Council admits Ricoh Arena was not sustainable without CCFC (8 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

Well they did propose a deal that was better for CCC and Higgs than was received from Wasps.

Did they? Any details?

 

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[skybluetony176]

To think that CCC are out of the picture now is naïve. Any talk about a new ground in Coventry means SISU and CCC have to cross paths again so all of this discussion about telling truths are relevant from a credibility perspective. At the moment we cannot trust both parties as far as we can throw them

Well. CCC have publicly stated that they can't refuse a planning application from SISU just because it's SISU despite that very scenario being suggested. They even went as far as suggesting a possible site. So I guess the ball is in SISU's court now to reply. Maybe that's the big announcement coming in the new year?

 

[chiefdave]

Well. CCC have publicly stated that they can't refuse a planning application from SISU just because it's SISU despite that very scenario being suggested. They even went as far as suggesting a possible site. So I guess the ball is in SISU's court now to reply. Maybe that's the big announcement coming in the new year?

Isn't the site they suggested too small? What CCC publicly stated was that they wouldn't break the law when questioned about it by Simon, that's a million miles away from saying they will assist the club in finding a new home in the city. How about Maton puts together a list of 60 acre sites within the city boundary that could be purchased by the club and which they council wouldn't object to having a stadium located at.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Did they? Any details?

They would have bought the loan off YB, thereby removing any risk to taxpayers, offered £4.5million to Higgs(£1.5 million cash, and £4million over 10 years, CCC thought the offer was "significantally above market value"), and extend the lease to 125 years.

That was for just for the 50% Higgs share of course.

Now we have Wasps who have bought the 100% shareholding for about £5.5million, for a 250 year lease, and CCC still on the hook for the loan.

 

[Nick]

Well. CCC have publicly stated that they can't refuse a planning application from SISU just because it's SISU despite that very scenario being suggested. They even went as far as suggesting a possible site. So I guess the ball is in SISU's court now to reply. Maybe that's the big announcement coming in the new year?

Is that the same site that it is apparently already earmarked / planned for housing too?

If he was actually suggesting it as a place for a ground, why not suggest it to CCFC rather than the telegraph?

 

[skybluetony176]

Isn't the site they suggested too small? What CCC publicly stated was that they wouldn't break the law when questioned about it by Simon, that's a million miles away from saying they will assist the club in finding a new home in the city. How about Maton puts together a list of 60 acre sites within the city boundary that could be purchased by the club and which they council wouldn't object to having a stadium located at.

Well if SISU did publicly state that they want CCC to assist them in locating a suitable site within Coventry and CCC refused I would back any campaign group that then put pressure on CCC to accept that request by SISU. So again it's over to SISU to make that request.

Why was the site too small? We have Ryton and use of the AEH centre for the academy. You could argue it's SISU's plan's that are too big and we've been there before. I raise you Arena 2000.

 

[italiahorse]

Isn't the site they suggested too small? What CCC publicly stated was that they wouldn't break the law when questioned about it by Simon, that's a million miles away from saying they will assist the club in finding a new home in the city. How about Maton puts together a list of 60 acre sites within the city boundary that could be purchased by the club and which they council wouldn't object to having a stadium located at.

From experience, I think you'll find that CCFC would normally be talking to the council informally about possible sites. They will advise on it's success, or not.
After this discussion a planning application needs to be made.
The planning officers can put in a recommendation based on meeting normal planning processes but it is down to the Planning Committee (Usually Councillors) to vote.
If they vote against, it can go to appeal, which is out of the Councils control.
Probably not as straight forward as that as there will be Public meetings for feedback and probably on this sort of project more early Government involvement.

 

[Nick]

Isn't the site they suggested too small? What CCC publicly stated was that they wouldn't break the law when questioned about it by Simon, that's a million miles away from saying they will assist the club in finding a new home in the city. How about Maton puts together a list of 60 acre sites within the city boundary that could be purchased by the club and which they council wouldn't object to having a stadium located at.

Including sites that he thinks planning would go through, after all being the planning bloke at the council I am pretty sure he can be confident quoting locations where he knows for a fact even if the council give it the nod other things like highways, local residents and other factors would get it blocked too.

As I said at the time, I can play good cop all of the time and say "yes" to people at work or my daughter but I know full well that my boss or wife would say no anyway. I still look good though don't I

 

[chiefdave]

Why was the site too small?

We are told a 60 acre site is required, that site isn't 60 acres. I would assume, if there actually is any plan, it involves selling off Ryton, not renting the AEHC and moving everything to one site.

It's like going to an estate agent and saying minimum 4 bedrooms and he comes back with details of a 2 bedroom house.

