Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I don't think you appreciate that to some your club is just plain not welcome and dressing it up as something other than what it plainly is makes no difference.
Has anyone got any updates from the SBT meeting tonight? (11 Viewers)
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I don't think you appreciate that to some your club is just plain not welcome and dressing it up as something other than what it plainly is makes no difference.
I don't think what sisu did was franchising, wasps I'm alot less sure on, but really does it matter what you call it. we all know what sisu did and we all know what wasps have done and we can judge or not judge accordingly.
I can understand why he doesn't think it's franchising because it's very different from something like buying wimbledon, moving the club, renaming the club completely and changing the badge etc. Buying a club in order to take their place in the league with what is pretty much a different club is franchising. Wasps haven't done that imo, but I don't see it's something worth debating, if you want to call it franchising do so.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
MK Dons are a franchise of the old Wimbledon. Coventry City aren't a franchise of anything. Simple.
Shitting on the established fan base in London seems to rest well with you.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I will. As you say it doesn't matter what buzz word you use for the situation. The reality is a team has been picked up and dropped 85 miles from it's previous home and 100 from its natural one. I'm not sure you'd be so wishy washy if SISU decided to move to Wycombe.
I would have a much stronger opinion of course I would, you and I have discussed this in the past though and you weren't smart enough to have a reasonable conversation with then, so it's pointless us doing so again. blah blah hypocrite you squeal.
Sinner from Pinner
New Member
We've been tenants of Wycombe Wanderers for 12 years, it's fine but the club couldn't make any money.
Does that sound familiar? As two clubs go we're not that different.
There are a lot of posters on this board desperate for a permanent home for CCFC. I know you would have loved your owners to buy the Ricoh but they didn't.
I've said it before but I genuinely hope that CCFC are treated better by Wasps than we were by WWFC, because it's in both our interests to have a venue as full as we can keep it.
Does that sound familiar? As two clubs go we're not that different.
There are a lot of posters on this board desperate for a permanent home for CCFC. I know you would have loved your owners to buy the Ricoh but they didn't.
I've said it before but I genuinely hope that CCFC are treated better by Wasps than we were by WWFC, because it's in both our interests to have a venue as full as we can keep it.
M&B Stand
Well-Known Member
No offence or anything, but you're not welcome and never will be in Coventry.
The only people that are 'open' to the idea are those whose hatred of the CCFC owners has turned into a hatred for the football club and therefore they love to see them shafted, as had been the case by Wasps purchase of the stadium built for the football club.
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Don't take it personally Sinner there are a few on here that don't understand "I only want to watch my team" not that I'll be watching your team unless you get relegated and Cov promoted. However I don't wish you any ill.
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torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Weird. You and your tag partner are always having a go at the Sixfielders who said they were just going to support their team.
It's not really true, the vast majority are ambivalent, a significant chunk are excited, a very small minority are very angry with wasps. It had nothing to do with them though, weather you completely blame sisu or blame the council and sisu, it had nothing to do with wasps. Nearly all the Coventry fans are upset we can't now own what should be our stadium, but anger to wasps is pointless and misplaced.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Didn't stop many on here having a go at NTFC and hoping they were relegated, etc. And I'm just about smart enough to use the correct "whether". 
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Will someone explain that I was taking the piss note the exclamation marks and who was I taking the piss out of ? Well it wasn't Sinner! Also can somebody tell the c**t that I will not answer him even if I'm doing it in a roundabout way now
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Didn't stop many on here having a go at NTFC and hoping they were relegated, etc. And I'm just about smart enough to use the correct "whether".
It did not stop people doing that, I fully agree, that was misplaced too, I wasn't one of them though, in fact in the same way I'm defending wasps here I defended Northampton.
Oh no I made a grammar error on the internet.
Sinner from Pinner
New Member
Can I say I appreciate the "No Offence" and "Don't take it personally", none taken and I never do.
Not only do I wan't to watch my team, it's more than that, I wan't them to survive as a professional club. A couple of seasons ago that was what was at stake on the last match.
