torchomatic
Well-Known Member
So, the club doesn't need greater revenue then? You're not going to moan if we can only afford free transfers, has-beens and kids?
Again 365 days revenue blah blah (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter AFCCOVENTRY
- Start date
Everyone knows that the Club needs more revenue. Only problem is that we are homeless. Even if SISU build a small stadium somewhere, i cannot See it competing with the Ricoh and cannot imagine how it will generate enough revenue to repay the Investment. What have SISU planned as a Source of revenue other than the bowl? Plus how far have we got with the plans so far? Quite frankly, we need Wasps. They own a stadium in our home town - which we will never do. question is, will SISU sell to them or let them buy a share in CCFC? They don't have any real option, but to do a deal.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Have SISU even delivered the business plan to how this will work? Surely they'd do this before they even started looking for land or commissioning designs?
I dont remember one being presented.
Nick
Administrator
Delivered to who?
Well, I hope they have delivered one to their investors. Up until now, despite all their meetings and bravado on the subject, they have not shared the slightest detail with anyone else - including the fans, who will be the paying customers at the bowl. I suspect, that they don't have one, they don't have a site, they don't have investors and that they are up shit creek without a paddle. Just my opinion. Prove me wrong Tim.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You dont think we need proof this is a good idea? Are you going to support it with no idea if its the right move for the club? I thought we were smarter than that as a group of fans.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
What's wrong with the statement. It's absolutely true that CCFC need access to other revenues, particularly as the support isn't very good.
SISU need to deliver against that statement.
SISU need to deliver against that statement.
The Penguin
Well-Known Member
covmark
Well-Known Member
Tell that to the people who were creaming over Michaels offer without any proof of anything.
Weren't you one of those?
I am not privy to such information and you already know why I think that, we've cut the squad to the bone, kids, many loans( multiple of which clearly weren't even picked but came free with a player sale) the majority of our signings free transfers who were injury prone, or had attitude problems, we've sold or let go all our best players without replacement, with the exception of a couple of signings the rest have all been desperation cheap as chips whatever we can get. Our signings have not been those of a club with a top league one budget who've just sold a player for 3 mill.
We had one of the top wage bills a couple of years ago sure, but then we cut it by 50/60% (which they told us) and we have very clearly significantly cut it again this year yet we still have one of the top "budgets" I don't believe it.
Then there is the fact he uses the word budget and words like we can, they've never actually said we have one of the top wage bills in the league. A budget is something you can spend, not something you have/are spending.
The club does need more revenue of course it does, but we all know the last couple of years of sisu doing what they can to improve revenue has actually meant a massive massive drop in revenue and it's all been completely predictable and the way things are going revenue will continue to fall.
The club needs all their revenue has always been an accurate soundbite, but they have never provided a path to get it that actually makes sence and provides a financial benefit, in fact as we all know they have done the complete utter opposite and the new stadium doesn't change that, the numbers dont work.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Yeah and therein lies the problem. We can all make statements. Means Jack shit. Do any of us honestly believe Sisu will deliver? Hand on heart?
Big fat no from me. Talk is cheap. Anyone can say anything (as has been proved with the 3 weeks, 3 weeks, 3 weeks, announced shortly bollocks).
It's fine saying we need more revenue, but that doesn't address the fact that we are homeless and nothing seems to be happening on any new stadium front.
What we need to deal with is the here and now. We have a deal for 4 years and Wasps want us here and dare I say it, probably need us here too. We need to make this work.
Do any of us believe that if we were to build a new stadium that it would be 1: Even half decent and 2: Be very close to Coventry?
I think if we did build a new stadium it would probably be a bargain basement, budget stadium in the middle of nowhere that hardly anyone will want to use outside of football anyway.
Talk of a new stadium and revenues is just fantasy at the moment. Not holding my breath on when Sisu are going to deliver.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Business plan? :laugh:
Sbarcher
Well-Known Member
Getting so fed up of all of this total bullcrap. Almost every thread turns into a rant about the stadium, SISU, Wasps etc.
When are SISU going to give us a timeline with their plans for the land sale, stadium design, milestones etc.
If they are not going ahead with their new stadium - bloody well say so and tell us what the plans are.
Give us something to buy into, tell us what we can anticipate, take us along with your aspirations, but for goodness sake don't keep us in the dark and exclude us.
You have already lost thousands of fans - now pleeeeeaaase come clean and give us the real facts - not the spin which continues to drain our hope and passion ...... phew, rant over.
When are SISU going to give us a timeline with their plans for the land sale, stadium design, milestones etc.
If they are not going ahead with their new stadium - bloody well say so and tell us what the plans are.
Give us something to buy into, tell us what we can anticipate, take us along with your aspirations, but for goodness sake don't keep us in the dark and exclude us.
You have already lost thousands of fans - now pleeeeeaaase come clean and give us the real facts - not the spin which continues to drain our hope and passion ...... phew, rant over.