 

[skybluetony176]

Is that the same site that it is apparently already earmarked / planned for housing too?

Earmarked. I hate to point out the obvious but that's not the same as plan's submitted, plans accepted and ground broken. There is an opportunity to develop the site into something else if the appetite is there.

 

[chiefdave]

Earmarked. I hate to point out the obvious but that's not the same as plan's submitted, plans accepted and ground broken. There is an opportunity to develop the site into something else if the appetite is there.

Isn't there a city plan in place which states what type of development is preferred for each area? Of course that doesn't mean automatic refusal but it does make things harder and give the council or local residents grounds to make objections.

 

[Nick]

Earmarked. I hate to point out the obvious but that's not the same as plan's submitted, plans accepted and ground broken. There is an opportunity to develop the site into something else if the appetite is there.

I don't know how far it is has got, just that it is in the process.

Do you really think a football ground would work at that site? Ever been around that area on a normal Monday morning?

 

[Nick]

Isn't there a city plan in place which states what type of development is preferred for each area? Of course that doesn't mean automatic refusal but it does make things harder and give the council or local residents grounds to make objections.

I think that is what it is part of, especially as they are building more and more housing in that area anyway on the old Dunlop grounds.

 

[skybluetony176]

We are told a 60 acre site is required, that site isn't 60 acres. I would assume, if there actually is any plan, it involves selling off Ryton, not renting the AEHC and moving everything to one site.

It's like going to an estate agent and saying minimum 4 bedrooms and he comes back with details of a 2 bedroom house.

Selling off Ryton, a site that RBC have publicly stated won't get change of use approval for anything other than what it's currently being used for is pretty much worthless commercially. Unless Wasps want to buy it.

Plus like I said. I raise you Arena 2000. What's the worst that could possibly happen given SISU are in charge?

 

[skybluetony176]

They would have bought the loan off YB, thereby removing any risk to taxpayers, offered £4.5million to Higgs(£1.5 million cash, and £4million over 10 years, CCC thought the offer was "significantally above market value"), and extend the lease to 125 years.

That was for just for the 50% Higgs share of course.

Now we have Wasps who have bought the 100% shareholding for about £5.5million, for a 250 year lease, and CCC still on the hook for the loan.

How were they going to buy the Yorkshire Bank loan when the YB had already turned down bigger offers than what SISU were proposing?

Didn't they also turn back on the Higgs deal you mention?

 

[lordsummerisle]

How were they going to buy the Yorkshire Bank loan when the YB had already turned down bigger offers than what SISU were proposing?

Didn't they also turn back on the Higgs deal you mention?

That would have been Sisu's problem what price they negotiated with YB, now of course it's the local taxpayers problem, supporting a private enterprise owned by a hedge-fund.

I believe Higgs turned down the proposal.

Would you not say that what was offered was better than what actually transpired?

 

[skybluetony176]

I don't know how far it is has got, just that it is in the process.

Do you really think a football ground would work at that site? Ever been around that area on a normal Monday morning?

Do we play alot of Monday morning games?

Your selling it to me to be honest. It sounds more like HR2 than what SISU are proposing.

 

[skybluetony176]

That would have been Sisu's problem what price they negotiated with YB, now of course it's the local taxpayers problem, supporting a private enterprise owned by a hedge-fund.

I believe Higgs turned down the proposal.

Would you not say that what was offered was better than what actually transpired?

I believe they turned down the payment terms which were proposed after the price was agreed.

 

[italiahorse]

Earmarked. I hate to point out the obvious but that's not the same as plan's submitted, plans accepted and ground broken. There is an opportunity to develop the site into something else if the appetite is there.

They are already building houses the Beake Avenue end and it's still factory units Lockhurst Lane end.

 

[Nick]

Do we play alot of Monday morning games?

Well as you are obviously the expert on everything, why don't you tell me how traffic gets around there already and how much work it would be to resolve it?

 

[Bennets Afro]

How were they going to buy the Yorkshire Bank loan when the YB had already turned down bigger offers than what SISU were proposing?

Didn't they also turn back on the Higgs deal you mention?

The council tried to buy the loan from YB at the same rate Sisu said they would get it for. The bank turned CCC down 3 times before the council paid the full amount

 

[skybluetony176]

Well as you are obviously the expert on everything, why don't you tell me how traffic gets around there already and how much work it would be to resolve it?

The same as it did at HR and at any other ground in a built-up area. There's a template to follow already in place.