I don't expect you all to convert to rugby but the fact is you don't have to, as I said we've co-existed with football cubs for 20 years.
Not only do I wan't to watch my team, it's more than that, I wan't them to survive as a professional club. A couple of seasons ago that was what was at stake on the last match.
I don't expect you all to convert to rugby but the fact is you don't have to, as I said we've co-existed with football cubs for 20 years.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Totally agree, Wasps moving here is wrong and it can't be dressed up as anything else. I have no idea how anyone could be or claim to be a fan of our club if they are happy about Wasps being the new owners of ACL just to shaft Sisu. I freely admit that I'm no fan of Sisu but the Wasps move hasn't just shafted Sisu it's shafted our club too, the one they're supposed to be fellow supporters of.
Nick
Administrator
To be fair it is harsh to say as fans they aren't welcome , I assume you mean Wasps as a club?
If their fans want to travel, then fair play to them.
but no one is happy about it are they? there is a massive difference though between not being pleased that CCFC can now not buy ACL. and considering ourselves at war with the evil wasps, I think we all know this deal has been bad news for our club in the medium/long term, but we were screwed by sisu, not wasps.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
And a council that helped them.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Should their fans travels that's the question?
Astute
Well-Known Member
I live 200 miles away from where my club plays. That is my choice. Many Wasps supporters now live 100 miles away from where their club will play. Not their choice. I am angry with CCC. I am angry with SISU. I am pissed off that Wasps have got what should have been our home. We are now homeless. I am not going to be happy for Wasps not being homeless after 20 years without having a home. I feel sorry for the Wasps supporters that won't be able to travel so far for each home game. No malice directed at Wasps supporters at all. It isn't their fault that they have ended up in Coventry.
I don't mind if anyone disagrees with my views. But if you do I hope that you would be happy if our clubs owners in the future manage to buy a stadium on the cheap that is 100 miles away from Coventry. After all we wouldn't be homeless anymore.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Are they able to travel? Much bigger question for me.
Nick
Administrator
If they want to. It isn't their fault is it?
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
No not the fans fault but guess its their choice to travel but they shouldn't have a choice to make imo.
Sure wasps fans have every right to be furious with wasps if they wish and we have every right to be furious with sisu and the council if we wish. it doesn't make much sense though for us to be angry with wasps (unless it's on behalf of their fans, rather than because they have our stadium).
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
I don't hate the football club and I don't resent Wasps being here so you thats your opinion.
I do hate Sisu for trying to get the stadium cheap and not realising that other parties may be interested.
I do believe that people need to move on and that Sisu need to get a deal for the football club whilst Wasps are receptive.
I do believe that the best option would have been that ACL was split 50% between CCFC and Wasps but that also has been messed up.
I would hazard a guess that local businesses are hoping that Wasps are successful but also hope that CCFC remain here.
I do see a few planning applications approved for private land around the Ricoh and I guess they are waiting for a bit of stability at the Ricoh.
rondog1973
Well-Known Member
Disagree. Had Sisu actually bought the Ricoh, "We" would not necessarily be any the better for it. Once again somebody falls into the trap of thinking Sisu "are" the club, and will always act in it's best interests.
If our club was a movie character, we'd be the child from the Exorcist. Until we are rid of the owners, things will never change for the better.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
IMHO the success of Wasps move relies on people from Warwickshire and West Midlands attending because the majority of their fans will not be travelling from London next season.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Even when they are gone it won't get any better. No one is going to want to buy the club anyway now, especially without a ground, or any prospect of ever having one. We will forever be a yo-yo team between league 1 and league 2 now, surviving on pathetic ticket sales alone. Still, as long as sisu got shafted then who cares about anything else!
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
I think we are looking at things from different perspectives and we are talking about Rugby football and Football. One is far bigger than the other and they operate differently tbf.
I doubt you would see a football club do what WASP have done and moreover since the Wimbledon/MK Dons saga that loop hole has been closed up. So we would not have CCFC playing in any new stadium in say, London.
It's different for WASP. Clearly being based in a large city like Coventry, over time they will of course be trading their very own support from one base to the new base. They will succeed in that I'm sure and be a very successful Rugby club here. Good luck to them I bear no anger towards them.
What I suggest most people are angry about is the way the shenanigans went on behind the scenes and we ended up with CCFC losing any right to ownership of 'their' stadium. That can't be right can it? Yes the current owners, referred commonly as SISU did not help their cause one bit but the council really did put the boot in where it hurt by completing a deal they did not bring to the football clubs table, either to SISU or even other interested parties that could have had influence in the proceedings, ensuring transparency.
Those could have been the likes of Elliot, who had approached the council and ACL previously with Hoffman to try and wrench the club from SISU's hand.
The council acted without due care and a thorough thought process. If they simply hanged their hat on the fact WASP will and have promised the need for CCFC to remain a tenant, then they were not listening to repeated commands that the football club needs to own it's stadium and income streams for sustainability?
JS bemoaned the 'freehold' concept was required but if you are offering a 250 year lease then that is virtually of an equal level for the purposes that CCFC needed. It was therefore crucial this information should have been shared, before any thought of accepting a Rugby club from elsewhere to displace the communities 125 year old football club from their home.
Unless someone knows different to those facts then I will remain angry as hell with the council dim wits that helped bring this about. For those that simply blame SISU for all our ills you are not wrong but on this one they can't be blamed for something they had no knowledge of or given a chance to participate in that process.
I doubt you would see a football club do what WASP have done and moreover since the Wimbledon/MK Dons saga that loop hole has been closed up. So we would not have CCFC playing in any new stadium in say, London.
It's different for WASP. Clearly being based in a large city like Coventry, over time they will of course be trading their very own support from one base to the new base. They will succeed in that I'm sure and be a very successful Rugby club here. Good luck to them I bear no anger towards them.
What I suggest most people are angry about is the way the shenanigans went on behind the scenes and we ended up with CCFC losing any right to ownership of 'their' stadium. That can't be right can it? Yes the current owners, referred commonly as SISU did not help their cause one bit but the council really did put the boot in where it hurt by completing a deal they did not bring to the football clubs table, either to SISU or even other interested parties that could have had influence in the proceedings, ensuring transparency.
Those could have been the likes of Elliot, who had approached the council and ACL previously with Hoffman to try and wrench the club from SISU's hand.
The council acted without due care and a thorough thought process. If they simply hanged their hat on the fact WASP will and have promised the need for CCFC to remain a tenant, then they were not listening to repeated commands that the football club needs to own it's stadium and income streams for sustainability?
JS bemoaned the 'freehold' concept was required but if you are offering a 250 year lease then that is virtually of an equal level for the purposes that CCFC needed. It was therefore crucial this information should have been shared, before any thought of accepting a Rugby club from elsewhere to displace the communities 125 year old football club from their home.
Unless someone knows different to those facts then I will remain angry as hell with the council dim wits that helped bring this about. For those that simply blame SISU for all our ills you are not wrong but on this one they can't be blamed for something they had no knowledge of or given a chance to participate in that process.
Sinner from Pinner
New Member
I think Nick Eastwood (one of the good guys by the way) said it himself, the majority will keep their ST this year, although some may not make it to all the games, and will think again next year.
I have had 2 STs for many years, but if I'm going to visit a stadium with 20,000 spare seats every other week, a Season Ticket has got to offer me a major discount!
duffer
Well-Known Member
This Wasps fan certainly doesn't see the move to Coventry as right...
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/09/wasps-coventry-move-london-fans-rugby-union
You might not have had a permanent home, but then I'm guessing that's true for a lot of rugby clubs. More than a few football teams too. You were though undisputably a London club - even your current owner admitted that at the point he bought you. Now you're 100 miles away.
As for the use of the term 'franchise', I can't see what the dispute is. Your owner has bought your brand, and your position in the league, and moved it to another location. (Disenfranchising a number of your current fans to reverse the word!)
And there's actually no guarantee that it's permanent - if it doesn't work out in Coventry and there's an opening back in London do you think for a moment that your owners would choose loyalty to our town over cold, hard cash? Clearly not. That's the nature of franchises, and it's why most fans are absolutely against the concept.
I've nothing personal against Wasps fans, or you SFP. You're clearly a decent chap, as I don't doubt are all Wasps fans. However, I do sincerely hope that the franchise fails and Wasps go back south.
I've got two reasons for this - one is that I honestly think that franchising is morally wrong, and the second is that I think it would be far better for CCFC's long term aims if you weren't here. Forgive me.
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The only people who seem to think it's right are the morons on here. Even Leicester fans I know think the whole thing is disgusting.
rondog1973
Well-Known Member
What I am saying is there is also the misapprehension that Sisu would sell club and stadia on had they acquired both.
Nothing's really changed, only who will prove to be the more benevolent landlord, Wasps or CCC/Higgs ACL.
Sinner from Pinner
New Member
Originally Posted by Sinner from Pinner
I didn't dress it up either way. If you think every professional sports team is a franchise, fine you're probably right.
It's not doubly wrong for Wasps though.
It's wrong for me, as my username suggests I don't live anywhere near Coventry.
It's right though for Wasps for exactly the reason that it IS permanent, Wasps haven't had a permanent home in the professional era.
This Wasps fan certainly doesn't see the move to Coventry as right...
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/201...ns-rugby-union
You might not have had a permanent home, but then I'm guessing that's true for a lot of rugby clubs. More than a few football teams too. You were though undisputably a London club - even your current owner admitted that at the point he bought you. Now you're 100 miles away.
As for the use of the term 'franchise', I can't see what the dispute is. Your owner has bought your brand, and your position in the league, and moved it to another location. (Disenfranchising a number of your current fans to reverse the word!)
And there's actually no guarantee that it's permanent - if it doesn't work out in Coventry and there's an opening back in London do you think for a moment that your owners would choose loyalty to our town over cold, hard cash? Clearly not. That's the nature of franchises, and it's why most fans are absolutely against the concept.
I've nothing personal against Wasps fans, or you SFP. You're clearly a decent chap, as I don't doubt are all Wasps fans. However, I do sincerely hope that the franchise fails and Wasps go back south.
I've got two reasons for this - one is that I honestly think that franchising is morally wrong, and the second is that I think it would be far better for CCFC's long term aims if you weren't here. Forgive me.
Duffer, nothing to forgive.
Do I detect a bit of peace and understanding breaking out?
Yes, agreed we are a London club, we argued the point 'til we were blue in the face, we lost, we will now be a Coventry club..
Yes, agreed we are a franchise by your description, just like any other sports club that's no longer owned by it's members. The difference is that we've moved.
Yes, a lot of Wasps supporters feel disenfranchised (nice, can't quite believe that's the first time I've seen the word used in this context)
Yes, if we move back to London I won't be sad, but by that time it might disenfranchise Coventry folk.
There are clearly no guarantees in this life, I used the word Permanent in response to its use in a post and used it to differentiate between renting and owning.
If we differ though it's on CCFC's long term aims. Now I know I've got no right to comment on them especially on this forum, I don't even really know what they are, but I'm guessing that one of them is to own your own ground preferably the Ricoh. If Wasps do fail they won't disappear back down south as a professional outfit they would fall down the leagues and fold or be absorbed back into the amateur club that still exists in London. Our owners would be left with a facility that they would need to maximise their return on, to me that means either selling to the highest bidder or screwing the remaining tenants either option could be worse than you've got.
Everyone had knowledge that AL was open to sensible offers other than for the unencumbered freehold. It was reported in the press and discussed on here. No great secret. The answer to AL announcing that she would be open to sensible offers should have been " thanks Ann, our offer will be on the table on Monday morning. We realise we won't get an unencumbered freehold, but a 250 lease would be fine". Was it though? Or was it more like " we're building our own stadium and we're not bluffing " or " we're counter-suing Higgs for 250 grand " or " we're taking a JR against you, if necessary up to the European Court "? I would suggest that the " dim wits " are the people who didn't promptly put an offer on the table, not the ones who said we are open to sensible offers.