Voice_of_Reason
Well-Known Member
As a marketing man I would say the answer is to look at ways of increasing revenue during the season. How many other clubs who rent their grounds look for revenue 365 days a year. Be inventive Mr Waggot !!!!
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
You see I do have a problem with statements like this from the club and its representatives, but not the premise that the club needs income to succeed.
Firstly the "60p in the £ goes to SP to build the team". Simply untrue.
Firstly the SCMP is a calculation setting a limit on what you can spend on certain players it is not an absolute or even all inclusive. Certain players are not even included in the calculation, and the calculation takes no account of other overheads and costs. In making the statement it also assumes that the club policy is to pay it even if making losses - if the policy is to live within means then the amount to be paid out on wages is affected and the budget of 60p in £ could be unachievable.
Further most income at the club suffers VAT, so pay a pound in and 17p goes to the government on most sales/income/turnover.
Not only that but the SCMP calculation includes the deduction of direct costs. For example F&B income would have deducted from it the costs of supply (purchase cost at least) so the amount included in the calculation would be sale less cost (all after deducting VAT) x 60%. Other sources of income would be affected similarly
So what income does the club get now (whether it rents or owns the stadium) :
Match tickets
Hospitality packages
Match Box packages
TV money
League prize money
Shirt sponsorship
player sponsorship
corner kick sponsorship
other direct sponsorship and promotions
retail sales in the shop
programs etc
advertising in programs
a share of F&B income in concourse
advertising on pitch side boards.
........ surely the same items as most or all other clubs
what they do not get is:
stadium naming rights
car park income
income from meeting rooms, restaurants, bars and conference rooms (am leaving out the exhibition halls as any new ground or most other clubs are unlikely to have that)
...... items that most/all other clubs get I think
However even at the Ricoh they could buy in the car parking, meeting rooms and conference rooms and resell. The club do get to resell packages including food and get a cut of F&B income on the concourse as it stands now. They could do a deal on the bars and restaurants for events they could organise. So what we are talking about is the stadium naming rights ...... on a new stadium in L1 is that really going to run in to millions a year?
It is good the club is reaching out to the business community, it needs to repair a lot of bridges, however I suspect there will be similar schmoozing going on via Wasps who come with no past baggage in this area and can perhaps target Warwickshire and West Midlands more effectively
Final thought. It would seem to me that there is going to be an onslaught of community based programs, not only are CCFC planning to increase this but I would suspect there will be a similar set of programs backed by Wasps (and perhaps CRFC) especially with the Rugby world cup coming and the funding made available by the RFU.
The move to engage with business leaders is the right thing to do, the community stuff is good too, (both a little late I feel ) but it does irritate that we are continually pointed in a particular direction and if you look behind that direction it isn't quite what has been said.
Firstly the "60p in the £ goes to SP to build the team". Simply untrue.
Firstly the SCMP is a calculation setting a limit on what you can spend on certain players it is not an absolute or even all inclusive. Certain players are not even included in the calculation, and the calculation takes no account of other overheads and costs. In making the statement it also assumes that the club policy is to pay it even if making losses - if the policy is to live within means then the amount to be paid out on wages is affected and the budget of 60p in £ could be unachievable.
Further most income at the club suffers VAT, so pay a pound in and 17p goes to the government on most sales/income/turnover.
Not only that but the SCMP calculation includes the deduction of direct costs. For example F&B income would have deducted from it the costs of supply (purchase cost at least) so the amount included in the calculation would be sale less cost (all after deducting VAT) x 60%. Other sources of income would be affected similarly
So what income does the club get now (whether it rents or owns the stadium) :
Match tickets
Hospitality packages
Match Box packages
TV money
League prize money
Shirt sponsorship
player sponsorship
corner kick sponsorship
other direct sponsorship and promotions
retail sales in the shop
programs etc
advertising in programs
a share of F&B income in concourse
advertising on pitch side boards.
........ surely the same items as most or all other clubs
what they do not get is:
stadium naming rights
car park income
income from meeting rooms, restaurants, bars and conference rooms (am leaving out the exhibition halls as any new ground or most other clubs are unlikely to have that)
...... items that most/all other clubs get I think
However even at the Ricoh they could buy in the car parking, meeting rooms and conference rooms and resell. The club do get to resell packages including food and get a cut of F&B income on the concourse as it stands now. They could do a deal on the bars and restaurants for events they could organise. So what we are talking about is the stadium naming rights ...... on a new stadium in L1 is that really going to run in to millions a year?
It is good the club is reaching out to the business community, it needs to repair a lot of bridges, however I suspect there will be similar schmoozing going on via Wasps who come with no past baggage in this area and can perhaps target Warwickshire and West Midlands more effectively
Final thought. It would seem to me that there is going to be an onslaught of community based programs, not only are CCFC planning to increase this but I would suspect there will be a similar set of programs backed by Wasps (and perhaps CRFC) especially with the Rugby world cup coming and the funding made available by the RFU.