What do you know. I do know everything it's about time you started listening

 

[skybluetony176]

The council tried to buy the loan from YB at the same rate Sisu said they would get it for. The bank turned CCC down 3 times before the council paid the full amount

There you have it then. SISU weren't offering an improved deal for anyone. They were offering pie in the sky.

 

[lordsummerisle]

There you have it then. SISU weren't offering an improved deal for anyone. They were offering pie in the sky.

Would have been Sisu's problem not the local taxpayers if they hadn't negotiated a better deal, they may well have been able to do one better than CCC managed, but never know now.

Regardless, there is still the outstanding loan now that CCC are on the hook for.

 

[skybluetony176]

Would have been Sisu's problem not the local taxpayers if they hadn't negotiated a better deal, they may well have been able to do one better than CCC managed, but never know now.

Regardless, there is still the outstanding loan now that CCC are on the hook for.

How would they have negotiated a better deal? Litigation maybe? Or a payment strike? Sorry, can't think of any other negotiation tactics we know SISU to use. Over to you.

 

[Grendel]

How would they have negotiated a better deal? Litigation maybe? Or a payment strike? Sorry, can't think of any other negotiation tactics we know SISU to use. Over to you.

Intellectually tony you are as much out of your depth here as Andy Webster would be in the champions league.

Keep going though - its hilarious looking at your juvenile little asides and thinking you are competing on a level playing field.

 

[skybluetony176]

Intellectually tony you are as much out of your depth here as Andy Webster would be in the champions league.

Keep going though - its hilarious looking at your juvenile little asides and thinking you are competing on a level playing field.

Tell me about the only show in town again? Or how SISU deliberately lost the JR.

At least I add points to debate not just insult people I don't agree with. Insults is hardly the height of intellect is it.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

From the JR. In my view the offer was always doomed, the bank were never going to accept SISU's low offer.

SISU considered that the Bank debt could be purchased for £2m-5m. It was part of
their plan that the debt be purchased – in whole, or at least as to 50%, by them – for
that sum. They were not prepared to offer more. The Heads of Terms supposed that,
the debt having been purchased, it would be entirely written off; although the Council
was sensible to the possibility that SISU might purchase the debt from the Bank
(which had no constraints on the person to whom the loan and mortgage might be
transferred) and use their position as creditor to put further pressure on ACL and thus
the Council.

 

[stupot07]

From the JR. In my view the offer was always doomed, the bank were never going to accept SISU's low offer.

SISU considered that the Bank debt could be purchased for £2m-5m. It was part of
their plan that the debt be purchased – in whole, or at least as to 50%, by them – for
that sum. They were not prepared to offer more. The Heads of Terms supposed that,
the debt having been purchased, it would be entirely written off; although the Council
was sensible to the possibility that SISU might purchase the debt from the Bank
(which had no constraints on the person to whom the loan and mortgage might be
transferred) and use their position as creditor to put further pressure on ACL and thus
the Council.

Unfortunately, that is something that cannot be proved either way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[bigfatronssba]

Tell me about the only show in town again? Or how SISU deliberately lost the JR.

At least I add points to debate not just insult people I don't agree with. Insults is hardly the height of intellect is it.

That's all he does, insults people. Nasty piece of work.

 

[Jack Griffin]

From the JR. In my view the offer was always doomed, the bank were never going to accept SISU's low offer.

SISU considered that the Bank debt could be purchased for £2m-5m. It was part of
their plan that the debt be purchased – in whole, or at least as to 50%, by them – for
that sum. They were not prepared to offer more. The Heads of Terms supposed that,
the debt having been purchased, it would be entirely written off; although the Council
was sensible to the possibility that SISU might purchase the debt from the Bank
(which had no constraints on the person to whom the loan and mortgage might be
transferred) and use their position as creditor to put further pressure on ACL and thus
the Council.

You might almost think that the SISU offer was another way of stringing ACL along in an unsustainable position.. I could imagine SISU still being in negotiations with YB to this day and saying in 3 weeks we expect to make an announcement.... etc.

 

[stupot07]

You might almost think that the SISU offer was another way of stringing ACL along in an unsustainable position.. I could imagine SISU still being in negotiations with YB to this day, 3 weeks and we expect to make an announcement.... etc.

Supposition


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[Bennets Afro]

If it wasn't possible to buy the debt from the bank for so low, then why did CCC try and buy it for the same price that SISU was saying they could get it for?

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Unfortunately, that is something that cannot be proved either way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

The likely outcome is heavily weighted one way though isn't it, seeing as the bank refused much higher offers.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

If it wasn't possible to buy the debt from the bank for so low, then why did CCC try and buy it for the same price that SISU was saying they could get it for?

Maybe to find out if it was possible, they found it wasn't.