CCFC was being used as a bargaining chip.

Some Wasps fans are happy because - if you lift the veil of jealously - you can see they have every right to be. Its a great facility, with revenues and prospects.

What was it Labovich called it? Dingy? Its all fucking disgusting; that's what it is

They have every right to be happy that their club has relocated nowhere near to where they live? The only way Wasps got offered this venue on the cheap was because SISU succeeded in distressing ACL to the point that the council and Higgs had to cut their losses. So Derek Richardson should share some of the spoils with Seppala, because it is only thanks to her that he has succeeded in franchising his rugby club.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

They have every right to be happy that their club has relocated nowhere near to where they live? The only way Wasps got offered this venue on the cheap was because SISU succeeded in distressing ACL to the point that the council and Higgs had to cut their losses. So Derek Richardson should share some of the spoils with Seppala, because it is only thanks to her that he has succeeded in franchising his rugby club.

If you read carefully, I put 'some' Wasps fans. Quite deliberately instead of all. Those that are happy, on the forums mentioned - and therefore pertinent to my comment - will be so as they have one of Europe's best stadiums for club rugby, with a broad access to revenues to enable them to grow further still. You've turned a comment relating to those fans 'smug'.at their new acquisition into a debate about those who will be rightfully unhappy about their relocation; and they are obviously two different issues.

Whatever they paid will be a market price, and therefore will be influenced by the distressing process. That's obvious. But it will also have been lowered by the fact they had no genuine bidding competition - which would have driven the price back up. That's the fault of 'freehold-only' Joy, 'new stadium' Tim, and 'dingy offices' Labovitch. I'm not so sure they're due anything at all, being frank

 

[italiahorse]

Most of the posts in there make you feel sick, but they should also be a rude awakening for people who think we can expect a constructive time with Wasps. There is however one post which sticks out:

'The primary reason I wont be going to Ricoh is that Wasps are not a Midlands club and shouldnt be playing there but I also think the way deal has been done stinks.'

At least one of them has a sense of decency.

It's in Wasps interests to keep the football club here.
Both are vulnerable separate but have a chance together.

It was the only deal that could be done as they were the only 'real' interested party.

CCFC and fans need to recognise that the deal is now done, that a new stadium is not achievable on cost alone and need to get Sisu to work with Wasps to get the best deal they can for the football club.

 

[stupot07]

It's in Wasps interests to keep the football club here.
Both are vulnerable separate but have a chance together.

It was the only deal that could be done as they were the only 'real' interested party.

CCFC and fans need to recognise that the deal is now done, that a new stadium is not achievable on cost alone and need to get Sisu to work with Wasps to get the best deal they can for the football club.

Fans also need to recognise that to continue in the medium to long term of a matchday rental only little/no access to additional revenues that we're destined to be a league one club that gets the odd promotion to the championship.. Need to get those 'ambition', 'PL club in waiting', 'sleeping giant' bollocks out of their heads. Not going to happen.

It's not in wasps interests to give access to revenues away, that's exactly why they want the club there, to make money from them to help fund the rugby club.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[italiahorse]

They have every right to be happy that their club has relocated nowhere near to where they live? The only way Wasps got offered this venue on the cheap was because SISU succeeded in distressing ACL to the point that the council and Higgs had to cut their losses. So Derek Richardson should share some of the spoils with Seppala, because it is only thanks to her that he has succeeded in franchising his rugby club.

Wasps have tried for many years to get a home 'where they live' and have not had any success. They went close to finishing altogether only a few years ago.
Only time will tell if this is a successful route for them.

Sisu did indeed distress ACL so if there was a choice of Sisu or 'someone else' it was always going to be 'someone else'.
If I owned the Ricoh there would be no way I would put it in the hands of the incompetent (proven) SISU.
CCFC will never own a stadium in the medium term and will continue to rent for many years to come. You do understand why don't you ?

Wasps may not be ideal but it reality for CCC and it's rate payers it was the only option and it needed to be snapped up.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It's in Wasps interests to keep the football club here.
Both are vulnerable separate but have a chance together.

It was the only deal that could be done as they were the only 'real' interested party.

CCFC and fans need to recognise that the deal is now done, that a new stadium is not achievable on cost alone and need to get Sisu to work with Wasps to get the best deal they can for the football club.

SISU wanted it all along, that is why they went to such lengths to distress the business. Of course it's in Wasps' interest to keep the club as a cash cow-but it is not in ours one bit. Financially and symbolically this is a piss take of the highest order and I can't believe any CCFC fans are in favour of staying in the long term. I would rather we have a 2 bob stadium of our own that can be readily expanded than pay Wasps to play in a stadium rebranded for them which was built for us.

It's too insulting.

 

[italiahorse]

Fans also need to recognise that to continue in the medium to long term of a matchday rental only little/no access to additional revenues that we're destined to be a league one club that gets the odd promotion to the championship.. Need to get those 'ambition', 'PL club in waiting', 'sleeping giant' bollocks out of their heads. Not going to happen.

It's not in wasps interests to give access to revenues away, that's exactly why they want the club there, to make money from them to help fund the rugby club.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Surely that depends on what matchday incomes Wasps make available.
If CCFC are not there then they loose all those incomes/profits. With both clubs there they can generate economies of scale and split the costs.
They could if they wanted to, let CCFC have those incomes/profits (incremental) and effectively take for themselves the savings on costs.

In reality Sisu need to work on this instead of continuing the JR and talk of a new stadium.
Maybe, just maybe, this talk is being used in discussions.
In my mind Sisu are incompetent and we will loose this option as well.

 

[italiahorse]

SISU wanted it all along, that is why they went to such lengths to distress the business. Of course it's in Wasps' interest to keep the club as a cash cow-but it is not in ours one bit. Financially and symbolically this is a piss take of the highest order and I can't believe any CCFC fans are in favour of staying in the long term. I would rather we have a 2 bob stadium of our own that can be readily expanded than pay Wasps to play in a stadium rebranded for them which was built for us.

It's too insulting.

You really need to get over it.
CCFC will never even own the 'Timpot' Stadium they will rent it off SISU.
On the evidence so far it will be out of town and the only revenues will be on matchday and a few small conferences.
No shopping centre like the Ricoh and probable few fans.

 

[stupot07]

Surely that depends on what matchday incomes Wasps make available.
If CCFC are not there then they loose all those incomes/profits. With both clubs there they can generate economies of scale and split the costs.
They could if they wanted to, let CCFC have those incomes/profits (incremental) and effectively take for themselves the savings on costs.

In reality Sisu need to work on this instead of continuing the JR and talk of a new stadium.
Maybe, just maybe, this talk is being used in discussions.
In my mind Sisu are incompetent and we will loose this option as well.

You sound like a politician. It's not going to happen, they might offer to sell some revenues at a profit, but they won't be giving it away. Anyway they give us with one hand they will take away with the other. They're losing £3m per annum, ACL roughly makes £750k per annum. They don't want to fund their losses, they know we're over a barrel, they hold all the cards.

If we leave they will just change the pitch to 3G and diversify.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Wasps have tried for many years to get a home 'where they live' and have not had any success. They went close to finishing altogether only a few years ago.
Only time will tell if this is a successful route for them.

Sisu did indeed distress ACL so if there was a choice of Sisu or 'someone else' it was always going to be 'someone else'.
If I owned the Ricoh there would be no way I would put it in the hands of the incompetent (proven) SISU.
CCFC will never own a stadium in the medium term and will continue to rent for many years to come. You do understand why don't you ?

Wasps may not be ideal but it reality for CCC and it's rate payers it was the only option and it needed to be snapped up.

I suggest you look at the structure of Wasps' business before painting them as whiter than white. Wasps Holdings, owned by a pyramid of other holding companies much the same way as CCFC is. The council decided that 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend', pure and simple. Had they gone to SISU and said there was a deal to be done, it would have been done.

A lot can happen in 5 years Italia. You may be rubbing your hands at the thought of CCFC giving Wasps a nice bonus but for me there is no prosperous future at the Ricoh now. If Wasps wanted that they should've given up their bid for the Higgs stake and allowed the club to acquire it in a 50:50 venture that really would have benefitted both clubs.

We must have our own ground.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

You sound like a politician. It's not going to happen, they might offer to sell some revenues at a profit, but they won't be giving it away. Anyway they give us with one hand they will take away with the other. They're losing £3m per annum, ACL roughly makes £750k per annum. They don't want to fund their losses, they know we're over a barrel, they hold all the cards.

If we leave they will just change the pitch to 3G and diversify.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

That's an analysis if their business position that's childishly simple. Also a remarkably cynical view of their view of CCFC. You think they'd shaft the club with high rent and no revenues, resulting in small gates, more relegation and us moving out? Or would they structure a deal that would enable the football club to flourish - from which they too would benefit? You don't know, do you?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I suggest you look at the structure of Wasps' business before painting them as whiter than white. Wasps Holdings, owned by a pyramid of other holding companies much the same way as CCFC is. The council decided that 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend', pure and simple. Had they gone to SISU and said there was a deal to be done, it would have been done.

A lot can happen in 5 years Italia. You may be rubbing your hands at the thought of CCFC giving Wasps a nice bonus but for me there is no prosperous future at the Ricoh now. If Wasps wanted that they should've given up their bid for the Higgs stake and allowed the club to acquire it in a 50:50 venture that really would have benefitted both clubs.

We must have our own ground.

That's conjecture. You have no proof whatsoever that SISU would have taken any such deal. Zero proof. What we have seen though, as fact, is them moving stance time and time again

 

[martcov]

That's an analysis if their business position that's childishly simple. Also a remarkably cynical view of their view of CCFC. You think they'd shaft the club with high rent and no revenues, resulting in small gates, more relegation and us moving out? Or would they structure a deal that would enable the football club to flourish - from which they too would benefit? You don't know, do you?

I would think that they are well aware of our owner's business tactics and that it won't be that simple. How can you structure a deal with SISU at the moment? They would be dealing with sharks, so I think nothing will happen for a while. They are in the driving seat and SISU are up s--t creek. Let SISU either come up with the P.i.t.S. Stadium or come crawling back. Wasps will then dictate the terms - allowing the club to survive, but not much more. Our only hope is that SISU see the writing on the wall and start looking for a way out of CCFC.

 

[spider_ricoh]

Hi Guys, just to lets you all know that I wrote an very polite email to Wasps early yesterday morning asking if I could have my gold brick back.

As I pointed out to them, the brick was bought for me 10 years ago in recognition of supporting and following CCFC. The brick was supposed to live in the home of the football club. As the stadium is now owned by Wasps and is no longer the home of my football team, then is seems a reasonable request for its return. I also asked what their plans were for the statue of JH. After all whilst the statue may mean something to the supporters of CCFC I can't see that it will mean a jot to the rugby followers.


Many of this forum have stated how wonderful their PR is. Well just to let you know that over 24 hors since sending the email I have not received so much as an acknowledgement.


In short I have the feeling that they are much like our current owners. They don't give a stuff about us


Rant over

They own the Ricoh legitimately but it is still our home too. Leave your brick where it is.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I would think that they are well aware of our owner's business tactics and that it won't be that simple. How can you structure a deal with SISU at the moment? They would be dealing with sharks, so I think nothing will happen for a while. They are in the driving seat and SISU are up s--t creek. Let SISU either come up with the P.i.t.S. Stadium or come crawling back. Wasps will then dictate the terms - allowing the club to survive, but not much more. Our only hope is that SISU see the writing on the wall and start looking for a way out of CCFC.

I think they'll be cautious of the club's owners, and rightfully so, but why would they starve the football club of revenues to keep it at its current third-tier, sub-10K gate level? Business practise would suggest you encourage your tenant to grow - as that in turn brings more money to the landlord.

There are many with a hatred of Wasps, I understand that, but equally sports fans are sports fans. CCFC back as a championship club with 18K+ gates not only brings the stadiums owners direct income, it's a bigger sports-mad customer base to market to on any given Saturday to get them back to watch some egg-chasing on Sunday. This makes much more business sense than slash-and-burn

 

[stupot07]

That's an analysis if their business position that's childishly simple. Also a remarkably cynical view of their view of CCFC. You think they'd shaft the club with high rent and no revenues, resulting in small gates, more relegation and us moving out? Or would they structure a deal that would enable the football club to flourish - from which they too would benefit? You don't know, do you?

You're such a pompous twat sometimes.

Do I think they will charge us high rent - no
Do I think they will give us access to revenues - no.

They won't want to bleed us dry but they will want to make money from us being there, otherwise it's pointless us being there.

They will not give us access to enough revenues to make us flourish, for a start a large proportion of that is currently tied up with compass (I.e. F&B's), so what else can they give us? Car park (which is peanuts)? What else? We already buy and sell on hospitality?

If this was all so easy why didn't ACL offer us said deal?

No I don't know, no one does. But business is business and we know that business has a tendency to kick our club in the knackers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[martcov]

I think they'll be cautious of the club's owners, and rightfully so, but why would they starve the football club of revenues to keep it at its current third-tier, sub-10K gate level? Business practise would suggest you encourage your tenant to grow - as that in turn brings more money to the landlord.

There are many with a hatred of Wasps, I understand that, but equally sports fans are sports fans. CCFC back as a championship club with 18K+ gates not only brings the stadiums owners direct income, it's a bigger sports-mad customer base to market to on any given Saturday to get them back to watch some egg-chasing on Sunday. This makes much more business sense than slash-and-burn

Medium term it may make more sense to keep CCFC on a slow burner in the hope that SISU get the message and go. I would be keeping CCFC as a possible purchase when SISU give up. They were shrewd enough to get the Ricoh on the cheap, maybe, if they play their cards right, they could get CCFC at the bottom of the cycle - e.g. as a mediocre league 2 club. Who knows? But Wasps are in the driving seat and the worse things get on the pitch for CCFC, the higher the chances are that SISU pull out. The return for the investors seems to be getting further away.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

You're such a pompous twat sometimes.

Do I think they will charge us high rent - no
Do I think they will give us access to revenues - no.

They won't want to bleed us dry but they will want to make money from us being there, otherwise it's pointless us being there.

They will not give us access to enough revenues to make us flourish, for a start a large proportion of that is currently tied up with compass (I.e. F&B's), so what else can they give us? Car park (which is peanuts)? What else? We already buy and sell on hospitality?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

I'm pompous as you're so fucking stupid. Previous losses plus ACL income equals new net position is frankly absurd. Have you thought about offering that fella Sugar your insightful acumen? And what's worse, you've had the temerity to repeat this equation repeatedly; as if repetition will afford it's pigletty ignorance an enhanced level of dignity