The move to engage with business leaders is the right thing to do, the community stuff is good too, (both a little late I feel ) but it does irritate that we are continually pointed in a particular direction and if you look behind that direction it isn't quite what has been said.
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
365 days revenue is a great soundbyte but to have any meaning we need to know what figures we're talking about. I'm sure the accounts for ACL are avaialble and have been scruitinised on here so it shouldn't be too hard to see how much it would be if we had ownership of the Ricoh. Of course we'd need to deduct our rent from any ACL figures as you'd assume we wouldn't be paying that if we owned the place.
You also have to consider that the vast majority of other clubs don't have the facilities the Ricoh does to use on non-matchdays. So how much are those other clubs bringing in as non-matchday revenue. Once we know those figures you can compare that against the costs of a new ground. If for example those incomes are only worth £100K but the finance for a new stadium is going to cost £1m a year then it would seem to make more sense to push for a good long term rental deal at the Ricoh, reverse those figures and a new stadium is a no brainer.
The problem with SISU is they only speak in soundbytes, give us some detail. Show people a business plan that supports their stated aims and they might find they get some support.
You also have to consider that the vast majority of other clubs don't have the facilities the Ricoh does to use on non-matchdays. So how much are those other clubs bringing in as non-matchday revenue. Once we know those figures you can compare that against the costs of a new ground. If for example those incomes are only worth £100K but the finance for a new stadium is going to cost £1m a year then it would seem to make more sense to push for a good long term rental deal at the Ricoh, reverse those figures and a new stadium is a no brainer.
The problem with SISU is they only speak in soundbytes, give us some detail. Show people a business plan that supports their stated aims and they might find they get some support.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
What a stupid thing to say.
MO's offer is history.
SISU building a new stadium is apparently the future. You might not be interested in the clubs future but I am.
I'm sorry if i touched a raw nerve by asking questions of SISU but selling it to the fans is the very first thing they should have done and producing some or any sort of a business plan would be stage 1, not an artist impression, not searching for land. Have they done this?
covmark
Well-Known Member
I know his offer is history, but it just shows you only want proof when it doesn't fit your way of thinking. When people were asking Michael questions you were shouting them down.
Sisu aren't building a new stadium, I think we all know that.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Would also add that the lists of incomes available and what could be done to get others have always been available to CCFC at the Ricoh 365 days a year
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Of course I shouted them down. MO is just a fan who was doing everything he could and alot more than anyone else to facilitate a return. I didn't actually have a problem with the questions, it was the manner that they were delivered in and the mockery that followed from certain "fans" because he wasn't in a position to answer at that moment in time. It was childish and pathetic behaviour and the same people asking the questions were not asking questions of SISU on any platform and then hiding behind limp wristed excuses why they didn't why pleading impartiality.
It may have escaped your notice but SISU are our owners and as a paying customer I have aright to ask questions of them and I will. If you don't see it that way, fine.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
According to Eastwood Wasps needed it or they would have gone bankrupt
lift tower
Member
But wimbledon rent their ground from kingstonian dont they? Maybe city could do a similiar deal with Wasps. ;-)
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
If the rumours of them needing 25K a game are anywhere near accurate there has to be a fair chance they'll be going bankrupt anyway.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Of course it won't be. The Ricoh is a high profile venue, entertaining 2nd tier football in a prominent location at the time it was signed. Fisher's bowl in invisible Brandon, hosting 4th tier football to an ever-dwindling fan-base would be lucky to generate £100K. Look towards Colchester's sub-£200K for a much more accurate estimate
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Like demanding an 'average League One rent'; when they didn't enjoy an average League One venue, and weren't interested in a rental deal in any case? You're right. We are where we are because they've been speaking bollocks and doing the exact opposite; that's the behaviour that's opened the door for the current mess. When will they learn that this behaviour has to cease?
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
“The simplest way of looking at it is that I can give 60p in every £1 we generate to Steven Pressley to put on the pitch,”
CAN, Not WILL. If it was "WILL, SP would have had the money for a proper promotion push this year !
Imagine 60% of Clarke and Wilson sales and Arsenal ticket sales
Why have we ended up with Bournemouths 3rd choice keeper and more loans than Wonga !
CAN, Not WILL. If it was "WILL, SP would have had the money for a proper promotion push this year !
Imagine 60% of Clarke and Wilson sales and Arsenal ticket sales
Why have we ended up with Bournemouths 3rd choice keeper and more loans than Wonga !
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
yea didn't really think one that through did I, although we won't go down to the fourth tier despite your best wishes. Despite our recent demise we're still a biggish name in English football, at least in comparison with Colchester who only get 3.5k fans. I don't have any experience is such deals but I'd be surprised if its as low as your estimate, maybe a a better estimate would be 200-400k a year depending on how our attendances and division status is looking.
It's a pointless conversation anyway the details of what it would be until it becomes a reality which even if it is won't be for some way further down the line, the point that was being being made initially is it was revenue we are missing out on.
although I'm not sure what entertaining football you're talking about. :thinking about: